eMTB Options For 2024

[Stefan Mikes]

You're talking about the crank, are you?
Thirty-five newton-metres for a pedal?! You would never unscrew it afterwards. 35 Nm exceeds the capacity of a regular bike torque wrench... You need 15 Nm max to tighten the wheel thru-axle! You tighten the brake lever at 6-8 Nm. Thirty-five?! (Look at the torque table I have shown above. With 35 Nm, the pedal would be certainly listed there!)

 

[PDoz]

You're talking about the crank, are you?
Thirty-five newton-metres for a pedal?! You would never unscrew it afterwards. 35 Nm exceeds the capacity of a regular bike torque wrench... You need 15 Nm max to tighten the wheel thru-axle! You tighten the brake lever at 6-8 Nm. Thirty-five?! (Look at the torque table I have shown above. With 35 Nm, the pedal would be certainly listed there!)

No, that's what they spec the pedal insertion torque at

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[Stefan Mikes]

PDoz, I don't know what to say. I had a phone call with a Specialized technician a minute ago and he was just laughing.
No point to discuss it.

 

[Browneye]

Canyon stepping up for 2022:

 

[RandallS]

MTB stuff done today:
Put summer rubber back on LIV and lubed chain.
Then had a nap.
Then did same to Fathom.
Covid sucks...12 days since infection (best guess) - thankful for an ebike as not a lot of extra energy at present. Hopefully one and done.

 

[Nomad]

You know what I do? Use some Shimano Anti-Seize paste on the threads, then delicately tighten the pedal thread with an ordinary hex wrench. The pedal threads do not need to be strongly tightened at all!

Yes when I lube the threads and put them on they are good to go but when there not lubed or cranked on different story 23 nm for the pair I put on so less then a cassette. yes They're put on the cranks but........ No need to crank them up!

 

[m@Robertson]

I snug up my pedals with a wrench and a finger. Nothing more. I don't care what any manual says. Its never failed me. Better still its amazingly easy to stuff a bike into a car if you just take the pedals off. A Park pedal wrench or a simple crescent - I think the size is 15mm? takes that lightly tightened pedal off with ease. Of course I also use anti-seize on the threads so there's never any galling. Something I learned with wheel studs when racing cars and I was pulling wheels off 2- 3 times in a day and repeating it at the next track a few weeks later. If you don't put anti seize on the threads they wear down. thats a substance the automotive world swears by and seems to be almost unknown in cycling. Most shade-tree mechanics would rather use a thread locker and can't imagine why greasing threads would be beneficial.

 

[PedalUma]

Try the Orbea Rise. It is a real MTB and light.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A Park pedal wrench or a simple crescent - I think the size is 15mm?

All the pedals I use are served by 6 or 8 mm Allen keys.

 

[PDoz]

So I'm not the only one who realized the mechanic was giggling whilst imagining the pedal falling off?

A local ROAD bike shop fiddled around with my older daughters bike and used road bike torque a few years back - she got halfway down the first black run before noticing her pedal was coming loose !!!

Last night I was fitting new cranks on the SL so used it as an opportunity to test my 8 mm allen key perception.

" just about right" is 25 nm
" tight enough" is 35 nm
" Time to use a torque rench" is 40 nm
" Is this torque wrench broken ?" comes in between 47 and 50 nm ( the crank bolt is supposed to be at 50 nm) - this is brand new cranks / bolts / motor with grease on the threads ( ps - @m@Robertson - do you know if anti sieze is ok at these torque settings, allow on alloy ? I was taught NOT to use it on high torque alloy threads when I worked at a motorbike shop, but that was decades ago and japanese cheese has improved since then )

Before my daughters pedal incident, I used between " just about right" and " tight enough" 8 mm alien key settings and had never had an issue. I looked up the recommendations before an interesting discussion with the ROAD mechanic who will never touch my bikes again .

Do we really need to get cranky about cranking up the cranks?

 

[PDoz]

Try the Orbea Rise. It is a real MTB and light.

6.20 to 7.45 - no thanks!! How can he keep talking whilst tackling that?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So I'm not the only one who realized the mechanic was giggling whilst imagining the pedal falling off?

A local ROAD bike shop fiddled around with my older daughters bike and used road bike torque a few years back - she got halfway down the first black run before noticing her pedal was coming loose !!!

Last night I was fitting new cranks on the SL so used it as an opportunity to test my 8 mm allen key perception.

" just about right" is 25 nm
" tight enough" is 35 nm
" Time to use a torque rench" is 40 nm
" Is this torque wrench broken ?" comes in between 47 and 50 nm ( the crank bolt is supposed to be at 50 nm) - this is brand new cranks / bolts / motor with grease on the threads ( ps - @m@Robertson - do you know if anti sieze is ok at these torque settings, allow on alloy ? I was taught NOT to use it on high torque alloy threads when I worked at a motorbike shop, but that was decades ago and japanese cheese has improved since then )

Before my daughters pedal incident, I used between " just about right" and " tight enough" 8 mm alien key settings and had never had an issue. I looked up the recommendations before an interesting discussion with the ROAD mechanic who will never touch my bikes again .

Do we really need to get cranky about cranking up the cranks?

As I say, no point to discuss it. I trust your experience but won't tighten my pedals with a torque wrench, especially as mine ends at 20 Nm (as any normal bike torque wrench does).
Just replaced pedals in my Vado SL to the green coloured ones (to indicate coming of the Spring). I have tightened the pedals at "just about right" as usually. However, loosening the thread on the existing pedals was hard as it usually is (despite applying the anti-seize paste).

I had a situation when my left Stamp 7 fell off. Twice. It was because the bearings of that pedal got seized.

 

[Browneye]

Try the Orbea Rise. It is a real MTB and light.

Nice trail to ride on though.
The tech sections seem a little easier down, rather than up, as long as you don't crash. LOL
I walk them now.

 

[m@Robertson]

All the pedals I use are served by 6 or 8 mm Allen keys.

Sure, I get those if I'm lucky on a given pedal. Oftentimes they don't have the socket in the center that lets you do it the easy way. The Pedaling Innovations pedals I prefer if using flats do and that covers maybe half my bikes. I'm not sure about the old school pedals with mtb toe clips I have slated for a vintage build I am doing right now.

 

[m@Robertson]

... do you know if anti sieze is ok at these torque settings, allow on alloy ? I was taught NOT to use it on high torque alloy threads when I worked at a motorbike shop, but that was decades ago and japanese cheese has improved since then )

I think the alloy vs. steel is of no consequence. BUT what is very important is if you are lubricating threads with anti-seize, the standard rule of thumb is to back off the torque spec by 10%. 10% was what we used for wheel bolts in the paddock, and its what I've heard from race mechanics and equipment manufacturers when discussing the subject.

Hand in hand with knowing the torque spec on your parts is knowing the torque limits of your bolts. They are surprisingly low with respect to avoiding stretching the damn things. One thing I routinely do is throw away whatever bolts came with any part and replace with stainless bits. Preferably something with a heat treat. Grade 8 if non metric. I forget the metric equivalent at the moment. I am sure with anti seize and a stout torque spec you can shred some alloy threads in some circumstances if you don't back off that number by 10 points.

Metric Bolts - Tightening Torques

Recommended thightening torque metric bolts.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

Do we really need to get cranky about cranking up the cranks?

oh god don't get me started (too late ). I must have dealt with literally hundreds of user error issues over the years on this subject. People just don't understand that

1. You need to use a torque wrench
2. JIS and square taper cranks just normally loosen up a little (yeah yeah I know "ISIS" but China = square taper)
3. Over-torqueing an alloy crank onto a tapered steel spindle ruins the crankarm (ergo the torque spec and the torque wrench)
4. No you can't do it by hand and expect to get it right. 30 ft lbs with a 1/2" long automotive wrench is more force than you think.
5. Because 2. you need to check your crankarms occasionally.
6. When checking crank bolts, do NOT just set to the spec and apply pressure until *click*. You've tightened it just a tad doing that. Do it 10x over time and you're at great risk of shearing the bolt head. Back off the torque a quarter turn and completely re-apply the setting.
7. Just say no to loctite.
8. You need to use a torque wrench

I reserve the big 1/2" bruiser for my BBSHD mountings. And the car. Wera in 3/8" and 1/4" for the stuff that matters.

 

[PDoz]

Thanks, that raises an interesting question - the levo sl cranks come with blue grease on the crank to motor interface but no grease or thread lube on the bolts thread. The cranks and bb / motor thingy are alloy, I think the bolt is as well.

I used grease on the thread, which might explain why I hit " is this torque wrench broken?" at 10% below spec - damn !!!

 

[PedalUma]

@m@Robertson, I like to tighten the threads with a two foot breaker bar until the little spring pops out, then back off a quarter turn. Then I know it is just right for race day.

 

[Nomad]

I think the alloy vs. steel is of no consequence. BUT what is very important is if you are lubricating threads with anti-seize, the standard rule of thumb is to back off the torque spec by 10%. 10% was what we used for wheel bolts in the paddock, and its what I've heard from race mechanics and equipment manufacturers when discussing the subject.

Hand in hand with knowing the torque spec on your parts is knowing the torque limits of your bolts. They are surprisingly low with respect to avoiding stretching the damn things. One thing I routinely do is throw away whatever bolts came with any part and replace with stainless bits. Preferably something with a heat treat. Grade 8 if non metric. I forget the metric equivalent at the moment. I am sure with anti seize and a stout torque spec you can shred some alloy threads in some circumstances if you don't back off that number by 10 points.

Metric Bolts - Tightening Torques

Recommended thightening torque metric bolts.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

oh god don't get me started (too late ). I must have dealt with literally hundreds of user error issues over the years on this subject. People just don't understand that

1. You need to use a torque wrench
2. JIS and square taper cranks just normally loosen up a little (yeah yeah I know "ISIS" but China = square taper)
3. Over-torqueing an alloy crank onto a tapered steel spindle ruins the crankarm (ergo the torque spec and the torque wrench)
4. No you can't do it by hand and expect to get it right. 30 ft lbs with a 1/2" long automotive wrench is more force than you think.
5. Because 2. you need to check your crankarms occasionally.
6. When checking crank bolts, do NOT just set to the spec and apply pressure until *click*. You've tightened it just a tad doing that. Do it 10x over time and you're at great risk of shearing the bolt head. Back off the torque a quarter turn and completely re-apply the setting.
7. Just say no to loctite.
8. You need to use a torque wrench

I reserve the big 1/2" bruiser for my BBSHD mountings. And the car. Wera in 3/8" and 1/4" for the stuff that matters.

Some torque specs will actually list if it's lubed or dry.

 

[m@Robertson]

Some torque specs will actually list if it's lubed or dry.

I'd seen that in the past but forgot about it until your mention. Would be nice if it was more commonly done.

 

[PedalUma]

When putting in the pedals, "the little spring thing came out." That spring was the threads! That's from a customer service exchange a while ago. Over tightening is a very beginner thing. I first did that in 1978 when I broke a Raleigh crank arm bolt by over tightening.