eMTB Options For 2024

[Prairie Dog]

A bit of action yesterday from the trails in my hometown. There are three distinct areas that we ride in succession at least once a week. Thankfully, all three trails are in close proximity which makes for super convenient transitions. I haven’t got around to uploading the other two rides but will do so as time permits.

Ok, I’ve added the other two trails that form the mainstay of our weekly rides.

We start off in an area called Garden Heights then make our way over to ‘The Bluff’ which essentially is mostly singletrack that runs alongside and, for the most part, atop the east side of the local tributary. If you like roots you’ll probably enjoy watching this video. It rained the night before so they were especially slick on this morning.

…then it’s a short ride 5-10 min ride over to the MTB Park that encompasses several different trails including the North Loop, Whipper Snapper, and Blinky. Most of the trails here are rated blue (moderate).

From there we simply cross the street and immediately hit, ‘The Pines’. A singletrack that can be approached at either end though the flow from this approach is by far the most preferable and convenient.

The Trance continues to impress. It may not be as a nimble as my buddy’s Levo but there are times when it certainly feels just as capable. I’m starting to find it difficult splitting my ride time between blacktop and trail. Not a bad position to be in, I guess.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Are you insane? Have you ever seen a finger that has had a handlebar grind it into the road at speed? Or a body that has bounced down a hill whilst still attached to a bike?

You might have touched a sensitive nerve for me....about 5 years ago I had a walking pace motorbike incident. I high sided but not with enough speed to land clear of the bike. Five crushed bones in my foot , multiple broken ribs, a punctured lung and broken shoulder

I've survived unscathed after ejections at speed in the bush , bouncing down rock strewn slopes knowing the bike is one bounce behind me.....no way will I do the death grip.

Wow, that wreck sounds brutal. I’ve been fortunate enough that most of my falls have been soft landings although I have to admit that on one occasion, I managed to perform a face plant right into a mudhole. It all came about due to a momentary indecision on the line that I was going to take. I didn’t even have anything to wipe the mud off my face as my gloves were coated in mud.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Are you insane? Have you ever seen a finger that has had a handlebar grind it into the road at speed? Or a body that has bounced down a hill whilst still attached to a bike?

You are probably thinking of off-road/technical trail situations. I'm talking on road crashes.

PDoz, you can believe me I am the person who has fallen many times on the road, bike path, or a MUP. My worst fall was at 30 km/h. As I always fall together with the e-bike (fingers on the grips), my hands never suffered, as the bike was taking the most of the impact. In the situation described, I had a severe road rash on my left forearm but nothing wrong happened to the rest of the body, and, specifically, to my fingers. I have had many crashes since, and the bar ends of my Ergons were always taking the impact, protecting my hands.

You are a very experienced MTBer/motorbiker and I cannot discuss with your experience. Yet, as far as I can remember, Chris had his baddest crash at low speed on a MUP. His fingers, chest and whatnot got the hit. Hence my question to Chris whether he kept his hands on the grips when falling.

 

[PDoz]

Wow, that wreck sounds brutal. I’ve been fortunate enough that most of my falls have been soft landings although I have to admit that on one occasion, I managed to perform a face plant right into a mudhole. It all came about due to a momentary indecision on the line that I was going to take. I didn’t even have anything to wipe the mud off my face as my gloves were coated in mud.

Yeah, it's the main reason I moved back to mtb riding instead of motorbikes. 40 years of calculated risk on motorbikes , often in environments with challenging logistics, yet my first helicopter flight was dropping the motorbike outside my shed! It did strange things to my confidence and has taken years to get back to the stage where I can enjoy blasting through the bush - admittedly on 18 kg of bike rather than 180 kg.

You are probably thinking of off-road/technical trail situations. I'm talking on road crashes.

PDoz, you can believe me I am the person who has fallen many times on the road, bike path, or a MUP. My worst fall was at 30 km/h. As I always fall together with the e-bike (fingers on the grips), my hands never suffered, as the bike was taking the most of the impact. In the situation described, I had a severe road rash on my left forearm but nothing wrong happened to the rest of the body, and, specifically, to my fingers. I have had many crashes since, and the bar ends of my Ergons were always taking the impact, protecting my hands.

You are a very experienced MTBer/motorbiker and I cannot discuss with your experience. Yet, as far as I can remember, Chris had his baddest crash at low speed on a MUP. His fingers, chest and whatnot got the hit. Hence my question to Chris whether he kept his hands on the grips when falling.

Definitely crazy - Road riding!

I haven't slid along the road since my 20's , and even then it was a race track so all I had to worry about was avoiding the other motorbikes . The prospect of grinding my skin into bitumen whilst dodging several tons of lethality...no thanks.

 

[PDoz]

My 12 yo riding the roadside track at the tip of my property. We've had a bit of rain recently.

The fugle accelerates incredibly quickly with just him aboard - I'm slogging away on the SL and he just leaves fugle in a high gear and pedals occasionally.

As an indication of how much rain - the dam is full, grass is green, snow on the alps. Life if good.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The prospect of grinding my skin into bitumen whilst dodging several tons of lethality...no thanks

I thought it was the singletrack that was lethal...

 

[PDoz]

I thought it was the singletrack that was lethal...

Several tons of metal with a distracted parent at the wheel vs a tree swaying gently in the breeze. I'm not hard core enough to road ride.

 

[Browneye]

Out of my estimated 100K miles of road, and another 100K miles of offroad, roadbikes adventure bikes and dirtbikes, 8 back injuries from crashing off road, I have only ever actually broken one bone and that is my little finger on my left had. The tendon won't lift it all the way up. My front disk rotor cut into a log cutout for a trail, and it stopped the bike, I went forward and my finger got broken on the clutch lever. Didn't even know it at the time.
But no, you let the bike go, survive yourself.
The crash that wrecked my shoulder was a switchback fall from the top trail to the bottom, bike upside down, trapped under it, with gas, coolant and oil pouring out. Got out from under it, but put my shoulder out trying to lift it upright. Shoulder still hurts after 8 years.

The armor I got suggested by Pdoz has been really great. Comfortable and protective, just excellent!

 

[Haystacks]

I’m quite fond of these knee/shin pads from 7idp. They extend down a bit further than their lite versions and appear to offer slightly more protection as they wrap a bit further around the knee. They don’t feel bulky and the compression fit along with the silicone strips hold them firmly in place. Nothing worse than wearing ill fitting pads that slip down during strenuous rides. They’re quite comfy and I don’t feel sweaty when wearing them all day long even under MTB pants.

https://7idp.co.uk/collections/knee-pads/products/sam-hill-knee
View attachment 98042
For elbow protection, I went with the POC air pads on the recommendation from a riding buddy. He has the air sleeves which extend further down the length of the arm. The air pads feel light as well perhaps offering slightly less coverage than full-on armor but they offer up great flexibility for those wanting a less bulky fitting pad. They are easy to put on and take off and the hook and loop straps keep them firmly in place.

https://na.pocsports.com/collection...ts/joint-vpd-air-elbow?variant=35593019097254

View attachment 98043

Leatt have really impressed me recently, so much so i swapped out my Oakley airbrake goggles for the velocity 6.5 enduro (vented dual panes) and scrapped my fox pads for the 3df 6.0 elbow pads and 3df 5.0 zip knee pads, they're so comfortable i often forget i have them on and trundle round the house padded up

After seeing @BarnBoy scrapes with the 7idp pads i'm not sure i'm keen, if i go down with these Leatts on i know they ain't moving

Oh and if anyones looking for some MTB feets i can also heartily recommend the new Five Ten Trailcross GTX, paired with sealskins these things are impervious to whatever the weather throws at em, same sticky sole but the treads different at the toe and heel, first adidas version i've had and i like em.

 

[BarnBoy]

@Haystacks - The 3df 6.0 elbow pads look nice and similar to the 7iDP ones I got. The issue is not the pad protection but the abrasion you will get when you fall with these warming sleeve like pads. I still suggest wearing them over a cotton long sleeve sweatshirt…

Or learn the benefits of liquid bandages….
-BB

 

[PDoz]

@Haystacks - The 3df 6.0 elbow pads look nice and similar to the 7iDP ones I got. The issue is not the pad protection but the abrasion you will get when you fall with these warming sleeve like pads. I still suggest wearing them over a cotton long sleeve sweatshirt…

Or learn the benefits of liquid bandages….
-BB

Why over rather than under a shirt? I always thought an outer garment gave at least partial protection against armour snagging ?

I'm reflecting on mechanisms of failure I've seen , and back in the hard shell era we would see elbow pads catch on rocks then peel back exposing the forearm - even a dainese body suit ( no velcro wrist band) - it took hours to dig all the bits of trail out of his forearm.

BTW , do you know if the pads in those 7's are impact hardening? I can't see any info on their site. It almost sounds like they are foam and hard shell ?

 

[BarnBoy]

@PDoz - no hard shell, just Kevlar. Kevlar (IMHO!) is as tough and abrasive as the pavement I hit. Thus a cotton layer “under” to reduce the friction and thus less of a “rug burn!”….

Not sure about the progressive hardening, but my wife could see the pads waffle pattern in my elbow scrape….
-BB

 

[Haystacks]

@Haystacks - The 3df 6.0 elbow pads look nice and similar to the 7iDP ones I got. The issue is not the pad protection but the abrasion you will get when you fall with these warming sleeve like pads. I still suggest wearing them over a cotton long sleeve sweatshirt…

Or learn the benefits of liquid bandages….
-BB

I did look at the 7idp pads as i have their helmet but i didn't like the protection they offered, as @PDoz mentions they are a sleeve with a hard shell and foam and are EN1621-2 which is CE level 2 - The maximum transmitted force must be below 9 kN, and no single value shall exceed 12 kN

Both of the Leatt pads are EN1621-1 which is CE level 1 - The maximum transmitted force must be below 18 kN, and no single value shall exceed 24 kN

The difference is the impact foam - it goes hard upon a force being exerted upon it, otherwise its soft and flexible. The elbow pads have a hardshell extending down the forearm, the knee pads do not, which i am glad of.

Why over rather than under a shirt? I always thought an outer garment gave at least partial protection against armour snagging ?

I'm reflecting on mechanisms of failure I've seen , and back in the hard shell era we would see elbow pads catch on rocks then peel back exposing the forearm - even a dainese body suit ( no velcro wrist band) - it took hours to dig all the bits of trail out of his forearm.

BTW , do you know if the pads in those 7's are impact hardening? I can't see any info on their site. It almost sounds like they are foam and hard shell ?

Gone are the days of feeling like a storm trooper or constantly adjusting pads, put em on and forget about em, i love it.

@PDoz - no hard shell, just Kevlar. Kevlar (IMHO!) is as tough and abrasive as the pavement I hit. Thus a cotton layer “under” to reduce the friction and thus less of a “rug burn!”….

Not sure about the progressive hardening, but my wife could see the pads waffle pattern in my elbow scrape….
-BB

Pads are designed to be worn next to the skin, the rubbery grippy stuff around the tops and bottoms is there to cling to your skin for grip so your pads dont slide off, by wearing over clothing you negate that element and promote slippage, as you state, the cotton layer reduces friction.

 

[PDoz]

Sigh....does anyone remember maths / physics? One would think either my 16 yo or 14 yo should be able to answer this for me.....

Imagine a hypothetical ldiot ( hi) owned a bike with fox 36 x 160 mm forks that were set up with perfect sag - 2x10 cc tokens, 87 psi, but ...err....someone misplaced the record of preferred sag after months of trailside adjustment......

now imagine another 2x10 cc tokens were added in an attempt to improve mid stroke support / bottom out resistance . Do I really have to go back to the drawing board and randomly adjust pressures between 20-30% sag, or can I back calculate what the old sag was using pressure in a cylider maths stuff? I'm pretty sure it should even be possible to back calculate what the new pressure in that smaller cylinder should start at ( yes, I know the negative chamber makes this a bit more complicated)

edit - if only life was that simple..... from what I can see, the bore is 1.275 inches but the air spring isn't as simple as a 160 mm cylinder less whatever spacers / tokens we add . Back to the original spacers, pump the shock up, measure sag and then aim at that sag with the extra tokens

 

[PDoz]

I'm surprised at how much lower pressure I settled on - 67 psi gives me 33 % sag vs the previous 87 psi ( just over 30% sag for my future reference) .

With the extra tokens the forks have more mid stroke support so were effectively sitting higher when I was cornering - hence the extra sag / lower pressures to allow a similar feel in corners.

Despite the lower pressure they have similar bottom out resistance , I dropped 1 click on rebound and now have better small bump compliance , lovely mid stroke support, and now want to source some rear shock tokens

Take home message - suspension magic defies science

 

[PDoz]

Browneye got me thinking about gloves and a bit of research came up with these. Not perfect, but they have some fantastic features. Unfortunately they fit small - so an xl is tight on my L size hand ( size 8 surgical gloves or large in latex disposable gloves)

Cycling Helmets and Apparel | Snow Helmets and Goggles | POC | POC

POC's mission is to protect lives and reduce the consequences of accidents for athletes and anyone inspired to be one.

au.pocsports.com

A few things I really like:

Designed to give impact protection whilst still allowing good single finger dexterity for braking - under that ceramic abrasion resistant layer on the 3-5 th digit is a highly flexible impact hardening pad . They offer a nice and light grip on the bars, yet rate highly on the punch a wall test. I imagine clipping a tree is going to be a lot less painfull.

That ceramic superfabric - I've seen it survive slides down the road on motorbike gear. Not quite as tough as dry leather, but tougher than wet leather. It seems to slide rather than tear? Unfortunately only on the outer digits,so hopefully someone will eventually build a full cover version?

The palm padding is a different material to the back of the hand, I think vibration absorbing rather than impact hardening? Mixed feelings about this - I already struggle with reduced bar feel due to an old neck injury, these give a little less feeling through the palms . I'm possibly imagining this, but slightly less feedback as the front wheel slides? Having said that, my gands were less tired after the first ride - I'll report back after a few big trips?

Not perfect features:

Perforated synthetic palm - very comfortable, but every one of those perforations is a potential tear point.

Only the thumb has a touch screen thing - most gloves have index as well.

Expensive. Very expensive. Getting close to quality motorbike glove price. But these offer better feel than any motorbike glove I've used, and look to iffer surprisingly good protection.

 

[Browneye]

"Expensive. Very expensive." Well gee...$109?

They ought to bring back the old style early MX gloves with the ribs on top...for $30. [shrug]

Funny...I never blinked once spending $140 for quality riding gloves for my $20K adventure bike. Or $500 for a jacket.
These Abel Brown's were the shiznit.

 

[reed scott]

"Expensive. Very expensive." Well gee...$109?

They ought to bring back the old style early MX gloves with the ribs on top...for $30. [shrug]

Funny...I never blinked once spending $140 for quality riding gloves for my $20K adventure bike. Or $500 for a jacket.
These Abel Brown's were the shiznit.

Yeah, but that was back when we had more money than sense.

 

[PDoz]

"Expensive. Very expensive." Well gee...$109?

They ought to bring back the old style early MX gloves with the ribs on top...for $30. [shrug]

Funny...I never blinked once spending $140 for quality riding gloves for my $20K adventure bike. Or $500 for a jacket.
These Abel Brown's were the shiznit.

Those are Aus $ , I ended up paying $90 aus - still more than twice the price of basic mx style gloves. Like you, I had been using quality adv gloves for decades so wasn't familiar with some of the advances.

To save on postage I added a pair of these , basically mx style gloves but instead of the ridge running along the fingers ( leaving the joint exposed) , they have impact hardening padding going across the knuckles - $39 Aus is about $25 us ? https://www.mtbdirect.com.au/dakine-sentinel-gloves?clothing-size=104&colour=112&release-year=202

 

[reed scott]

GMBN is showing some very cool stuff at a European show:

Fantastic innovations but probably mostly for lottery winners and the rich.