First ride with the Archon X1 upgrade!

[TomD]

Ride #4 today. Decided to ride around Lake Sammamish (lake below in this picture), something I had never had the courage to attempt with the stock controller given monster hill to get home.

Starting Voltage: 53.8V (95% battery)
Ending Voltage: 48.3V (60% battery)
Distance: 35 miles
Gain: ~800'
PAS: mostly 1 (switched to 2 on monster hill)

 

[pennybags]

Ride #4 today. Decided to ride around Lake Sammamish (lake below in this picture), something I had never had the courage to attempt with the stock controller given monster hill to get home.

Starting Voltage: 53.8V (95% battery)
Ending Voltage: 48.3V (60% battery)
Distance: 35 miles
Gain: ~800'
PAS: mostly 1 (switched to 2 on monster hill)

You did 35 miles in 35% Battery. That’s .... wow. Your estimated range with your battery pack is close to 80/90 miles. I’m getting slightly Lower numbers because I throttle too (50-60 miles, compared to 30 miles earlier).

@Ayl , @BillyDee4 any updates from you??

This controller is absolutely worth the upgrade.Almost feels like We are breaking laws of physics. Ha ha.

 

[JCofMN]

You did 35 miles in 35% Battery. That’s .... wow. Your estimated range with your battery pack is close to 80/90 miles. I’m getting slightly Lower numbers because I throttle too (50-60 miles, compared to 30 miles earlier).

@Ayl , @BillyDee4 any updates from you??

This controller is absolutely worth the upgrade.Almost feels like We are breaking laws of physics. Ha ha.

Rather than anecdotal seat of the pants impressions of range efficiency, couldn’t you just directly measure it (i.e., WH/mile)?

Possibly an inexpensive 20 dollar watt-hour meter Drone/RC people use to monitor their Lipo pack health/lifetimes would work:

https://www.amazon.com/Watt-Meter-P...s=watt+hour+meter&qid=1595257067&s=hi&sr=1-27


I was thinking of getting one as a check on my GRIN satiator’s amp-hour meter accuracy.

 

[Ayl]

@pennybags I took my new Archon controlled Ultra engine on a spin yesterday, Sunday, to do a proper shake down and here's what happened.

• 13 miles in to a planned 40 mile continuous ride and I break my left pedal. This wasn't the pedal the Ultimate Commuter comes with, it was a different brand and model.
• I ended up turning around and headed home using the thumb throttle. I rarely if ever have used the thumb throttle, but there is no way I'm going to remove it now.
• At the 23 mile mark I swapped batteries. Unfortunately I didn't record/remember the battery charge. I just noticed a slow down about a couple miles out from home. Since I was going to deal with traffic I opted to change to a fresh battery.
• I make it home, and apply the Crank Brothers Stamp 2 pedals. These are the pedals that arrived with my UC. I then hydrate up and go back out.
• I end up doing another 14 miles for a total of 40 miles on the odometer. Back at home the battery voltage on the second pack was at 50, give or take a volt.

I'd say 85% of my riding was done at PAS 1, especially when I'm on a trail. I would bump up to PAS 2 or 3 on a road that typically included a hill. I'm being conscious of my riding speed, and I can tell I'm a little faster primarily on roads that connect me from one trail to another. I know being a little faster and dipping into the need for speed is going to tax the batteries. However, on future rides I'll keep my eye on my battery voltage/level from start to finish to get a more accurate estimate of how much electricity is being used.

I am totally thrilled with my Archon controlled Bafang Ultra.

Does anyone know what the 52v 17.5ah battery bms cutoff is? I think it's at 42 volts, but what's the battery % now that option is available in the settings menu?

 

[TomD]

You did 35 miles in 35% Battery. That’s .... wow. Your estimated range with your battery pack is close to 80/90 miles. I’m getting slightly Lower numbers because I throttle too (50-60 miles, compared to 30 miles earlier).

80 mile range might be generous in my case. First off, I try not to go below 20% with my 48V pack. I've also never monitored voltage before, so hopefully I'm measuring correctly with resting voltages (as opposed to hot off the charger and bike). Let's say I really used closer to 40% just to provide a margin for error. In that case I have 40% left until I hit 20%. But the next 40% is not going to get me as far (not linear). Might be closer to 70 miles range, but that's getting me home up my monster hill. Purely on flats, yes could well be 80+ miles. In any case, I never saw this type of range with my stock controller in the equivalent PAS (2-3).

 

[pennybags]

80 mile range might be generous in my case. First off, I try not to go below 20% with my 48V pack. I've also never monitored voltage before, so hopefully I'm measuring correctly with resting voltages (as opposed to hot off the charger and bike). Let's say I really used closer to 40% just to provide a margin for error. In that case I have 40% left until I hit 20%. But the next 40% is not going to get me as far (not linear). Might be closer to 70 miles range, but that's getting me home up my monster hill. Purely on flats, yes could well be 80+ miles. In any case, I never saw this type of range with my stock controller in the equivalent PAS (2-3).

Gotcha. On a 52V,17ah battery pack with 2300W motor, I am getting average of 60 miles. Formerly I was right around 42/43miles per charge. I ride PAS 2.

Pack 52V, 17Ah	Archon 2300W	Bafang Stock 1000W	Ludicrous 2500W	Archon efficiency over Stock	Archon over Ludicrous
Best case (miles)	60 miles, 14.5wh/mile	43 miles, 21Wh/mile	36 miles, 25 Wh/mile	(21-14.5)/14.5 = 44.5%	(25-14.5)/14.5 = 72%
Worst case (miles)	55 miles , 16Wh/mile	38 miles, 23.3 Wh/mile	28 miles, 31.5Wh/mile	(23.3-16)/16 = 45%	(31.5-16)/16 = 96%

Edit:

45% over stock is just phenomenal. I anticipate that apples to apples (1000W Archon to 1000W Stock) will be even better.. may be north of 50% !


Efficiency over Ludicrous controller is just in a cartoon ludicrous territory... Jesus..

Second edit - ludicrous. ha ha.

 

[TomD]

Ludicrous seems to magnify issues doesn't it? I have an offer from Luna to upgrade my M600 for free but I'm hesitant as it may just magnify the issues I have.

 

[TomW]

As interesting and impressive the extra range is, and I agree it is, maybe 50% is a bit optimistic but I am not sure how to do a proper apples to apples test because the lower pas levels feel more powerful and usable than the standard controllers levels ever were,
When I first got the new controller I did a full assist 28mph average speed, 18 mile ride which I also used to do on full assist on the standard controller and it seemed to have about 25% more range in that scenario. but because I am using the lower pas levels alot more my increase in range will be more than that. It is very hard to quantify and compare to the old controller.
I'm kinda interested in how you guys are finding the other benifits so far?
I mean for me it has totally transformed the bike off road just due to the better modulation and power consistancy.

 

[pennybags]

Ludicrous seems to magnify issues doesn't it? I have an offer from Luna to upgrade my M600 for free but I'm hesitant as it may just magnify the issues I have.

If the new ludicrous is anything like the old, then your deduction is right. It absolutely does magnify the issues.

 

[pennybags]

As interesting and impressive the extra range is, and I agree it is, maybe 50% is a bit optimistic but I am not sure how to do a proper apples to apples test because the lower pas levels feel more powerful and usable than the standard controllers levels ever were,
When I first got the new controller I did a full assist 28mph average speed, 18 mile ride which I also used to do on full assist on the standard controller and it seemed to have about 25% more range in that scenario. but because I am using the lower pas levels alot more my increase in range will be more than that. It is very hard to quantify and compare to the old controller.
I'm kinda interested in how you guys are finding the other benifits so far?
I mean for me it has totally transformed the bike off road just due to the better modulation and power consistancy.

Yeah.. i think 45% is probably the upper bound. As @TomD pointed out, its probably on flats. However, even a somewhat conservative 25% is fantastic. You are essentially extendig your battery cycle life by 25% !

 

[TomW]

Ludicrous seems to magnify issues doesn't it? I have an offer from Luna to upgrade my M600 for free but I'm hesitant as it may just magnify the issues I have.

Luna were really hyped about the ultra when it first came out, multiple video's etc banging on about it being the next big thing then half a year later it seemed like they had given up on it. I guess there modifications were not that successful with the Ultra. Maybe they had more success with the M600? it has been a product that they have used for a longer period of time so maybe?

 

[TomW]

Yeah.. i think 45% is probably the upper bound. As @TomD pointed out, its probably on flats. However, even a somewhat conservative 25% is fantastic. You are essentially extendig your battery cycle life by 25% !

Yeah my example is a more worst case scenario, high speed wind resistance, bad country roads hills up and down etc. And the Archon feels more powerful in this situation. But it is a example of when both controllers are set to max.
Day to day I'm getting alot more than 25% extra miles to a charge than I used to because pas level 3 feels like pas level 4 etc.
I used to use pas 4/5 quite often on the old set up and now I use level's 2 or 3.

 

[pennybags]

Luna were really hyped about the ultra when it first came out, multiple video's etc banging on about it being the next big thing then half a year later it seemed like they had given up on it. I guess there modifications were not that successful with the Ultra. Maybe they had more success with the M600? it has been a product that they have used for a longer period of time so maybe?

Luna is definitely succeeding with the X1 bike. No one else has that product (well dengfu does). They are also succeeding with the Surron. I know of a bunch of people who have bough surrons - at that price point it is a no brainer.

If you look at historically (over the past 3 years), Luna always catered to the new and shiny thing - and were (are?) considered "innovating" .

Of late I feel that WW has upended them on most of the "cool" stuff scenario with the new controller, a better (though pricier) bike, better geometry, belt drive with rohloff, more innovation like dual battery converter, a better quality 21Ah battery that fits standard mounts... just a lot of little things that you want from upstart innovative companies. Plus getting a kickass bike where the original Luna Apex kinda failed. I remember trying to order a giant roam with bbshd 3 - 4 years ago .. or whenever it was ... so much excitement. Now I go to Luna's site and its Sur ron and X1.


Between Surron, and the X1, Luna is catering to more the semi enduro / off road crowd. They are increasingly going the re-badged direction too. There is a ton of money to be made there (just google Surron.. there's TONS of them), and I wouldn't be surprised if Luna gives up on Bafang motor /servicing / servicing soon. With smaller players like WW , Biktrix, and now (not so small) Sondors etc doing a better job with Bafang bikes, there isnt a market Luna can stand out from the crowd.

 

[AdilDesai]

@TomD & @Ayl what are the weight of your bikes? The Superbike is going to be over 70 pounds, so curious to know if your bikes are that heavy and getting these results.

 

[byunbee]

@pushkar, While we're on topic of M600, what are your plans for the Archon controller on the M600? What kind of power offering will the M600 with Archon provide?

 

[TomD]

Mine is 75 lb. The archon X1 laughs at it. It feels like we need some Chuck Norris esque memes for archon X1.

 

[Ayl]

@AdilDesai, the total weight of my Ultimate Commuter with loaded panniers is around 80 lbs.
The dry weight of a UC is at 65 lbs. Throw in an extra 52v 17.5 ah battery by EM3ev, and it's and additional 10.36 lbs. Add in my panniers containing equipment and two thirty ounce Hydro Flasks full of water and it's another 5 lbs. Also, I weigh in at 244 lbs.

 

[pushkar]

@pushkar, While we're on topic of M600, what are your plans for the Archon controller on the M600? What kind of power offering will the M600 with Archon provide?

It is really great at 750W nominal / 1100W peak. Very responsive. You can go up to 1000W nominal like the ultra but not beyond it. That should be plenty for most people and will make for an excellent bike.

 

[TomW]

LOL i'm a bit scared of putting mine on some scales I might put my back out.
But it has lost weight recently with new wheels etc. I also have a effective but cheap and heavy dropper post installed at the moment which may be upgraded at some point.

 

[byunbee]

I'm curious as to how you guys use your bikes with the Archon Ultra Motor? Is it mainly for getting from point A to B as easiest possible? Or do some of you use your Archon Ultra motor bikes primarily for exercise?

I'm trying to gauge whether the new UC Pro will provide the same level of exercise that I'm getting from my current class 1 Bosch motor (Performance Line Gen 2 - 250W nominal) ebike since everyone is reporting a boost in power at each PAS level. I currently almost never go beyond the Eco setting and usually only on inclines, but the bike is only 41 lbs. An yes, I am aware that I can always turn the motor off and get 75 lbs worth of exercise.