Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

[mschwett]

This is quickly becoming a no. And there are a couple of simple reasons. We all know the disadvantages of smartphones in the winter. I have one more: I have a corporate profile on my phone that prevents me from disabling auto-lock. This means, typically, I can’t run the phone with screen on all the time. You know how that will go with winter gloves. Even touch screen friendly ones.

hmmmm that’s interesting. have you confirmed that with the “display always active” setting on in MC and a ride in progress it actually locks the screen?

i have auto-lock turned on on all my iOS devices, but mission control and cadence definitely don’t go into lock mode while i’m riding.

while you’re computer shopping, check out the hammerhead k2. “phone people” (like me) tend to like it better than the science project interfaces of more traditional bike computers, and AFAIK it’s totally self sufficient for rerouting.

the best source for gadget-centric reviews of cycling gear by someone who really knows their stuff is dcrainmaker’s website.

one other minor point, if you go the computer route there seems to be a limited/simplified version of the NPE cable called the “heartbeatz” which is specially for pairing the apple watch HRM to cycling/fitness gear like a bike computer.

 

[dynamic]

the “display always active” setting on in MC and a ride in progress it actually locks the screen?

I have not. But MC isn’t the screen I need on. Its RWGPS. And, I may be dense, but I haven’t found a setting in that app that will keep it on. There is nothing in MC I need unless the six fields and multiple pages on the bike display aren’t enough. MC is just there to record.

check out the hammerhead k2

I have. And @Stefan Mikes comments about it not being entirely ebike friendly seem relevant. Which seems odd that it hasn’t been corrected in 2022. I don’t have all the info on what is lacking. At least battery display I think (which, if that’s it, I don’t care. It’s on the main display).

dcrainmaker’s website.

I think I have been reading this. I think he has the insane viiiiva review from 2013?

called the “heartbeatz” which is specially for pairing the apple watch HRM to cycling/fitness gear like a bike computer.

Ooooooooo! Not having a separate HRM is honestly a big deal. I need to look into this! Thanks!

 

[mschwett]

I have not. But MC isn’t the screen I need on. Its RWGPS. And, I may be dense, but I haven’t found a setting in that app that will keep it on. There is nothing in MC I need unless the six fields and multiple pages on the bike display aren’t enough. MC is just there to record.

it’s called “handlebar mode,” and it’s in the settings once you’ve started a ride.

 

[dynamic]

NPE cable called the “heartbeatz”

Might be more unobtanium. I can't even find reference to it on their own shop currently (one of the reasons I haven't really looked at it previously).

I do want to comment on karoo 2. It actually may have a distinct advantage in that in theory, it can side load an android RWGPS, which would *completely eliminate* any need for the phone at all. If that works, that is *really good*. All the stuff would simply be right there. Maybe even leave the iPhone home?

Anyway, it looks really good. That plus heartbeatz would be a really good solution if they were both reliable. Karoo 2 even supports cell data, so it really isn't entirely out of the question to leave the iPhone out of the picture.

I feel like I'm growing as a person........ I hate that.

 

[dynamic]

it’s called “handlebar mode,” and it’s in the settings once you’ve started a ride.

View attachment 136246

There it is! I swore I saw it somewhere. Thanks!

 

[mschwett]

Might be more unobtanium. I can't even find reference to it on their own shop currently (one of the reasons I haven't really looked at it previously).

I do want to comment on karoo 2. It actually may have a distinct advantage in that in theory, it can side load an android RWGPS, which would *completely eliminate* any need for the phone at all. If that works, that is *really good*. All the stuff would simply be right there. Maybe even leave the iPhone home?

Anyway, it looks really good. That plus heartbeatz would be a really good solution if they were both reliable. Karoo 2 even supports cell data, so it really isn't entirely out of the question to leave the iPhone out of the picture.

I feel like I'm growing as a person........ I hate that.

it seems available in the EU, for 40 and it looks like they ship to the US, at least it let me select US for shopping when i put it in my cart….

Heartbeatz

Delivery in 1-2 days (Republic of Ireland) Delivery in 3-5 days (EU) Apple Watch® and opens it up to a world of possibilities• Our heartbeatz Apple Watch® app broadcasts your heart rate data to the heartbeatz receiver• The heartbeatz re-broadcasts the heart rate data it receives from the...

retail.cigalacycling.com

 

[mschwett]

I have. And @Stefan Mikes comments about it not being entirely ebike friendly seem relevant. Which seems odd that it hasn’t been corrected in 2022. I don’t have all the info on what is lacking. At least battery display I think (which, if that’s it, I don’t care. It’s on the main display).

it doesn’t (yet) support the LEV profile, but you’ll still get speed, power, and cadence. no battery info.

on the other hand, you can sideload mission control and RwGPS on it, which would definitely let you leave the phone at home and doesn’t your vado have a battery display anyway?

 

[dynamic]

it doesn’t (yet) support the LEV profile, but you’ll still get speed, power, and cadence. no battery info.

on the other hand, you can sideload mission control and RwGPS on it, which would definitely let you leave the phone at home and doesn’t your vado have a battery display anyway?

Indeed it does. I just wonder what else karoo 2 doesn't support.
Also, it may actually be harder to get RWGPS to actively push routes into it. Wahoo has a dedicated app that is essentially the target of the route share which then deals with the bike computer over BT (if I understand correctly). Not sure how that would work here.

This is all assuming karoo 2's onboard route planning isn't good enough. It could be. The problem I would have with it is I plan most routes on my iPhone in advance if I need navigation. Even if it *is* good enough on its own, I don't want to take it off the bike at the end of over ride to have it inside for planning if I don't need to.

Good return policy though. So might just be worth buying and trying instead of trying to figure it out without touching the thing.

 

[mschwett]

Indeed it does. I just wonder what else karoo 2 doesn't support.
Also, it may actually be harder to get RWGPS to actively push routes into it. Wahoo has a dedicated app that is essentially the target of the route share which then deals with the bike computer over BT (if I understand correctly). Not sure how that would work here.

This is all assuming karoo 2's onboard route planning isn't good enough. It could be. The problem I would have with it is I plan most routes on my iPhone in advance if I need navigation. Even if it *is* good enough on its own, I don't want to take it off the bike at the end of over ride to have it inside for planning if I don't need to.

Good return policy though. So might just be worth buying and trying instead of trying to figure it out without touching the thing.

of course you can grab a route from RwGPS or strava or similar on your pc. i wouldn’t do serious route planning on the k2 itself! one click in the browser with the plugin, if it works as advertised. otherwise a quick copy paste.

If you have a route planned on a platform such as Strava, Komoot or Ride with GPS, or a friend has sent you a web link to one of theirs, it's really quick and easy to transfer onto the device by putting the URL website link into the Hammerhead dashboard 'import route' area. Or you can upload the original file in .gpx, .fit, .tcx, .kml, and .kmz formats here.

Another useful way of importing routes is by adding the Karoo Route Grab extension to your browser (such as Firefox and Chrome). By clicking on this installed icon it'll import the route on the webpage you are currently viewing to your Hammerhead Karoo dashboard, which is even quicker to do.

 

[dynamic]

of course you can grab a route from RwGPS or strava or similar on your pc. i wouldn’t do serious route planning on the k2 itself! one click in the browser with the plugin, if it works as advertised. otherwise a quick copy paste.

But all of this is with dashboard connectivity. So moving from RWGPS -> K2 *without* connectivity (as I can have out in the wild on-bike here) could be problematic. Home planning shouldn't be an issue since karoo 2 will have wifi (and possibly cell, if I go that route). But it's possible neither will exist out on the bike. Which means on-bike changes may *need* to be on unit. (again, this may be a non-issue with a touch screen and decent routing software).

Gonna have to watch some good video reviews to get a feel for it.

 

[mschwett]

But all of this is with dashboard connectivity. So moving from RWGPS -> K2 *without* connectivity (as I can have out in the wild on-bike here) could be problematic. Home planning shouldn't be an issue since karoo 2 will have wifi (and possibly cell, if I go that route). But it's possible neither will exist out on the bike. Which means on-bike changes may *need* to be on unit. (again, this may be a non-issue with a touch screen and decent routing software).

Gonna have to watch some good video reviews to get a feel for it.

oh i see - you mean doing route planning on the bike on RwGPS and then trying to get that to the k2? probably possible but that’s quite an edge case. i don’t think the mobile version of RwGPS exports files, does it? i remember trying to do it a few times and giving up.

the k2 has offline maps, obviously, so if you’re out in the wild without internet on the device you would just use the native mapping app. or RwGPS with cached maps on the device. not on your phone.

 

[dynamic]

oh i see - you mean doing route planning on the bike on RwGPS and then trying to get that to the k2? probably possible but that’s quite an edge case. i don’t think the mobile version of RwGPS exports files, does it? i remember trying to do it a few times and giving up.

the k2 has offline maps, obviously, so if you’re out in the wild without internet on the device you would just use the native mapping app. or RwGPS with cached maps on the device. not on your phone.

Right. Like today. Though I probably had cell service where I was. k2 would need hotspot or cell data to transfer the new route. Looks like there is no direct sending. Even rwgps side loaded on the k2 may need the internet to get a new route to the k2. Gotta love technology.

With connectivity, this is a non-issue. Without it, could be really frustrating. Gonna keep an eye on cell signal as I ride around the back roads.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

i haven’t seen a ANT+ LEV field for “motor power percentage,”

Derrek has it on his Mastermind display, so he can at least look it up on the ride.

Today there was a road closure for my route and I had to re-route. I stopped, killed navigation on rwgps and opened route planner to try and find a similar distance and time route. I did. From my understanding, the bolt would have required the phone to re-map. The roam *could* but isn’t great at it without the phone.

With Roam, just take any detour and the computer will re-calculate the new route.

while you’re computer shopping, check out the hammerhead k2.

it doesn’t (yet) support the LEV profile, but you’ll still get speed, power, and cadence. no battery info.

A bike GPS computer and no LEV ANT+? No, thank you "What else it doesn't have?"

 

[mschwett]

…
A bike GPS computer and no LEV ANT+? No, thank you "What else it doesn't have?"

different priorities! it’s definitely the one i’d get, for the screen, ability to sideload mission control and other apps, connectivity, and steady pace of upgrades and updates. at some point they’ll add LEV profile support, no doubt. not having battery % wouldn’t be an issue for me since it’s displayed directly on the bike.

of course, i don’t like bike computers

 

[Stefan Mikes]

at some point they’ll add LEV profile support

Hammerhead has not added the LEV support for a year now...

 

[dynamic]

Hammerhead has not added the LEV support for a year now...

Yeah, I just got a support response back from them. And they still don't have a timeline.
For me, the "not sure how it will work disconnected in the field" is a bigger issue.

of course, i don’t like bike computers

I just need to poke fun at both of you by pointing out, even all bike computers don't conform to this marvelous open ant+/lev standard. ;P

I am actually exploring garmin watches again. I ordered an apple watch ultra to replace my series 5 (I find 3 years to be the realistic lifetime for apple watches before features or battery become problematic). But, I am considering canning the ultra (which won't arrive until end of october) in favor of a garmin watch that can be the bike computer and heart rate monitor. Seems like a long shot with too many downsides. But still looking at it.

Right now, I suspect I will end up with a bolt/roam. As all the problems I am aware of seem to be handled on them when the phone is present.

 

[mschwett]

I just need to poke fun at both of you by pointing out, even all bike computers don't conform to this marvelous open ant+/lev standard. ;P

well, they all “conform” to and support ANT+ - and it’s quite bulletproof - but that’s a broad range of possible data profiles for thousand of different sports related devices. the LEV+ data type is actually pretty new, i think! wahoo added support in 2020, for example!

ANT+ Device Profiles - THIS IS ANT

ANT is a Wireless Personal Network protocol, by Garmin Canada, with small size, reasonable cost and very low power requirements.

www.thisisant.com

 

[dynamic]

So handlebar mode worked on RWGPS today. I did my standard 11.5 mile loop and dropped a package off in town. What I did differently is never changed a bike setting. The bike starts in 50% micro tune by default (when you tell it the starting mode should be microtune), and I did not change it the entire ride. I also left cadence in "fast" for 85 rpm. The ride left me with 78% battery. And I *did not* push the microtune up for any hill, or down for any downhill or flat section. On the 10%+ grades uphill, this was purely an act of willpower. I hate riding that slow even when that grade is relatively temporary. As always, the last mile up to my house is the hardest as I reclaim any elevation I lost during the ride.

I wore my rain coat because of light rain for the ride. And I really don't like it as it contains the heat making me sweat more (it does have those arm vents which I keep fully open). I did a harder ride yesterday with no coat and I came home not really needing to change. The open air makes a huge difference. It was warmer and sunny yesterday too.

One thing that is a bit problematic, is there aren't a lot of 10-12 mile loops. I generally have an hour to ride including pre/post stuff. So that is the distance I need. I don't really want to do six miles out and six miles back type trips. The next thing is I know a lot of these roads are a mess once the snow hits. So I think a lot of the loops I am doing now are going to become inaccessible regardless of studded/snow tires. And, I have to assume, when the snow hits, the average speed drops making the loops shrink to reach the time frame. Studded car tires slide on these roads, why wouldn't bikes?

The next thing I am thinking about is all the accessories and stuff I haven't purchased yet. Biking cost adds up:

kinekt/thudbuster/whatever seat post
burley nomad cargo trailer
burley honey bee kid trailer
professional bike fit
suspension stem
saddle, handlebars, raising/lowering whatever from bike fit
additional panniers
studded tires and labor
bike computer/watch/hrm/whatever
additional clothes/shoes/seasonal gear
Possible switch to fully clipless pedals.

That's an expensive list. To the point that I have to pick and choose. I would really like the stem and suspension post on the bike for the bike fitting. The studded tires will be decided when winter truly hits. And, unless I suddenly become happy with MC or limited data, a bike computer will potentially also help with winter iPhone issues. I am already reaching glove temperature for morning rides so some winterizing is going to start soon.

Gonna have to prioritize. And I am not sure that list is "complete".

Gonna plan tomorrow's ride! Was going to do a new direction (time permitting). I want to see as many of the roads as possible before the winter hits.

Winter is coming.

 

[mschwett]

So handlebar mode worked on RWGPS today. I did my standard 11.5 mile loop and dropped a package off in town. What I did differently is never changed a bike setting. The bike starts in 50% micro tune by default (when you tell it the starting mode should be microtune), and I did not change it the entire ride. I also left cadence in "fast" for 85 rpm. The ride left me with 78% battery. And I *did not* push the microtune up for any hill, or down for any downhill or flat section. On the 10%+ grades uphill, this was purely an act of willpower. I hate riding that slow even when that grade is relatively temporary. As always, the last mile up to my house is the hardest as I reclaim any elevation I lost during the ride.

I wore my rain coat because of light rain for the ride. And I really don't like it as it contains the heat making me sweat more (it does have those arm vents which I keep fully open). I did a harder ride yesterday with no coat and I came home not really needing to change. The open air makes a huge difference. It was warmer and sunny yesterday too.

One thing that is a bit problematic, is there aren't a lot of 10-12 mile loops. I generally have an hour to ride including pre/post stuff. So that is the distance I need. I don't really want to do six miles out and six miles back type trips. The next thing is I know a lot of these roads are a mess once the snow hits. So I think a lot of the loops I am doing now are going to become inaccessible regardless of studded/snow tires. And, I have to assume, when the snow hits, the average speed drops making the loops shrink to reach the time frame. Studded car tires slide on these roads, why wouldn't bikes?

The next thing I am thinking about is all the accessories and stuff I haven't purchased yet. Biking cost adds up:

kinekt/thudbuster/whatever seat post
burley nomad cargo trailer
burley honey bee kid trailer
professional bike fit
suspension stem
saddle, handlebars, raising/lowering whatever from bike fit
additional panniers
studded tires and labor
bike computer/watch/hrm/whatever
additional clothes/shoes/seasonal gear
Possible switch to fully clipless pedals.

That's an expensive list. To the point that I have to pick and choose. I would really like the stem and suspension post on the bike for the bike fitting. The studded tires will be decided when winter truly hits. And, unless I suddenly become happy with MC or limited data, a bike computer will potentially also help with winter iPhone issues. I am already reaching glove temperature for morning rides so some winterizing is going to start soon.

Gonna have to prioritize. And I am not sure that list is "complete".

Gonna plan tomorrow's ride! Was going to do a new direction (time permitting). I want to see as many of the roads as possible before the winter hits.

Winter is coming.

snow and ice on the road is going to be a bear, i’ve ridden in those conditions before on knobby 42mm tires, and while it was doable it was not enjoyable. of course, i’m not used to it but i find it hard to believe people will often choose to bundle up that extensively for a short ride.

when looking for routes, i often start with the Strava global heatmap. Lots of routes around you which are similarly “hot,” would be interesting to see the data for winter vs other seasons!

good luck prioritizing the list. Many of those items are related

 

[dynamic]

would be interesting to see the data for winter vs other seasons!

I am pretty sure I saw a monthly breakdown in one of the services. I thought it was strava segments but I can’t find it at the moment. For many of them, the number drops to zero for 3 months. Might have been another service though.

good luck prioritizing the list. Many of those items are related

Right? I mean, I don’t need to do the shopping by bike. So cargo/kid trailers and maybe more panniers can wait for spring. But everything else basically has a built in time frame.