Enviolo or Rohloff?

[CCroft]

You are going to love the Ultra/Rohloff combo. What size rear sprocket and front chain ring will it have?
See my Rohloff Speedhub installation thread.

Zen emailed me that the front chainring is 55T and the rear cog is 22T. Based on your experience with Ultra + Rohloff, what do you think of that combo?

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Zen emailed me that the front chainring is 55T and the rear cog is 22T. Based on your experience with Ultra + Rohloff, what do you think of that combo?

That is a 2.5 ratio. Exactly what I was initially running, which was a 40T chainring with a 16T rear cog (40/16)=2.5. Lots of climbing power. You can climb a very steep hill while relaxing, sitting down. or easily navigate rough terrain at very slow speeds. Gears 2-5 are not utilized well with that ratio. You will mostly use 6 and above for normal riding. I just now switched to a 13T rear cog giving me a 3.07 ratio, which evens out the gear steps a bit more. A fractional loss in climbing at gear 1, but still no sweat, more top end, and more usable gearing in gears 4-7.

50/22 is a good start. Easy to change out the rear cog should you decide to change the ratio later. They make 21T, 19T, 18T, 17T, 15T, 14T, 13T

You can check out these Rohloff tables for how the Chainring/Cog ratio will affect the wheel travel in meters per crank revolution. Using your ratio of (55T/22T)=2.5, you can find the equivalent ratio in the appropriate wheel size table.

Tables - Rohloff AG

www.rohloff.de

 

[Gionnirocket]

That is a 2.5 ratio. Exactly what I was initially running, which was a 40T chainring with a 16T rear cog (40/16)=2.5. Lots of climbing power. You can climb a very steep hill while relaxing, sitting down. or easily navigate rough terrain at very slow speeds. Gears 2-5 are not utilized well with that ratio. You will mostly use 6 and above for normal riding. I just now switched to a 13T rear cog giving me a 3.07 ratio, which evens out the gear steps a bit more. A fractional loss in climbing at gear 1, but still no sweat, more top end, and more usable gearing in gears 4-7.

50/22 is a good start. Easy to change out the rear cog should you decide to change the ratio later. They make 21T, 19T, 18T, 17T, 15T, 14T, 13T

You can check out these Rohloff tables for how the Chainring/Cog ratio will affect the wheel travel in meters per crank revolution. Using your ratio of (55T/22T)=2.5, you can find the equivalent ratio in the appropriate wheel size table.

Tables - Rohloff AG

www.rohloff.de

I concur.
2.5* delivers more climbing ability than I would think most would use, and gears <4 are seldom used. I'm currently at 40t/17t and was thinking of trying 44t/17t next. But as this gets further discussed I'm wondering if 46t-48t would better suit my needs.
Hard to translate meters traveled in the table to amount of force my chicken legs can put out comfortably
I'd like to shift at least 2, to more usable gears to the bottom of the range.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I concur.
2.5* delivers more climbing ability than I would think most would use, and gears <4 are seldom used. I'm currently at 40t/17t and was thinking of trying 44t/17t next. But as this gets further discussed I'm wondering if 46t-48t would better suit my needs.
Hard to translate meters traveled in the table to amount of force my chicken legs can put out comfortably
I'd like to shift at least 2, to more usable gears to the bottom of the range.

I'd go 48T. That way you can utilize more cog sizes, to find the perfect fit.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I'd go 48T. That way you can utilize more cog sizes, to find the perfect fit.

At the moment my thoughts are this...
I can comfortably do about 25mph now without stressing anything and would like to get that maybe a little closer to 30mph. Not sure I'd want to go any faster with the Johnny Watt 365 tires as I don't trust their road traction. I'm wondering if I should give the Super Moto X a go.. but then that would make my off road adventures more treacherous.
So maybe for now having a speed limiting set up might be safer.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

At the moment my thoughts are this...
I can comfortably do about 25mph now without stressing anything and would like to get that maybe a little closer to 30mph. Not sure I'd want to go any faster with the Johnny Watt 365 tires as I don't trust their road traction. I'm wondering if I should give the Super Moto X a go.. but then that would make my off road adventures more treacherous.
So maybe for now having a speed limiting set up might be safer.

Keep the Johnny Watts

 

[Gionnirocket]

Keep the Johnny Watts

Again I'll have to concur.
Always been a torque guy and never cared too much for top end.
Acceleration and climbing I find more fun.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

You can't compare rotten apples with plastic oranges.

Any electric motor of a given size and weight is going to have design tradeoffs. And there are no standardized ways that I know of that measure motor power output and torque that are in common use. And we aren't getting our motor tech specs from engineers, we are getting them from marketing which will usually just cherry pick the numbers and give us the ones that are the most impressive.

At one level it doesn't really matter. Nearly any of the existing popular mid-drive systems out there, when coupled with a drive train of sufficient range, will get you up most any hill. My own personal suspicion is that a hypothetical 50w 20Nm motor, backed up with a 500%+ gear range and clever controller programming, would probably still let you climb trees, if very slowly -- and even then probably as fast as most cyclists without a motor could manage it.

 

[AvalancheRun]

You can't compare rotten apples with plastic oranges.

Any electric motor of a given size and weight is going to have design tradeoffs. And there are no standardized ways that I know of that measure motor power output and torque that are in common use. And we aren't getting our motor tech specs from engineers, we are getting them from marketing which will usually just cherry pick the numbers and give us the ones that are the most impressive.

At one level it doesn't really matter. Nearly any of the existing popular mid-drive systems out there, when coupled with a drive train of sufficient range, will get you up most any hill. My own personal suspicion is that a hypothetical 50w 20Nm motor, backed up with a 500%+ gear range and clever controller programming, would probably still let you climb trees, if very slowly -- and even then probably as fast as most cyclists without a motor could manage it.

On the forum there is an owner of an 85 nm Bosch and 140 nm Priority Current who said they felt about the same climbing.

 

[PCeBiker]

Keep the Johnny Watts

Again I'll have to concur.
Always been a torque guy and never cared too much for top end.
Acceleration and climbing I find more fun.

I decided to buy Schwalbe Hurricane as a compromise between a street tire and an off road tire.

The tread design just makes sense to me, but that's just speculation on my part.

A review of the tire said that the transition from the smooth rolling street tread to the knobs takes some getting used to, but I figure if I don't try to lean the bike over trying to corner on the street, I should be fine?

If the tire slips out in the dirt, the knobs won't hit so hard but you've got some traction when it starts to slip away?

 

[Gionnirocket]

On my other bike I really liked these Kenda Kwick Drumlin...

Kwick Drumlin

The Kwick Drumlin E-Bike certified urban bike tire is approved for use up to 50km/h, has K-Shield puncture protection, and a durable, long lasting compound.

shop.kendatire.com

Much better road traction than the JW.. but I'd have to say a little less off road. They're very quiet with low resistance and eBike rated with flat protection.
It's finding your size that's a problem.

 

[PCeBiker]

On my other bike I really liked these Kenda Kwick Drumlin...

Kwick Drumlin

The Kwick Drumlin E-Bike certified urban bike tire is approved for use up to 50km/h, has K-Shield puncture protection, and a durable, long lasting compound.

shop.kendatire.com

Much better road traction than the JW.. but I'd have to say a little less off road. They're very quiet with low resistance and eBike rated with flat protection.
It's finding your size that's a problem.

View attachment 173278

I bought something similar for my new ebike.
I HATE knobby tires.
Way too wasteful,..

They are only bicycle rated, but I figure that the Ebike rating relates mostly to speed not weight.

I could be a 300 pound bicycle rider.

I bought a Voltbike Outback.
It came with knobby Kenda Havoc 3" tires.

 

[PCeBiker]

I sure hope that my rims have a crotch, or I'll never get the damn tires on the rims.