Ebike makers: winners and losers in 5-7 years?

[Explorer-1]

Mobile, non-bricks and mortar bike services already exist and even service e-bikes.

https://www.velofix.com/

The LBS will have to find innovative ways to survive during these trying times. My LBS sells, rents and services ski equipment during the slow season in order to supplement the cycling side of their business revenue.

Not in my area yet, but i hope that changes. I love the idea of the mobile bike Mechanic. I hope the future sees more bikes, and more mobile mechanics.

 

[Dallant]

Not in my area yet, but i hope that changes. I love the idea of the mobile bike Mechanic. I hope the future sees more bikes, and more mobile mechanics.

It’s clearly a biz model that has a future in the right markets.

 

[Dewey]

Those that are repping ebikes who cant or won’t work on brands they don’t sell are also making a business decision

I ride a DIY mid-drive I converted with the help of my local Giant dealer, he's happy to work on the bicycle parts, just not the electronics and I'm fine with that as I can read error codes and use a multimeter to do basic troubleshooting and I've had good parts support from California Ebike. Talking to the bike shop owner about the ebikes he sells he plugs the Yamaha motors into a desktop for remote diagnostic by a Giant technician, fits the parts they send, builds them up, he's happy. I appreciate his help removing the bottom bracket on two pedal bikes I've converted now, and given him business building several wheels on my ebikes and bought a donor pedal bike from his shop, I've probably spent two grand over 5 years in his shop. When the time comes I'm sure I'll reward his help by buying a Giant ebike from his shop. Building customer loyalty is good for business.

 

[AHicks]

^^ That's the kind of shop we should all have access to. Unfortunately, that's just not the case.

 

[BigNerd]

I think the problem is that brand specific LBS tend to not carry a good range of products, esp ebikes.

I have store near me that is a Specialized shop but luckily they understand the need for variety so they also carry non-Specialized ebikes and they are doing quite well. Meanwhile, another store only carries Specialized ebikes and they sell more analogs (still a strange term to me).

This is why people look for D2C, and if those companies have good support, partner with either a mobile service or a network of LBS, they should do fine.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Many shops do work with them and it isn’t telling half the ”story” since there are lots of these gambler stories here on this forum telling half (or less) of the story about how many fails they’ve encountered. Their egos prevent them from admitting the failures.

You don't think that this happens with those that purchased a high priced name brand bike?
From what I gather from these forums is... there is no greater ego.

 

[reed scott]

A counterpoint if you will allow me. Many shops don't want anything to do with e-bikes. They don't want to talk about them, they don't sell them, and they refuse to work on them.

Many that do sell them get exotic prices for them. Prices that are tough to justify when there's an honest attempt to match their bikes with similar bikes available from the online DTC sellers. That's if the LBS even offers something you might be interested in.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that's heard "we won't work on anything we didn't sell". Not a very endearing attitude or way to increase their customer base as far as I'm concerned. Some might even say it hints at incompetence....

The easiest way to justify paying the long dollar with a LBS is if you aren't able or are not interested in maintaining the bike yourself. Then you have no choice in the matter - unless you have a mobile service available. Those are proving to be pretty good options to dealing with an LBS.

For those that are able and willing to do their own maintenance, you DO have a choice when making the LBS or DTC call.

My point is, telling people that they SHOULD shop only at their LBS is telling only half the story. There are PLENTY of reasons dealing direct is not that bad a plan - as long as you've done your due diligence selecting one.

As far as being a "gamble" there are LBS's out there that have not so great reputations as well.

And I get the fact there are some really great people working for some really great shops out there. The problem is they are not that common, AND, shops like that can be weeks or months behind.....

I have a friend who has a lawn service business near Houston. He is hugely successful. He sells four major brands and absolutely HAD to quit servicing brands he does not carry. So much junk was coming into his shop he was severely backing up his turn around time for his regular customers who owned his brands and mostly purchased from him. Plus he was wasting major time trying to source and acquire parts for off-brand machines which further gummed up his servicing regular customers. This guy is so good he's got customers driving past several other lawn service businesses to get to his shop. His business thrives on selling new machines and on his fast turnaround time fixing critical equipment for his customers. Seems to me there is good business sense being practiced here. He may have lost some marginal businesss but many who once came to him with off-brand machines are now buying his brands.

Although you can't draw a straight line between a bike shop and a lawn service shop there are equivalencies. My local ( 100 miles distant ) bike shop sells Trek and Specialized. They need to carry some less expensive bikes as well. There's only so much top-of-the-line business to be had. The regular profit probably resides in mid level bikes. My lawn service guy friend doesn't even bother with the Rolls Royce type of equipment because ninety percent of the lawn service guys buy mid level affordable machines.

 

[reed scott]

Here's the thing.

Many people do the research, to certain extent. Usually Google reviews or watch YouTube channel like EBR.

Now, here are some common internet bikes:
Rad Power, Himiway, Spark Bikes, Amego, Rize, Surface 604, AddMotor, Juiced, Biktrix, VoltBike, Magnum, DJ Bikes, BPM Imports, and many more.

Can you identify which one is good and which is not?
They all have professional looking websites, they all appear to be American or Canadian company, such as "Designed in America" , "Assembled in Canada" , etc.
They're all on EBR, and getting normal first impression reviews like pros and cons. They all seem to have similar price point, and very similar specs like Sumsung cells, Bafang motor, Tektro brakes, SR Suntour fork, etc.

Normal people have never heard of these ebike companies. What's the difference between Stromer and Himiway? Which one is better?
Is Rad Power a good company? what about Rize and Himiway? They sure look pretty much the same thing, they look very similar.. They have Bafang motor, etc.

People that are new to ebikes honestly get overwhelmed and confused.

I know a lady who purchased Trek right away.
She wasn't even looking for an ebike, but went to the Trek Store, and happen to test ride Trek Verve step thru, and bought it the very next day.
I asked her if she explored other ebike options, she said no, because she knew she couldn't go wrong with Trek, and had money to buy one right away.

If you have the money, yeah go ahead and by Trek, Yamaha, Cannondale, Specialized, etc.. from LBS, otherwise, you're kind of let with bunch of unknown brands.
I've been there.

I don't know all those brands you listed but one stands out. Biktrix. I came very close to buying a Juggernaut FS and if I had encountered Biktrix before they ran out of large frames I would have definitely purchased the bike. It took very little research on my part to see Biktrix is a superior DTC business. Roshan jumps on problems and gets them fixed .... pronto. I have yet to see a report of Biktirx blowing off or ignoring a problem. Whereas some of the companies you listed are just the opposite.

Researching purchases on the internet is a well established practice for most these days. It's easy peasy. 12 years ago I got boat fever. I spent a full year researching boats and trying to figure out what kind of boat I would want and where I could buy it. I traveled 1500 miles to the Pac NW to get that boat and then spent a month figuring out which seller would not just get me the best deal but which one would solve any future problems and take care of my needs as I planned to spend a year fishing the local lakes. I can understand why someone doesn't want to spend a lot of time researching a not-so-expensive purchase and just buys a reputable well established brand. Me .... I have a lot of enjoyment out of researching purchases. To each his own.

 

[antboy]

I was into the thick of the computer scene when PC's first started becoming popular in the early 90's. Many MANY mfgr's, including thousands buying components and assembling PC's in their basements/garages (including me!). All that commotion settled out into just a few major manf's. Sound familiar?

My bet is the e-bike manf's will shake out/follow in a nearly identical manner, with the major component suppliers (e.g. Bafang, Tektro, etc.) still selling to the now, much more refined e-bike mfgr's.

What will be interesting to see (for me anyway), is if the e-bikes will turn into commodities like the PC's did, or if they will maintain individual identities, kinda like the car manf's have..... -Al

I agree that the computer market is just as apt a comparison as the traditional bike market.

I suspect that the "brand name" Euro and Japanese motors will keep on ticking based on market forces, and can be compared to Lenovo, Apple, Dell etc. Probably closer to Apple since each one is proprietary in it's main component.

When it comes to the DTC market, while individual bike brands may come and go, the components are pretty commoditized around Bafang (aka Intel). On the streets of Toronto, I see a LOT more Bafang on the road than the big brands combined so an LBS that can service Bafang might have a leg up, much like those indie computer/phone repair shop.

Sure, a lot of those hub bikes are food delivery people, but they need their e-bikes fixed too, and more urgently than someone riding for recreation/exercise.

Side note: I'm seeing an increase of food delivery people riding Zygg bikes here (in particular the Model V), which is a $99/m subscription, which includes maintenance, repairs, and even surprises like flats, at least according to their website.

 

[drewberz]

Innovation usually comes from the outside (so not Canyon, Trek, Giant et. al.).

I'm guessing Radpower, Vanmoof, and maybe even a present company like Zen (Ravi, I hope you are painting furiously haha!)

 

[reed scott]

Innovation usually comes from the outside (so not Canyon, Trek, Giant et. al.).

I'm guessing Radpower, Vanmoof, and maybe even a present company like Zen (Ravi, I hope you are painting furiously haha!)

Speaking of innovation from the big three or four. I am avidly waiting for the day one of them decides to put a throttle on a bike and a decent sized battery. Hey, it could happen.

 

[antboy]

Speaking of innovation from the big three or four. I am avidly waiting for the day one of them decides to put a throttle on a bike and a decent sized battery. Hey, it could happen.

If General Motors didn't throw in the towel after one generation, they could have done something interesting. Their first (only) gen motor was louder than other mid drives, but their Verity model bike is/was a fun ride, and has a boost button (essentially a simple on/off throttle) which works well getting up to speed from a stop.

 

[reed scott]

If General Motors didn't throw in the towel after one generation, they could have done something interesting. Their first (only) gen motor was louder than other mid drives, but their Verity model bike is/was a fun ride, and has a boost button (essentially a simple on/off throttle) which works well getting up to speed from a stop.

Well ... they ARE Government Motors after all.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

The companies that will disappear are those who are not customer oriented and just bringing white label bikes from China and just have a snazzy website to take the orders.
What is supposed to be a blessing will become a curse when the COVID-19 pandemic subsides in 2021. At that point, barrage of service calls, broken batteries/controllers etc will start popping up.
Right now, when the demand is high, it is easy to feel like the king of the world but you wait a few years ....

 

[drewberz]

Here's the thing.

Many people do the research, to certain extent. Usually Google reviews or watch YouTube channel like EBR.

Now, here are some common internet bikes:
Rad Power, Himiway, Spark Bikes, Amego, Rize, Surface 604, AddMotor, Juiced, Biktrix, VoltBike, Magnum, DJ Bikes, BPM Imports, and many more.

Can you identify which one is good and which is not?
They all have professional looking websites, they all appear to be American or Canadian company, such as "Designed in America" , "Assembled in Canada" , etc.
They're all on EBR, and getting normal first impression reviews like pros and cons. They all seem to have similar price point, and very similar specs like Sumsung cells, Bafang motor, Tektro brakes, SR Suntour fork, etc.

Normal people have never heard of these ebike companies. What's the difference between Stromer and Himiway? Which one is better?
Is Rad Power a good company? what about Rize and Himiway? They sure look pretty much the same thing, they look very similar.. They have Bafang motor, etc.

People that are new to ebikes honestly get overwhelmed and confused.

I know a lady who purchased Trek right away.
She wasn't even looking for an ebike, but went to the Trek Store, and happen to test ride Trek Verve step thru, and bought it the very next day.
I asked her if she explored other ebike options, she said no, because she knew she couldn't go wrong with Trek, and had money to buy one right away.

If you have the money, yeah go ahead and by Trek, Yamaha, Cannondale, Specialized, etc.. from LBS, otherwise, you're kind of let with bunch of unknown brands.
I've been there.

I think embedded in your analysis are some interesting bits.

You provide a list of 'common internet bikes', which indicates to me that you don't value them much differently from each other. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with this.

So say they are competing on price in this case. Wouldn't the one(s) with the relationships and scale be best positioned? Perhaps one(s) with the most market share, such as Rad at ~25%?

The brand value you hinted at is real and present, but can also quickly erode from low customer satisfaction (missing features, failures).

 

[Dallant]

Well ... they ARE Government Motors after all.

If General Motors didn't throw in the towel after one generation, they could have done something interesting. Their first (only) gen motor was louder than other mid drives, but their Verity model bike is/was a fun ride, and has a boost button (essentially a simple on/off throttle) which works well getting up to speed from a stop.

Just because a company stops production of something doesn’t mean it was a waste or that they won’t come back to that market later. Like how GM stopped making the Camaro & Humvee for a while, Ford the Bronco, etc.

 

[AHicks]

Just because a company stops production of something doesn’t mean it was a waste or that they won’t come back to that market later. Like how GM stopped making the Camaro & Humvee for a while, Ford the Bronco, etc.

If they see a market, a way to make it worth their trouble, you had better believe we will see them reappear - with this experience under their belt this time....

 

[Dallant]

That said, I can’t see them making a real run at ebikes but who knows?

 

[Mike_V]

"Ebike makers"?
What's mean that?
East Asian "factories" like EZbike or Sur -Ron?
Perhaps ~220 "brand names" currently listed on EBR?

 

[Deleted member 4210]

A counterpoint if you will allow me. Many shops don't want anything to do with e-bikes. They don't want to talk about them, they don't sell them, and they refuse to work on them.

.

This is true. Far too many are leading themselves to their own demise, since the only growth segment in the bike industry, is e-bikes. MTB's have plateaued, while e-MTBS are booming. Every other bike category is either flat or down. I've had a surprising number of my customers, tell me about their frustrating experience searching for ebikes at regular bike shops, and one told me the shop owner tried to steer them back to a regular non-electric bike, even after they expressed to him they really wanted an ebike, and asked him questions about the ebikes he had on his floor, that he refused to fully answer. (What the heck ??? he has an eager buyer, who only needed some questions answered. ) A search for e-shops here in the Chicago metro area with 10+ million residents, and there are only 3 of us shops that are ebike only stores, and 1 of those 3, is primarily a picture frame dealer, who happens to carry ebikes (no non-electric bikes), along with his other picture and art wares and services. 5 years ago, if you had asked me if I thought there would be a lot more ebike only shops around here, I would have flat out said yes. (I expected it to grow big time. I was wrong, and actually felt back then I was behind the curve compared to other e-shops around the country.) And further, so very few shops in the entire metro area carry more than a handful of ebikes on their floor. It has changed a little bit more this year from what I understand, according to my customers who have said they searched at other shops before coming to mine. Some of those regular LBS's likely had no other choice, as they probably ran out of regular bikes early in the season, due to Covid and high demand from the lockdowns. then had to find something to sell, beyond just repairs and parts.