Ebike makers: winners and losers in 5-7 years?

Where did I state you don't research? I assume anyone buying a $4k bike would do so. So sorry if you persecieved any slight, none intended. I know you haven't seen me on here every hour asking for help, that's because, so far, I haven't needed any. The jist of my post was how I saw two distinct groups of buyers, I did not feel one had more validity than the other and let me be clear, this was simply my observation not fact, opinion. What's not so great is you assume those who don't or haven't worked hard their whole life can't afford your approach, nonsense on two counts. You don't know how hard others have worked and 2) you have no clue as to what they can and can't afford. My reference to guitars was the shop vs net as a comparison. As too complexity, you never watched a luthier reset the neck on an old accoustic or do a refret job, not that I was even comparing product complexities. As far as $4k ebikes? Yeah, we agree, I would probably go with a Giant since I like our dealer. That said, I can afford to throw away 5.33 eBikes before I reach the "risk" you have in your eBike. I say that because of the palm plant I do when I read about the consumer/dealer issues on here. So my suggestion, read the entire posts before you see them as an affront on you. Not only is your way not the wrong way, they are simply right for you, not me.....who cares? So let me get back to my rattie old porch sofa, crack open a fresh one and see what Ol AliBaba has on special today.....look a $900 elec car ..screw those Tesla idiots, LOL :)
When you say “One is ok with doing some research, spending less...” you imply that the other is not. I certainly don’t assume others haven’t worked every bit as hard as I have, just that I’m glad I am in the position I’m in. I’m glad folks have choice in finding what they want at the price they want it at. I’ve ordered many items even going back to the old “mail order” out of a magazine days including some very expensive cameras/optics. But I’ve always bought brand names for quality and support reasons when any larger money was involved.
In this case, buying this way works best for me. Everyone has issues but working with a local guy, in this case, also works best for me.
 
Complexity? There's not much on an ebike that can't be understood with a little research and the most basic of mechanics skills. Now if that's not you, then you definitely took the right approach. But understand that that is for you, not everyone. Also understand that I don't consider that to be an asset and that it comes at a premium not only when you purchase the bike, but every time you walk through the door for service. Nothing wrong with that at all... but realize that some can and actually prefer to do there own service. I'm at a place in my life where I can afford just about anything my heart desires. When covid started I was starting to think about ebikes and also for a way to keep my mind occupied.. so I decided to go with one of the cheapest ebike solutions available, a mtb conversion. I can honestly say that I'm very happy that I did. I learned a lot, kept my mind on something that I enjoy and rode my ass off and lost some weight. When it comes time for a new bike I may go for one of the big names or i may go for a DTC. The point is that I like having the option and I don't think that anyone doing things differently has made some kind of mistake.
Had someone mention ego?

JRocket is in the hizzy
 
When you say “One is ok with doing some research, spending less...” you imply that the other is not. I certainly don’t assume others haven’t worked every bit as hard as I have, just that I’m glad I am in the position I’m in. I’m glad folks have choice in finding what they want at the price they want it at. I’ve ordered many items even going back to the old “mail order” out of a magazine days including some very expensive cameras/optics. But I’ve always bought brand names for quality and support reasons when any larger money was involved.
In this case, buying this way works best for me. Everyone has issues but working with a local guy, in this case, also works best for me.
Im just waking up. Am I popping popcorn 🍿
 
A Nireeka will be at my shop Mid December, to evaluate as I always do with every possible new product line. It's early stage company, but there are some interesting attributes, not just the looks, that have impressed me enough to spend my own money and see it in person. And yes normally they sell on line, but I've established an agreement with the CEO to see how being local could work out for the both of us.

For certain online only ebike firms, it could be extremely advantageous to have strategically located shops in major metro areas, that could compliment before the sale support such as custom ordering kiosks (the Nireeka has some interesting custom options that could be the source of questions) , become showrooms for test rides and in person size fit determination, and then most importantly become after the sale service centers covering a broader geography than a traditional bike shop. The industry at present is still early stage enough to where this makes sense until at least ebike adoption gets into the phase of mainstream. With a reported 85% of the general population in the US not being aware that Ebikes exist, we are far from the mainstream phase.

Personally I don't view on line buying as any threat to my business, and rather the industry is still young enough where it will likely find a merged co existence between on line and local. For Ebikes it's such a large financial purchase for most, also a large physical item, and I strongly believe consumers make the best buying decisions when they can see them physically in person, ride them, compare fit and feel, and make sure they are spending their money, not just on a good quality ebike but one that truly is a fit for their own body geometry. This one size fits all approach may be good for the vendor to keep his skus down, and thus manufacturing costs lower, but man it sure is not helping the consumer all that much. Another example of being local and importance of seeing in person, is how pictures or even videos don't really demonstrate physical size very well. This happens ALL the time when people come to my shop to check out Aventons Sinch. Almost everyone says it is much larger proportionally in person, than they ever imagined from on line imagery. The Sinch could easily be a choice for much taller people, so how many would buyers, just ignore it completely when searching on line ? And on the other end, you probably want to be at least 5' 3" to handle it well, though the seat does get very low and height above the ground makes it easy for shorter people to get on. I watched a 12 year old begging his dad to buy one for him, and he was barely 5'. He thought it was so very cool looking. It apparently reminded him of a Star Wars like vehicle. ( Maybe it was the gloss white and big black accent ? Or aerodynamic looking swooped frame ? Lol) But definitely Way too much ebike for someone his size to handle. It's also 62 lbs.

Anyway, on line purveyors aren't likely going away, and they likely aren't going to knock out LBS's either. Both will co-exist, do quite well if both have good business models, and both will likely evolve considerably from what we have been used to in on-line versus local shops in the past. There aren't a lot of product analogues out there like the size and cost of an ebike, where the product needs to be 'tested' and so this is really new territory for all sellers and even buyers.

Nobody can really forecast who will be winners or losers, and I don't think there are any historical benchmarks from other industries anyone can extrapolate from, especially not from pure analogue bikes. My opinion of course, but forecasting something like this at such an early stage is basically a roll of the dice. Perhaps Entertaining, but not likely any more meaningful that what you get out of a trip to Vegas.

Ps. When you see me knocking on line firms, I'm really just having a little fun (like pro athletes jawboning each other on the field) , and it's my own small way of MAYBE nudging at least one of them, to evolve from some really stupid stuff they are frequently doing that are not helping on line consumers one little bit. (Nor the industry as a whole) It's stuff like be more than just a proverbial price whore and add more value than just a low price (but cheap build quality) or free shipping as their primary reason for being. You know, stuff that can be changed easily, if they really wanted, but be of much more benefit to the consumer. I realize a number of you will say I'm being a hypocrite. Thank you kindly ... 🙃 ...but You have no idea of my intentions.
 
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A Nireeka will be at my shop Mid December, to evaluate as I always do with every possible new product line. It's early stage company, but there are some interesting attributes, not just the looks, that have impressed me enough to spend my own money and see it in person. And yes normally they sell on line, but I've established an agreement with the CEO to see how being local could work out for the both of us.

For certain online only ebike firms, it could be extremely advantageous to have strategically located shops in major metro areas, that could compliment after the sale support, become showrooms for test rides, and then most importantly become after the sale service centers covering a broader geography than a traditional bike shop. The industry at present is still early stage enough to where this makes sense until at least ebike adoption gets into the phase of mainstream. With a reported 85% of the general population in the US not being aware that Ebikes exist, we are far from the mainstream phase.
#mikerockstar Whoops #Edit. Mike can we get your social please?
 
Ok, so I cant ride for 7 more days per doctors order, so I am going to do my best to not torment youse guys and gals but I have to ask, who is the Summer EBR MVP, obviously its not Court-he is busy, so who is the MVP?
 
Ok, so I cant ride for 7 more days per doctors order, so I am going to do my best to not torment youse guys and gals but I have to ask, who is the Summer EBR MVP, obviously its not Court-he is busy, so who is the MVP?

That’s a tough one. What’s the criteria? Can’t be miles. Number of days? How about handicapped points for physical limitations?
I know! I got it! The total time smiling as you cruise away the miles. 😃😀😜🚴🏾‍♂️
 
That’s a tough one. What’s the criteria? Can’t be miles. Number of days? How about handicapped points for physical limitations?
I know! I got it! The total time smiling as you cruise away the miles. 😃😀😜🚴🏾‍♂️
Marci doin work. Marci, I love your attitude and if you don't watch it, you could get in the conversation...
 
A Nireeka will be at my shop Mid December, to evaluate as I always do with every possible new product line. It's early stage company, but there are some interesting attributes, not just the looks, that have impressed me enough to spend my own money and see it in person. And yes normally they sell on line, but I've established an agreement with the CEO to see how being local could work out for the both of us.

For certain online only ebike firms, it could be extremely advantageous to have strategically located shops in major metro areas, that could compliment before the sale support such as custom ordering kiosks (the Nireeka has some interesting custom options that could be the source of questions) , become showrooms for test rides and in person size fit determination, and then most importantly become after the sale service centers covering a broader geography than a traditional bike shop. The industry at present is still early stage enough to where this makes sense until at least ebike adoption gets into the phase of mainstream. With a reported 85% of the general population in the US not being aware that Ebikes exist, we are far from the mainstream phase.

Personally I don't view on line buying as any threat to my business, and rather the industry is still young enough where it will likely find a merged co existence between on line and local. For Ebikes it's such a large financial purchase for most, also a large physical item, and I strongly believe consumers make the best buying decisions when they can see them physically in person, ride them, compare fit and feel, and make sure they are spending their money, not just on a good quality ebike but one that truly is a fit for their own body geometry. This one size fits all approach may be good for the vendor to keep his skus down, and thus manufacturing costs lower, but man it sure is not helping the consumer all that much. Another example of being local and importance of seeing in person, is how pictures or even videos don't really demonstrate physical size very well. This happens ALL the time when people come to my shop to check out Aventons Sinch. Almost everyone says it is much larger proportionally in person, than they ever imagined from on line imagery. The Sinch could easily be a choice for much taller people, so how many would buyers, just ignore it completely when searching on line ? And on the other end, you probably want to be at least 5' 3" to handle it well, though the seat does get very low and height above the ground makes it easy for shorter people to get on. I watched a 12 year old begging his dad to buy one for him, and he was barely 5'. He thought it was so very cool looking. It apparently reminded him of a Star Wars like vehicle. ( Maybe it was the gloss white and big black accent ? Or aerodynamic looking swooped frame ? Lol) But definitely Way too much ebike for someone his size to handle. It's also 62 lbs.

Anyway, on line purveyors aren't likely going away, and they likely aren't going to knock out LBS's either. Both will co-exist, do quite well if both have good business models, and both will likely evolve considerably from what we have been used to in on-line versus local shops in the past. There aren't a lot of product analogues out there like the size and cost of an ebike, where the product needs to be 'tested' and so this is really new territory for all sellers and even buyers.

Nobody can really forecast who will be winners or losers, and I don't think there are any historical benchmarks from other industries anyone can extrapolate from, especially not from pure analogue bikes. My opinion of course, but forecasting something like this at such an early stage is basically a roll of the dice. Perhaps Entertaining, but not likely any more meaningful that what you get out of a trip to Vegas.

Ps. When you see me knocking on line firms, I'm really just having a little fun (like pro athletes jawboning each other on the field) , and it's my own small way of MAYBE nudging at least one of them, to evolve from some really stupid stuff they are frequently doing that are not helping on line consumers one little bit. (Nor the industry as a whole) It's stuff like be more than just a proverbial price whore and add more value than just a low price (but cheap build quality) or free shipping as their primary reason for being. You know, stuff that can be changed easily, if they really wanted, but be of much more benefit to the consumer. I realize a number of you will say I'm being a hypocrite. Thank you kindly ... 🙃 ...but You have no idea of my intentions.
Thanks for posting this because sometimes I do get the feeling you are anti-online/D2C brands but now I see you are actually more aligned with a consumer-centric strategy that I think more LBS should adopt.

That's why I asked you about Nireeka earlier because I didn't think they had any local shop network and your reasoning for partnering them is sound because I do think they have an interesting product that fills a space that many are looking at without having to go to a firm like Frey (ahem @Taylor5).

I actually think SoCal would be a great place for online vendors to establish some in-person presence because we have year-round riding weather. It's just not many of our cities are bike commuter-friendly and that's a large market in other areas.

So... uh... Mike... if you are ever interested in opening a SoCal branch, @Taylor57 will probably buy 2 or 3 ebikes from you. :)
 
Ok, so I cant ride for 7 more days per doctors order, so I am going to do my best to not torment youse guys and gals but I have to ask, who is the Summer EBR MVP, obviously its not Court-he is busy, so who is the MVP?
Ha Ha! I had to Google MVP (I am not a sports fan). Turns out it has 2 common meanings, the other being "Minimum Viable Product". That could generate some interesting conversation as well. ;)
 
Thanks for posting this because sometimes I do get the feeling you are anti-online/D2C brands but now I see you are actually more aligned with a consumer-centric strategy that I think more LBS should adopt.

That's why I asked you about Nireeka earlier because I didn't think they had any local shop network and your reasoning for partnering them is sound because I do think they have an interesting product that fills a space that many are looking at without having to go to a firm like Frey (ahem @Taylor5).

I actually think SoCal would be a great place for online vendors to establish some in-person presence because we have year-round riding weather. It's just not many of our cities are bike commuter-friendly and that's a large market in other areas.

So... uh... Mike... if you are ever interested in opening a SoCal branch, @Taylor57 will probably buy 2 or 3 ebikes from you. :)
Or 5 or 6. I cant stop. I may buy a R&M and a Bikes Direct HAL at the same time. 😎
 
When you say “One is ok with doing some research, spending less...” you imply that the other is not. I certainly don’t assume others haven’t worked every bit as hard as I have, just that I’m glad I am in the position I’m in. I’m glad folks have choice in finding what they want at the price they want it at. I’ve ordered many items even going back to the old “mail order” out of a magazine days including some very expensive cameras/optics. But I’ve always bought brand names for quality and support reasons when any larger money was involved.
In this case, buying this way works best for me. Everyone has issues but working with a local guy, in this case, also works best for me.
Ok I can see where that could be misconstrued. Sorry for that. Having been a mfg rep in a different lifetime I am only too aware that price alone does not dictate quality, since so many products are mass labeled and packaged to hit different markets and price points. As far as Trek, Giant, Specialized etc. I agree that their product and companies have invested in quality and reputation. Personally if I were to purchase, most my research would be comparing needs and features between brands. The dealer network, parts and accessories would be assumed to be pro. That was how I was portraying you, as a market and perhaps BET and myself as the other one. Then, as is always a problem for the big brands, their frontline, the dealer, can seriously effect a consumers perception. My biggest beef. I want eBikes to succeed. They are a gateway drug for a more sustainable place to live. They are also wonderful opportunity for all kinds of small business opportunities. :)
 
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