Evelo, Gazelle, or Priority

[Stefan Mikes]

I think Specialized should reward him and offer trophies, merchandise, and regular bicycle upgrades!

The amount of money and labour Specialized has put into my Vado (including the upgrades to 2020 and to version 6.0) to honour their warranty is the biggest trophy and reward for me

I have just registered the new frame with Specialized.com to apply for yet another "lifetime warranty" on the frame:

 

[AHicks]

Regarding the idea of "changing classes", all you need to do is to look at the class definitions to see it's pretty easy to remove the throttle from a class II bike and it fit's the class 1 rules perfectly. Claiming differently is "misleading". That's actually one of my biggest gripes, but I won't go into that here.

That leads into whether a bike is "throttle equipped" when the wire in unplugged. Pretty grey area to play in, making it your call (I have no trouble sleeping with the idea my throttle is fully functional no matter where I'm riding). To remove it totally is a 5 minute job requiring you to slide the handle bar grip off to make way for the throttle to slide off after unplugging it. That removed, I'd defy anyone to try and tell me I had a throttle equipped bike at that point....

Regarding service if/when a bike has been discontinued - for any reason. There are bikes built using mostly generic parts (like the Atlas) and there are bikes using parts ONLY available from the dealer or MANF. Generic parts are available from several sources (even after a particular bike has gone out of production), where proprietary are not. Good examples of proprietary parts that can commonly put a bike out of commission (usually due to exorbitant cost of repair) are batteries and mid drive motors/controllers.

 

[rtp]

A few days ago I contacted Evelo about parts: My question in bold - Evelo response follows;
Also, beings that the Atlas is a newer model, and a few models have been discontinued already, how will people be able to get parts for their bikes if the model goes out of production?
We still have parts for bikes we were selling in 2012 - we want to make sure all of our customers can continue to repair and enjoy their bikes even after design changes. There are also 3rd party services that can rebuild batteries, and most components are available 3rd party as well.

So that's good news and puts one more concern out of the way. Evelo Atlas, Gazelle Ultimate C380+ and Priority Current are still on the radar! I have continued to check out other bikes but keep coming back to these 3.

I started a new thread because I didn't know where else to post this;
Atlas throttle option suggestions; on & off the handlebars.
Hello Atlas owners and anyone with suggestions. I would like ideas about how one might be able to have an Atlas and throttle but be able to attach and detach the throttle easily.

I don't (yet) have an Atlas but seriously considering it. I also want a throttle and while OH SO MANY hate the throttle, pay no attention to local regulations concerning the throttle or don't give a ****about anything...
I would like to have one and still be able to comply with the local regulations which mean no class 3 w/throttle on state trails. Apparently they're legal on the roads where I live, for now (no matter what Evelo says) and I plan to use the throttle on the roads getting to the trails. So I thought to attach when I'm going out and remove it once I get to the trail. It has an easy plug right?.

Simple. Except I emailed Evelo and got this response; The throttle is intended to be installed and left installed. You will wear it out prematurely by taking it on and off regularly. When the throttle is installed its not a street legal bike because the throttle will be capable of 28 mph, which is illegal even for a class 3 bike. For this reason we sell it separately.

The Evelo Atlas doesn't have the capability for the owner to change the speed settings in the controller to class 2, (which are allowed on state trails, for now) like the Priority Current does - maybe others too IDK?

It seems to me that a handy, clever person (definitely not me) could fashion some sort of device that would make it as simple as say, detaching a controller screen, for instance, and unplugging the cord. Or something like a quick release on a seat or wheel. Or a buckle like my dogs collar, even hook and loop. There must be some way?

Or should I just forget the throttle? since I'm such a law abiding, civilized person who takes everyone into consideration and do not want to increase the dislike of e-bikers. What do you think?

The Current looks like it also has an M600 Bafang motor. I'm almost betting their comment on 'can be set to class 3' means on order, you can have them use their dealer tool to do a one-time alteration of max speed limit. I don't think the owner can change this - again, there's nothing 'special' or specific to their M600 - it's like every other M600 bike out there, other than the (much different, eMTB) Luna X2 with proprietary (programmable/cofnigurable) controller.
You 'could' do the max speed limit change yourself, but it's kind of messy, not press a button - needs another tool like the BESST tool, or other CANBUS programmer. There's no real issue in removing the throttle - it's a single plug connection electrically, and 1-2 screws. BTW, if you dig into the specs, both the Current and Atlas can be set to 28mph max speed... again, presumably by them before shipping to you.

I think the OP already made their decision. Bosch motors have good efficiency and general reliability, but lower power, although now you can at least get (some of) them configured to a 28mph max speed/class III in the US. The Bafang M600 is probably my favorite Bafang motor - I wish it were UART (easily configured), but it's always been a CANBUS motor with no (sane) way to configure/program other than a custom controller, which are not readily available. However, with reasonable firmware, both the M500/M510 (baby brother, lower max power version of M600) and the M600 are pretty decent including on overall 'riding feel.' The M600 is also more efficient vs e.g. the Ultra and BBHSD Bafang motors - I can do 30 miles w/out issue and still be at > 50% battery, running at lower assistance levels...I suspect the Bosch is 'probably' still more efficient, but there's no direct easy comparison, e.g. PAS 1 of 5 on the M600 is like Tour, 2 of 5 like Turbo...have tried, but I also run my M600 in 9 levels..

From what I can see, both the Current and Atlas are using more or less 'standard Chinesium' parts - no name brand groupset, wheelset, components, etc. The Gazelle has Shimano Deore brake components in contrast. I'm not a fan of the solid fork on the Current, bit I ride off-road a fair amount and rode motorcycles for a long time.

 

[rtp]

Hey Stefan - Changing the Class is illegal- that's news to me. I just know that Priority offers that option. They sell the Current as Class 1 -20mph with the option to increase the speed to 28mph.

I have had a few motorcycles over the years. I often toured/camped all over the Sierra Nevada mountains on a motorcycle during many summers (18) when I lived in San Francisco. And I took it on my truck when I visited my parents in AZ to tour and camp down there. I don't want another motorcycle or a scooter. Well, maybe if I also had a motorhome one would come in handy. But I don't.

My goal IS to get some exercise, to explore, get out and about. And like I've said before, I plan to take the bike when I travel to explore. I find myself in the mountains a lot, camping and exploring. Riding forest service roads would be fun and a throttle would helpful. I realize they are controversial and that I don't really need one but as long as it's available, why not?

The truth is, I'll probably forgo a throttle because I do want to use the bike paths and trails available near me (trails are about 8 or 12 miles away - others are like 20+) I can load the bike on the carrier and drive it to the trails avoiding the dangerous county roads I would have to take to get there (which was the impetus for the throttle).

I can't, realistically, ride in the winter. I'm not getting a fat tire bike, or studded tires. Ever since I had to stop skiing I've disliked winters. So I will only ride in the summer unless I take a trip somewhere, like AZ. My parents are no longer there so I don't find much reason to go. I just use my current bike on my trainer in the winter.

Stefan is very....particular, and not in the US.
Don't concern yourself about it - they can indeed set the max speed limit on the M600 but it's not user settable. They expect you to know and adhere to local laws, whatever they may be, and probably wouldn't set it to the 28MPH max for EU/non-US customers.

Just having a throttle doesn't mean it's used, and realistically depending on where specifically you ride, will determine if it's even an issue in reality. We don't have 'class limited' places here (SE US), just 'ebikes allowed or not,' although of course, the usual common sense and decency applies - don't rip up/damage trails, don't blast by people on throttle etc. I left the throttle on my bike, but can't remember the last time I touched it...but is nice to be 'there' in the event of an injury.

Depending on where and type of riding, it may or may not be a big deal to you...YMMV. I wouldn't personally not buy a bike due to it's not having a throttle if it checked my other boxes, but am also fine with it having one. Were they sanely priced, I might check out a future Turbo Levi SL or Orbea Rise (no throttles) sometime...

 

[rtp]

The amount of money and labour Specialized has put into my Vado (including the upgrades to 2020 and to version 6.0) to honour their warranty is the biggest trophy and reward for me

I have just registered the new frame with Specialized.com to apply for yet another "lifetime warranty" on the frame:
View attachment 145856

Yeah - at least to date, Specialized has indeed seemed to have done a stellar job around warrantees... probably baked into the $ and with their handful of (prior gen?) motor issues, but I've seen far more 'they did the right thing' stories compared to many others...basically, they seem to indeed cover 'their bike' regardless of parts, while some companies will send you chasing the component manufacturer and it goes into endless back and forth...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

basically, they seem to indeed cover 'their bike' regardless of parts, while some companies will send you chasing the component manufacturer and it goes into endless back and forth...

It is easier of them as they manufacture the most of the parts they use. They own the e-bike infrastructure (the system, batteries, displays etc) of the Turbo line and have exclusive deal with motor manufacturers. (Yes, negative stories about Spec can be heard sometimes, too). On the other hand, Bosch E-Bike is the system with (probably) the most of service points.

Bafang... If I hear that name, I visualise a person with a multimeter in their hand

A fun fact (off-topic): Yesterday, I learned from my riding mates there is a Polish bicycle manufacturing group by the name of 7Anna. They build premium MTB, gravel and city bikes under four sub-brands. They also make e-bikes limited to pretty expensive premium e-MTBs (NS Bikes). Guess what motor/system they use? Shimano. One might think poor Poles would go with Bafang or Ananda, just name it but no. It's Shimano. Including the latest EP8 motor.

 

[rbeckert]

Good points for sure. I do think-after extensive research- that for higher quality ebikes, with a good warranty, owners will be able to find parts and service, even on the motor and electrical system with the support of the company that made the bikes. I'm taking Zen, Vvolt, Evelo and Priority since those are companies I've research. That doesn't mean necessarily at the closest LBS.

After all my research on the two D2C bikes non my list, I've only seen one comment about trouble getting the service/parts/help or whatever. It was an unanswered email but that person wasn't too concerned about since every other interaction had been super smooth and quick.

In most parts of the US the rules around bike class and where they are allowed are very confusing and not just for ebike owners. I'm sure that will change in most states before too long.
Where I live it doesn't seem to matter and many locals wouldn't follow the rules anyway. At one hiking/xc ski trail I visit with my dog in all seasons has signs at each trailhead that state NO BIKES but I consistently find fat tire tracks. In the snow the tire tracks can make it hard to walk if they rode when it was warmer and then it gets colder.


No doubt. I saw a YT video, may have been an EBR review, where there were stickers in the box with the charger; Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3. Take your pick.

Here's the YT link.

 

[kneebenderbiker]

a CANBUS motor with no (sane) way to configure/program other than a custom controller

That's more or less what the Evelo Atlas designer says in a review by Court at EBR. They, as the manufacturer can make changes but not the end user.
The Current ships as a class 1 -20mph max but the owner can easily change that with the controller to class 3. I never paid attention whether or not it could be set back to class 1?

I think the OP already made their decision

I am the OP and I have not quite made a final decision. However, I have just returned from looking, again, at the Gazelle C380+ and a bunch of other bikes at the LBS (the other bikes were used to demonstrate various differences) and I learned a great deal. Those bikes with full suspension - geeze!!! And I had thought the camo painted hunting bikes with 2 hub motors were odd.

@TrevorB said Consider adding dropper post to whatever bike you buy. I now know exactly what it is and how it works.

Surprising how time flies while talking with (actually, mostly listening, which might surprise anyone who has read my long posts) the very enthusiastic salesman/buyer, Logan. He filled me in on a bunch of things, including all sorts of inside scoop kind of info. He said he has ordered and they "should" have a new model Gazelle with belt drive, IGH, class 3 in stock in by the middle of February.
I have already forgotten the name but I got the impression it will be a new model of the Ultimate C380+ with the next gen (4?) Bosch "stuff".

He's working on a project with a local tech department at a school to have an "E-bike Information Day" or something with test rides available in the gymnasium. Fun- I might actually get to test ride something before spend 5K on it.

 

[kneebenderbiker]

The Current looks like it also has an M600 Bafang motor. I'm almost betting their comment on 'can be set to class 3' means on order, you can have them use their dealer tool to do a one-time alteration of max speed limit. I don't think the owner can change this - again, there's nothing 'special' or specific to their M600 - it's like every other M600 bike out there, other than the (much different, eMTB) Luna X2 with proprietary (programmable/cofnigurable) controller.
You 'could' do the max speed limit change yourself, but it's kind of messy, not press a button - needs another tool like the BESST tool, or other CANBUS programmer. There's no real issue in removing the throttle - it's a single plug connection electrically, and 1-2 screws. BTW, if you dig into the specs, both the Current and Atlas can be set to 28mph max speed... again, presumably by them before shipping to you.

I think the OP already made their decision. Bosch motors have good efficiency and general reliability, but lower power, although now you can at least get (some of) them configured to a 28mph max speed/class III in the US. The Bafang M600 is probably my favorite Bafang motor - I wish it were UART (easily configured), but it's always been a CANBUS motor with no (sane) way to configure/program other than a custom controller, which are not readily available. However, with reasonable firmware, both the M500/M510 (baby brother, lower max power version of M600) and the M600 are pretty decent including on overall 'riding feel.' The M600 is also more efficient vs e.g. the Ultra and BBHSD Bafang motors - I can do 30 miles w/out issue and still be at > 50% battery, running at lower assistance levels...I suspect the Bosch is 'probably' still more efficient, but there's no direct easy comparison, e.g. PAS 1 of 5 on the M600 is like Tour, 2 of 5 like Turbo...have tried, but I also run my M600 in 9 levels..

From what I can see, both the Current and Atlas are using more or less 'standard Chinesium' parts - no name brand groupset, wheelset, components, etc. The Gazelle has Shimano Deore brake components in contrast. I'm not a fan of the solid fork on the Current, bit I ride off-road a fair amount and rode motorcycles for a long time.

I get the idea Priority is a bit mum on the motor they use for the Current. However, some owners, in the past, had figured out which motor was used in their Current (I can't remember what it was called). One guy was able to contact the motor manufacturer and order the cable he needed to add a throttle. Made a detailed YT video. Subsequently, I read that Priority claims they do not use "said" motor. I've read elsewhere that people think the Current motor is Bafang due to the high torque - 140Nm.

PersonalIy, I think the Bafang M600, with all the other parts in the Atlas, are probably very good and would more than satisfy my needs. So would the C380+ and the Priority with what ever motor!

Priority has a lot of videos explaining all aspects of their bikes and components. They clearly state the Current ships Class 1 but the end user can set it to Class 3. The guy shows how in the video on the Current page. He also shows a lot of other features in the controller that the Gazelle C380+ lacks. In fact, Gazelle ships the most expensive belt drive ebike they offer with the lowest level Bosch controller...spend $5000 on a great bike and then $250 or is it $350 to get a decent controller.

 

[kneebenderbiker]

Here's the YT link.

View attachment 145876

See, memory isn't completely shot! Thanks rbeckert.

 

[AHicks]

I don't remember which motor the Current uses, but pretty sure it's not the Bafang M600....

 

[kneebenderbiker]

My new best friend, Logan, with whom I spent almost two hours this morning, at the LBS, enthusiastically told me that he is "scheduled" to meet with representatives from Evelo and a bunch of
E-bike brand reps (Dost and Vaast are two names he mentioned) at an upcoming dealers show. Did he say in Chicago or Las Vegas or Denver? and did he say in February? Honestly, he talked a lot and it was all very interesting but I couldn't take it all in and retain it.

Exciting - maybe they will start D2C builds and or service/ maintenance and stuff.

 

[kneebenderbiker]

I don't remember which motor the Current uses, but pretty sure it's not the Bafang M600....

Yeah, I kind of doubt that too.

 

[kneebenderbiker]

The guy at the bike shop today told me they have some bikes with Bafang motors but he didn't point them out or say which motor.

 

[Edrummer]

Wuxi Truck Run is the motor.

 

[kneebenderbiker]

Yeah, thanks, that sounds about right. The other recollection I had concerning adding a throttle to the Current was the guy had to order a case of the cables so he had some he was selling. Then later, another poster said they contacted the manufacturer for cables and got the last cables that were going to be available. He also was selling the extras and that might have been his way of helping to get rid of the

 

[kneebenderbiker]

Another thing I learned today at the bike shop is that Gazelle is not an independent company but owned by the 2nd biggest group after Giant.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Another thing I learned today at the bike shop is that Gazelle is not an independent company but owned by the 2nd biggest group after Giant.

Yes, it is Pon Bike, a Dutch consortium. What's wrong with that? Bosch motors are made in Europe (in Hungary I think).
"Our portfolio comprises more than 15 premium and iconic bike brands, including Gazelle, Cervélo, Urban Arrow, FOCUS, Santa Cruz, Kalkhoff, Veloretti, Cannondale, Schwinn, and CALOI". Of these, Gazelle, Cervelo, Focus, Santa Cruz and Cannondale are indeed premium brands.

 

[kneebenderbiker]

Nothing wrong with that at all. It's just something I didn't know before today. I thought it was independent but, apparently, not too many are independent any more. Big business for sure.
It was definitely fun listening to the guy at the bike shop today and that certainly is a good point in their favor.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

There is really nothing independent in this globalized world