Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

Priority have any connectivity?
This didn’t post when I wrote it. So posting it now.

Nope. None at all as far as I know. Which puts it in exactly the same data transfer situation as I have *with* ant+ and bluetooth as of today since I can't pull the information out of the specialized bike. That's the point. Connectivity that I can’t use may as well not be there.

FYI: I work in technology and solve enterprise scale problems like this. The only reason this one isn't solved is because someone doesn't want to solve it. (or won't prioritize solving it usually for non-technical reasons).

I would be out riding right now if I hadn't gotten the omicron shot. The aches and headaches are insane.
 
I learned something today. I don’t like riding real rides without clipping in. We forgot our jackets at home and I had ridden down already. Turned around and came back up. I was wearing my regular boots. When I got home I grabbed our jackets and swapped to my biking shoes. Sooo much better.

Today was the least miles I have done in a while. Just short of 8 miles. Definitely not enough.
 
Which puts it in exactly the same data transfer situation as I have *with* ant+ and bluetooth as of today since I can't pull the information out of the specialized bike. That's the point. Connectivity that I can’t use may as well not be there.
I do use the Specialized connectivity to the best effect. It is only you who doesn't want to use it :)
 
I do use the Specialized connectivity to the best effect. It is only you who doesn't want to use it :)
I don't think a $6,000 bike with claimed "class leading" connectivity should force me to buy a bike computer that is far inferior to my phone because they don't feel like implementing software that a $50 wireless dongle can do (if that dongle were available, I would have ordered it already).

Honestly, I would have bought something else if I had realized the extent of this stupidity earlier.

I am now researching bike computers and bike watches, hoping one of them can be useful enough to justify replacing an apple watch and iPhone. With the shrinking number ant+ available smart things, there aren't a lot of choices. It looks like the ROAM is being discontinued (hopefully because of a replacement, but if not....) And, I need to add a heart rate monitor. Which is just more stuff I have to charge and pay attention to to go on a ride. Meanwhile, my apple watch and iphone are *already there*.
 
I don't think a $6,000 bike with claimed "class leading" connectivity should force me to buy a bike computer that is far inferior to my phone because they don't feel like implementing software that a $50 wireless dongle can do (if that dongle were available, I would have ordered it already).

Honestly, I would have bought something else if I had realized the extent of this stupidity earlier.

I am now researching bike computers and bike watches, hoping one of them can be useful enough to justify replacing an apple watch and iPhone. With the shrinking number ant+ available smart things, there aren't a lot of choices. It looks like the ROAM is being discontinued (hopefully because of a replacement, but if not....) And, I need to add a heart rate monitor. Which is just more stuff I have to charge and pay attention to to go on a ride. Meanwhile, my apple watch and iphone are *already there*.
You have hit the nail on the head.
 
I don't think a $6,000 bike with claimed "class leading" connectivity should force me to buy a bike computer that is far inferior to my phone because they don't feel like implementing software that a $50 wireless dongle can do (if that dongle were available, I would have ordered it already).

Honestly, I would have bought something else if I had realized the extent of this stupidity earlier.
You will find no e-bikes with better connectivity than Specialized Turbos in the market. Buy anything with better connectivity. And do not forget to mention the brand :D

The main reason I started buying Specialized e-bikes was the connectivity. And I take the full benefit of it since May 2020. Perhaps because I am not an Apple fanboy. And I do not want to put a $1,000 smartphone on my bars anymore.

Derrek: I made over 25,000 km on 4 different e-bikes since August 2019. Three of them had ANT+ connectivity (2 Spec and 1 Giant). Are you riding or talking? :)
 
You will find no e-bikes with better connectivity than Specialized Turbos in the market. Buy anything with better connectivity. And do not forget to mention the brand :D

The main reason I started buying Specialized e-bikes was the connectivity. And I take the full benefit of it since May 2020. Perhaps because I am not an Apple fanboy. And I do not want to put a $1,000 smartphone on my bars anymore.

Derrek: I made over 25,000 km on 4 different e-bikes since August 2019. Three of them had ANT+ connectivity (2 Spec and 1 Giant). Are you riding or talking? :)
Or buy something without any of it, use an iPhone or Android phone, ditch the data you can't get anyway without spending that extra $1.000 you won't put into an iphone on other connectivity crap to support the bike. Oh, and in doing so, spend a *lot* less money overall.

The specialized "premium" here is laughable from a connectivity point of view. The "premium" is how much more you need to spend to get the data off the bike. If specialized wants to actually be useful, they will make Android and iOS fully integrated and simply allow 3rd party apps to do what they want with the data. The first bike manufacturer that does that will be my next bike. Hopefully it's specialized, with a software update, to my bike. That will earn some serious respect.

Don't get me wrong, I like the bike. I don't know of any other bike with belt drive, good power, automatic gearing, integrated radar (that's a hard requirement for me now, it's obscenely good), and excellent ride quality. But, if this is the best the industry has to offer from a connectivity standpoint, it's a joke. I could do better on my own by buying BLE enabled parts for the metrics I want.

Being the "best" in the industry doesn't necessarily mean it is "good". And, you mentioned giant. It looks like their ridecontrol app actually has navigation. If they have apple watch heart rate out of box, they just smashed specialized in "connectivity". I can't confirm that they do. Maybe specialized should make their apps better than the competition?
 
I think the connectivity issue is a matter of opinion. I have a Creo, and have absolutely no objection to the fact I had to purchase a computer to get the info I wanted.

I also have a Trek bike, which has a phone hub. This connects to the Cobi app, which is (just) ok, but provides nowhere near the flexibility of data management that the Specialized bikes do.

With the Creo, using a Wahoo device, I can choose from numerous data fields, and upload to a variety of sites, including RidewithGPS, Komoot, Strava and SRAM. I can see which gears I’m using, not only at the moment of use, but after my ride I can see how long I used them, where on the route I used them, and more. I can monitor my cadence and torque levels, during and after the ride. I can also download maps from a variety of sites. Perhaps most importantly to me, I can control the modes and assist levels, and track additional data, with BLEvo (fortunately, I don’t have a MasterMind bike). These are just a few of the possibilities.

As far as I’m concerned, I hope Specialized doesn’t bow to the demands of those who would prefer the “simplification” of data management.
 
If they have apple watch heart rate out of box, they just smashed specialized in "connectivity".
Giant (same as Specialized) is a bicycle company and is not interested in Apple deficiencies. Any ANT+ compatible HR monitor connects to a Specialized e-bike. All of them outside Apple have ANT+.
 
As far as I’m concerned, I hope Specialized doesn’t bow to the demands of those who would prefer the “simplification” of data management.
How is it simplification to offer all of that data to every rider with a phone?
 
with BLEvo (fortunately, I don’t have a MasterMind bike). These are just a few of the possibilities.
Wait a second, are you saying specialized took away a capability on my mastermind bike vs your pre-mastermind? So, I could use the bike computer to control the bike pre-mastermind but not on my bike?
 
Giant (same as Specialized) is a bicycle company and is not interested in Apple deficiencies. Any ANT+ compatible HR monitor connects to a Specialized e-bike. All of them outside Apple have ANT+.
Doesn’t answer the question. If their app supports apple health, then I should have bought a giant. They get it. I can’t confirm that it does or doesn’t. But the fact that they also support ant+ is irrelevant.
 
Let me be clear: I believe it is reasonable to expect a "class leading" bike in 2022 to be able to gather bike data, health data and navigate turn by turn from the most common sources "out of box". The most common sources in this case are Android and iOS phones. Nearly everyone has one or the other of those. And those that do are likely to rely on android wear or apple watch for their health data (or something compatible with either of those, like fitbit if they care about that at all). That is the state of the industry. Denying that is.... delusional.

What do I mean by out of box? I mean there should be no further cost. What are the gaps today?

Without additional hardware and/or services, there is no way to navigate, gather rider health data and bike data at the same time no matter what common ecosystem a user currently uses (see afore mentioned iOS and Android).

How could Specialized fix this? One of these would solve the "out of box" issues:

1) They could add existing health stuff supported by iOS and Android as well as navigation to Specialized Ride/Mission Control on all platforms. Now the "out of box" complaint becomes a locked in one: "Hey, it only works with their application", which is a different complaint. While this is not my preference, it would be a better situation than today.

2) They could support Bluetooth Smart for phone communication and say "use any app or device you like that supports the protocol to receive the data from ant+". This avoids the "locked in" issue above. And technically lets the user select from other options. (effectively equivalent to an NPE Cable)

I honestly think they should do both. But I would prefer 2 as I don't have faith specialized can do a good job on an app given the state of Ride/Mission Control.

Finally, Bosch supports apple health through the Cobi app. It also does navigation. Look at that, all out of box capabilities are met by the "inferior" connectivity of bosch.

All of that said, I am not opposed to buying a bike computer. The problem is that bike computer needs to *solve* the problems and not add to them. The bike computer becomes the owner of the tracking. Which means it also has to take on route planning or integrate tightly with the phone so I can plan my route on my phone, push share, it magically pops on to the bike computer and I go. To do that, and still have heart rate, I *still* need a heart rate sensor that I only use for riding. I *do* need that heart rate data to make it to apple health (I have years of health related data that I use there). And, of course, none of this shows up on the apple watch on my wrist which I do currently use with ride with gps. Since the bike can't show all metrics I want, I can put common ones on my watch and bike ones on the bike.

Since none of these bike computers seem to actually integrate with phones, what they really do is post directly to whatever service they support that you choose. Cutting the phone entirely out of the picture. This may leave strava as the *only* option to get apple health data (this applies equally to android) back from such devices (I am not sure on this, and would need to experiment). So, specialized "class leading connectivity" means accepting bike computers navigation (none of which are as easy to use as any smartphone), needing specific heart rate sensors for cycling as opposed to any other activity I do, and being limited potentially to the least useful service of all the biking services I tried (strava).

If that's not an unfortunate walled garden, I don't know what is. It continues to make Apple's ecosystem look open and flexible. And that statement makes zero sense in *any other context*. Hopefully mastermind was a step in the direction of fixing this... eventually.

New users be warned.
 
Please, spare me.
Ride on!
P.S. Please find an e-bike with better connectivity than Specialized. Unfortunately for you, an Apple e-bike was not conceived yet.
 
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Please, spare me.
Ride on!
P.S. Please find an e-bike with better connectivity than Specialized. Unfortunately for you, an Apple e-bike was not conceived yet.
If they were truly anti-apple they shouldn’t have apps for iOS devices. But they do. And have selectively decided to not implement easily implemented iOS (and android) features supporting their industry.

They should drop the apps entirely if that is their path. Why haven’t they? They are basically useless and rendered more useless by a bike computer. Why do they exist at all?
 
If they were truly anti-apple they shouldn’t have apps for iOS devices. But they do. And have selectively decided to not implement easily implemented iOS (and android) features supporting their industry.

They should drop the apps entirely if that is their path. Why haven’t they? They are basically useless and rendered more useless by a bike computer. Why do they exist at all?
Specialized didn't promise you anything except that the Mission Control app would work for both Android and iPhone. ANT+ is appreciated by the more advanced of us.
You can live on your fantasies. The real world does not work according to your dreams.

Go and buy another e-bike. Bosch E-Bike could be a good starting point to learn.
 
Specialized didn't promise you anything except that the Mission Control app would work for both Android and iPhone. ANT+ is appreciated by the more advanced of us.
You can live on your fantasies. The real world does not work according to your dreams.

Go and buy another e-bike. Bosch E-Bike could be a good starting point to learn.
If specialized gave me access, I could implement “my dreams”. By myself. Having done it before on other iOS apps.

This isn’t a “dream” it’s a company ignoring the reality of consumers. They want to take advantage of the ios appstore without supporting the advantages having an iOS device offers the consumer. Same can be said for android.

You are right. It’s their choice. Maintaining elitism to ignore mature ecosystems in favor of less usable alternatives that force specific purchases is a choice they can make. That is what is happening here. And it is their right to do that.

My choice is to not stay silent about it. Especially since offering both options is *not* some huge undertaking ( said, again, by an engineer who has and can implement these things ).

Knowing what I know today, I would have tried the gazelle c380+ hmb first. Maybe it’s better. Maybe it isn’t. But I know specialized has again demonstrated it’s lack of “rider first” claimed value.
 
If specialized gave me access, I could implement “my dreams”. By myself. Having done it before on other iOS apps.

This isn’t a “dream” it’s a company ignoring the reality of consumers. They want to take advantage of the ios appstore without supporting the advantages having an iOS device offers the consumer. Same can be said for android.

You are right. It’s their choice. Maintaining elitism to ignore mature ecosystems in favor of less usable alternatives that force specific purchases is a choice they can make. That is what is happening here. And it is their right to do that.

My choice is to not stay silent about it. Especially since offering both options is *not* some huge undertaking ( said, again, by an engineer who has and can implement these things ).

Knowing what I know today, I would have tried the gazelle c380+ hmb first. Maybe it’s better. Maybe it isn’t. But I know specialized has again demonstrated it’s lack of “rider first” claimed value.
So then, how do you propose that we communicate with "Rider Care" the desires that you suggest? They have always been so irresponsible and ignorant with any communications I've attempted. You have some extremely good points. But the difficulty is that they don't give 2 shix's, and that's the problem.
Like I've commented before great bikes and miserable customer service.
A very quick example; How the hell could they bring to market the IGH without having extensively tested it in "the real world" with riders such as us? I've beta-tested software, products, and lots of stuff, and the feedback gained is monumental to the end result.
Just sayin'
 
So then, how do you propose that we communicate with "Rider Care" the desires that you suggest? They have always been so irresponsible and ignorant with any communications I've attempted. You have some extremely good points. But the difficulty is that they don't give 2 shix's, and that's the problem.
Like I've commented before great bikes and miserable customer service.
A very quick example; How the hell could they bring to market the IGH without having extensively tested it in "the real world" with riders such as us? I've beta-tested software, products, and lots of stuff, and the feedback gained is monumental to the end result.
Just sayin'
I completely agree. I think the growing pains they are experiencing as they try to become a direct to consumer company is also taking much more energy than they expected. Unlike you, my bike may be fine. I think they are good bike manufacturers. I actually suspect that IGH problems will end up being more driven by lack of LBS training. Every product has lemons. But every product can also be unintentionally abused. What they aren’t good at is customer service or software engineering. I wouldn’t be surprised if the iOS/Android stuff is outsourced to a penny pinching software firm.

As to communicating with them, I really don’t know. I think money speaks louder than e-mails. And rider care is pretty much a canned response from a real person. That’s almost more infuriating than actual canned responses. I can’t tell you how many who’s on first responses I got from them. If the IGH issues really are widespread, I suspect their repair/return rates will speak louder than anything we can do. Unfortunately.

If this bike stays functional appropriately, ultimately I will enjoy it. I will likely get a viiiiva or npe cable if I can obtain them reasonably. If they solve this issue (and it works with an app I like, like rwgps), then I will consider this an annoyingly stupid non-issue. I don’t object to spending a bit of money. But telling me to buy expensive inferior products with inferior experiences as the “only option” is a non-starter for me.
 
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