EBR made me do it! (new Vado SL 5.0 EQ)

[fatshark]

Late to the party but well done Jeremy for taking the plunge! And that yellow- gorgeous and very SoCal! May you have many happy explorations on it. Think your adjustments like smaller chainring are very practical and it looks now very fit for purpose for where you ride. Big fan of lower gearing, makes that 35nm motor feel much more powerful.

On bags etc- yeah it's always tricky. I'm not a trunk bag fan - it's high up and behind me where I can't see it plus can't get anything out of it without dismounting. But the front light off the stem makes it tricky to have any handlebar bag of any size. I finally got a new light with a fork crown fitting - following someone on here who did this and helpfully showed how, forgotten who that was it was a while ago- this enabled me to fit a Klickfix Altura handlebar bag big enough for coats, gloves, camera food etc and with a zipped top pocket for phone keys and snack bars. Plus I have Klickfix fittings on my other bike so can use the bag on either. I'm not advocating you do this on a shiny new bike but maybe in a year or so might be a solution.

Very late to the party ... I've been away.

Another bag option is one that attaches to the handlebars. You can lower the front light using a widely-available GoPro extension bracket. I posted about this 18 months ago, and it's worked flawlessly ever since. The handlebar bag - linked in that post - is big enough for a rainjacket, or some tools and tubes, or (and most usually in my case) a slim battery to charge my rubbish phone, a small camera and/or binoculars and some snacks.

The rear rack is rarely used, though I've got a couple of Velcro straps to secure a jacket there if needed. It just holds the mudguard in place.

I've the same yellow bike as @Jeremy McCreary and am convinced it's the best colour they do .

 

[mschwett]

An oft-repeated argument for mid-drive motors is that they "take advantage" of the bike's gears. How this actually happens is seldom stated, but the usual implication is that the gears are somehow amplifying the motor torque delivered to the rear wheel.

Problem is, this can only happen when the selected gear's an underdrive (cassette cog larger than chainring). In fact, most ebikes are sold with no underdrive gears or a 1:1 at best, mid-drives included. (I look at a lot of ebike specs with gearing in mind. The Vado SL and Creo 2 are notable exceptions.)

Without modification, all available gears on an ebike are typically overdrives (cog smaller than chainring). And overdrives reduce the motor torque delivered to the drive wheel. No way around this without an internally geared hub.

As @mschwett taught me, the entity actually "taking advantage" of the gears on a mid-drive is the rider trying to keep cadence in the motor's sweet spot for efficiency and torque.

And I'd wager (1) that most mid-drive riders don't know that that's their job, and (2) that few watch their cadence or even know their motor's optimal cadence range.

Specialized University put out a video urging their riders to keep cadence above 70 rpm, but I wonder how many ever see it? I just stumbled on it by accident.

despite the lack of a meaningful underdrive in general (MTB excepted) the fact that the motor doesn’t ever have to spin so fast (since as you note it’s generally overdriven by 2-4 times!) means the internal gearing can be designed differently, in essence more underdriven, reducing a very very high internal speed down to a narrow range, say up to 90rpm. the hub drive needs to be able to produce torque up to 350 RPM or more (28mph on a 700x32 tire.) both of these situations can be designed for with the right choices in the motor, controller, battery, etc…but it’s a lot easier to make a lightweight mid drive than hub drive. If motor weight isn’t much of a factor, it’s probably a lot easier. but who wants a 10lb weight spinning at the center of their wheel

 

[PedalUma]

I just build my first Vado SL (super light) '23 today out of box. What a pleasure to work on such a lovely bike! 1) Make sure that the routing is totally clean at the handlebar (HB). Check that noting is crossed or weird. That is easy to make messy by the way it is packed with a twist with the headlight hanging off. It needs to be assembled, then the routing fixed. 2) Get grippy pedals, so you can pull back and up. It loves high cadence without clodhopper pounding down. 3) Go tubeless ASAP. This will reduce rotational mass for a more responsive feel on launches, changes, and stops. It will also prevent most flats.

 

[Chargeride]

You just have to learn some real quick, smooth shifting.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I just build my first Vado SL (super light) '23 today out of box. What a pleasure to work on such a lovely bike! 1) Make sure that the routing is totally clean at the handlebar (HB). Check that noting is crossed or weird. That is easy to make messy by the way it is packed with a twist with the headlight hanging off. It needs to be assembled, then the routing fixed. 2) Get grippy pedals, so you can pull back and up. It loves high cadence without clodhopper pounding down. 3) Go tubeless ASAP. This will reduce rotational mass for a more responsive feel on launches, changes, and stops. It will also prevent most flats.

Agree. The LBS seems to have done a good job with 1), and 2) and 3) have been worth every penny. The motor and I like the same cadence, and it's so responsive — a dream to ride.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Very late to the party ... I've been away.

Another bag option is one that attaches to the handlebars. You can lower the front light using a widely-available GoPro extension bracket. I posted about this 18 months ago, and it's worked flawlessly ever since. The handlebar bag - linked in that post - is big enough for a rainjacket, or some tools and tubes, or (and most usually in my case) a slim battery to charge my rubbish phone, a small camera and/or binoculars and some snacks.

The rear rack is rarely used, though I've got a couple of Velcro straps to secure a jacket there if needed. It just holds the mudguard in place.

I've the same yellow bike as @Jeremy McCreary and am convinced it's the best colour they do .

Thanks! Getting lots of compliments on the color, and it's my fave, too.

Well done on lowering the headlight for a handlebar bag! That's now at the top of the to-do list. Do you recall which Go Pro mount?

 

[fatshark]

Something cheap and cheerful from Amazon or eBay I think ... almost certainly this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09KV89XYR

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Something cheap and cheerful from Amazon or eBay I think ... almost certainly this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09KV89XYR

Many thanks!

Of course, no good deed goes unpunished. The link brings up the above. Could you post a screenshot of the mount when you get a chance? I know nothing about Go Pro stuff.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

If you search for something like "extension arm mount for gopro" you will find a few similar options.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Night test
The SL got its first night test tonight — just 5 solo miles around my poorly lit neighborhood, which in places gets quite dark.

o The EQ headlight is a Lezyne STVZO E115, 310 lumens. Beam pattern is pretty narrow right-left but otherwise what you'd expect with STVZO compliance. Brightness is adequate but not great. It's visible from the side as required by CA law, but just barely.

The headlight's lack of a daytime flashing mode is incomprehensible on a bike of this caliber. Even my lowly hub-drive has that! in accordance with CA law.

o The EQ taillight is a small, fender-mounted Lezyne STVZO, 11 lumens. No way to judge adequacy without a 2nd observer but probably fine.

The lack of a taillight braking indication is incomprehensible in a bike of this caliber. Even my lowly hub-drive has that!

o Making up for the lost reflectors with reflective LED slap bands on my ankles is OK for now.

Is the EQ package worth it?
In retrospect, would probably have been better off putting my own battery-powered lights on a non-EQ and adding fenders later as needed.

But hey, the EQ kickstand's nice, and near as I can tell, only the 5.0 EQ comes in yellow. That gorgeous yellow's worth most of the EQ premium by itself!

 

[mschwett]

…The headlight's lack of a daytime flashing mode is incomprehensible on a bike of this caliber. Even my lower middle-tier hub-drive has …

flashing lights are actually illegal on a bicycle (or any vehicle) in california. specialized wouldn’t sell them that way, but of course you can buy them and use them yourself, likely with no chance of any officer ever caring.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

flashing lights are actually illegal on a bicycle (or any vehicle) in california. specialized wouldn’t sell them that way, but of course you can buy them and use them yourself, likely with no chance of any officer ever caring.

Ah, right you are! Thanks for clarifying this. Post corrected.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Jeremy, your headlight is actually stronger than mine on Vado SL 4.0. You might try adjusting (tilting) it up for a better coverage. I rode my Fearless with the tail-light for three years, also often at night and no issue. (Yes, you are living in a heavily motorized world region so your needs for e-bike lighting could be more demanding). Only bear in mind your lights are powered from a small e-bike battery; some users here in the Forums actually complained the power draw for the lighting affected the range of their Vado SL!

The matter of the STOP indicator is disputable. It is not used on e-bikes in Europe as no bicycle is expected to have a STOP indicator. Moreover, brake levers used on premium bikes have no sensor to activate the braking indicator. The only exception are e-bikes built as L1e-B, or European S-Pedelecs (such as my Vado 6.0), where the braking indicator is mandated by the law. (Now, if I wanted to buy a replacement TRP Zurich brake lever for my Vado 6.0, it is impossible now as S-Pedelecs didn't catch in Europe...)

There are external rechargeable tail-lights such as Sigma Blaze Flash that automatically indicate braking based on inertia (my brother uses it on his unequipped bikes).

My Vado SL as seen from 300 m (330 yds) on a daytime ride.

 

[fatshark]

Is there really a need for cycle braking lights?

Since the topic is lights, I'll repeat my recommendation for a Garmin RTL-515 rear radar. I've now used one for 18 months, and it would be the first accessory I'd purchase for a new bike. It 'talks' to my phone running RideWithGPS and has performed flawlessly.

I live in the country, so cars are relatively few and far between, but tend to be driven fast. It's also a very scenic part of the world, and a good proportion of the drivers are tourists ... those that aren't being driven fast (usually locals) are 'rubbernecking' at the scenery and paying scant attention to what's happening on the road.

The radar indicates the presence of a car well before I can hear the engine/tyre noise. There's an audible indication of the speed the car is travelling. It's rechargeable and I get 3-4 rides per charge (of 2-3 hours each).

And it has a light ... actually, several modes, including one that flashes more frequently when a car is approaching to warn the driver.

PS In the dark, I supplement the rather weak bike rear light with a Knog 'Blinder' (though mine is an older model, also rechargeable) which is tiny and appears so bright I'd be worried about retinal burns.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

PS In the dark, I supplement the rather weak bike rear light with a Knog 'Blinder' (though mine is an older model, also rechargeable) which is tiny and appears so bright I'd be worried about retinal burns.

I use the same older Knog Road Blinder R70 on my modified Vado SL. However, I respect the drivers and do not want to blind them. During the daylight, I set the tail-light to the lowest blinking setting. After the sunset, I set the light to only two LEDs with the constant intensity. I could see my own e-bike from the distance, and believe using the "blinding" settings makes your ride less safe as the driver behind you loses their night vision, and would be certainly hating you.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Is the EQ package worth it?
In retrospect, would probably have been better off putting my own battery-powered lights on a non-EQ and adding fenders later as needed.

The non eq version already comes with the fitted lights. The rear light is tucked under the saddle and is pretty powerful. In winter if going on a long ride where I might hit dusk/night on way home I carry extra flashers in bag to strap on, when light is fading. Just as an extra precaution.

I bought the non eq version because I already had mudguards and a suitable rear rack and the bike came fitted with lights. Didn't reckon the extra £££ for that was worth it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Another bag option is one that attaches to the handlebars.

A sudden thought.
Jeremy's Vado SL is equipped with FutureShock front suspension. Hanging a handlebar bag would affect the suspension sag. Yes, there is a 'helper spring' in the FS set to be installed to increase the stiffness of the shock absorber. Is it wise to sacrifice the performance of the best suspension stem in the market to carry a handlebar bag?

If you want to carry a bag on the handlebars, the spring rate must be increased.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

A sudden thought.
Jeremy's Vado SL is equipped with FutureShock front suspension. Hanging a handlebar bag would affect the suspension sag. Yes, there is a 'helper spring' in the FS set to be installed to increase the stiffness of the shock absorber. Is it wise to sacrifice the performance of the best suspension stem in the market to carry a handlebar bag?

If you want to carry a bag on the handlebars, the spring rate must be increased.

Excellent point. The FutureShock 1.5 on my SL 5.0 is surprisingly effective for only 20 mm of travel and no damping. Back to the storage drawing board!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Excellent point. The FutureShock 1.5 on my SL 5.0 is surprisingly effective for only 20 mm of travel and no damping. Back to the storage drawing board!

Specialized/Fjällräven Handlebar Rack

A solid handlebar rack for mounting your bags in front of your bike, if a little expensive

road.cc

Make and model: Specialized/Fjallraven Handlebar Rack
Size tested: One size
Tell us what the product is for and who it's aimed at. What do the manufacturers say about it? How does that compare to your own feelings about it?
S/F says, "Versatile aluminium frame rack for transporting everything from postal packages to drybags or a tent on your bike. Attaches directly to the handlebar (fits handlebars with 31,8 mm diameter) and works with all types of bikes, except extreme downhill bikes. An anti-rotation guyline prevents the frame rack from tilting forward. Webbing straps to attach gear are not included. Part of the Fjällräven/Specialized series for urban rides and bikepacking adventures. Note: The handlebar rack is only tested and approved for aluminum handlebars."
Tell us some more about the technical aspects of the product?
From Specialized:
Light and strong aluminum construction.
Three under-rack accessory mounting holes for lights, cameras, etc.
Max load of 5kg.
Fits handlebars with 31.8 mm diameter and works with most types, including straight and drop models.
Compatible with Specialized's Future Shock suspension system.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Specialized/Fjällräven Handlebar Rack

A solid handlebar rack for mounting your bags in front of your bike, if a little expensive

road.cc

Make and model: Specialized/Fjallraven Handlebar Rack
Size tested: One size
Tell us what the product is for and who it's aimed at. What do the manufacturers say about it? How does that compare to your own feelings about it?
S/F says, "Versatile aluminium frame rack for transporting everything from postal packages to drybags or a tent on your bike. Attaches directly to the handlebar (fits handlebars with 31,8 mm diameter) and works with all types of bikes, except extreme downhill bikes. An anti-rotation guyline prevents the frame rack from tilting forward. Webbing straps to attach gear are not included. Part of the Fjällräven/Specialized series for urban rides and bikepacking adventures. Note: The handlebar rack is only tested and approved for aluminum handlebars."
Tell us some more about the technical aspects of the product?
From Specialized:
Light and strong aluminum construction.
Three under-rack accessory mounting holes for lights, cameras, etc.
Max load of 5kg.
Fits handlebars with 31.8 mm diameter and works with most types, including straight and drop models.
Compatible with Specialized's Future Shock suspension system.

Interesting!