Lately I have switched to waxing and find it to be vastly superior to anything I have ever used. I will leave my previous experience for the curious ones otherwise you can skip to Waxing part.
So I have worn 3 KMC 10 speed Ebike specific chains on my Haibike with Bosch CX motor. During this period I have used several different brands of lubes and here are the results.
Original Chain: Not cleaned as frequently as the later 2. Used Prolink until 1100-1200 miles in CA and the chain stretch was below 0.5. Moved to east coast and rode the bike whole winter, using rock n roll, chain stretched well over 0.5 close to 0.75 before 1450 mile mark.
Second chain: Used muc off dry mostly, later stages switched to Dumonde tech. Chain stretched to 0.5 in around 800 miles and done in 1100 miles. Half winter half summer riding.
Third chain: Used Dumonde tech exclusively, Chain is stretched to 0.75 in around 1000 miles.
Some observations about the lubes I have used(Before each application the chain is cleaner with parktool chain tool, rinsed and dried):
I will not attribute wear to the lubes I don't have enough data for that. The decrease in chain life of subsequent chains is probably due to drivetrain wear. When you put a chain on a worn drivetrain the chain will wear out faster to match the drivetrain and this is probably the reason for less chain life on each new chain.
In short Dumonde Original is my favorite. If you are only riding in dry hot weather only Prolink gold is a good choice. For strictly winter riding on snow, salt, slush I would probably go for a very thick lube like Park tool lube.
----------WAXING----------
Lately I wanted to give waxing a try. I used oz cycle's %10 PTFE %90 food grade paraffin formula( see the video below) and after 100miles on the drivetrain I am amazed how clean it is. It still shifts very crisp, the rollers are free of dirt and unless I am pushing hard chain is mostly quiet. Not as quiet as dumonde tech but quiet.
I use Gulf Wax and Runaway PTFE (Their PTFE mixes as well as the one in the video but these guys seem to know what they are selling):
Since I live in an apartment I did not use the chamicals that he suggests. Instead I used Finish line citrus degreaser(soaked without dilluting for around 30 minutes) then soap to wash it off then a shake in IPA.
This is how my chain looks after a 100 miles(update at 192 miles still looks the same, rollers are free of dirt , clean, rolling freely, update over 300 miles and cassette/ drivetrain still looks almost the same).
UPDATE
I have done 900miles on the first chain since the first time I started waxing(A total of 1150 miles on the chain). I am still measuring around %0.06-0.08 wear which is almost the same as what I measured 900 miles ago. and the drivetrain still looks like the picture. It is amazing how clean everything stays.
Bosch CX, full suspension. Installed a new 11 speed Sram chain, has done 140miles, clean and quiet.
Another 11 speed KMC on my yamaha pw-se powered gravel bike. Second application and still very clean and quiet. No measurable wear.
A word on chain wear measurement:
I do own a simple Parktool wear indicator but it only gives a go/no go answer.
Although I have a digital caliper, because it has the knife edges, it is very hard to reliable measure chain wear in between rollers(measurement that includes roller wear). I didn't want to spend $70 on a KMC caliper since it is nothing more than a cheap digital caliper with flat tips.
I can however measure stretch without the addition of roller wear( which is said to be the right measure since play in subsequent rollers cancel each other out) from outside, in between edges of outer plates. I use 5 full links (5 inches) and I can have consistent , repeatable measurements this way, 5.01 ~ 0.20 5.025~ 0.5, 5.05 ~ 0.1 wear.
So with a digital caliper with standard knife edges I measure my chains the following way. While the chain is under tension (measuring it on the bike is the best) measure 5 links from outside(every full link is 1" initially) since most standard digital calipers are 6" max this is a good length to get consistent measurements.
After 900 miles on the kmc 11 speed the chain still measures <%0.1. Waxing seems to work.
After 250miles on the Yamaha pw-se mid drive, there is no difference compared to when the chain was new. But it is too new to judge.
Bosch CX mid drive has done 400+ miles since the waxing and the wear did not increase measurably.
Below are recent pictures, one can see how clean they still are. Last time I cleaned these cassettes are 250 and 700 miles ago respectively.
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Ok I searched for it but couldn't find a general thread on the subject. We have a couple of threads on specific products or bikes.
I think this is an important topic. I will be very happy to see your experiences with different lubes, especially their longevity.
About 2.5 months ago I changed my lube to Rock n Roll extreme after seeing the great reviews and the article on how efficient it is I wanted to give it a try. It is a wax based lube, You apply it to the chain until it is dripping wet, wait a couple of minutes then wipe with a dry cloth. It does a very good job of cleaning and keeping the chain clean during the rides. At first I thought this was it.
The problem is when I started this lube I had around 1000-1100 miles and when I measured the chain with a ruler it was almost like new. After 3-4 applications and 300 miles later I measured again and it was significantly extended. To make sure I got a park tool measuring gauge and wow, around the missing link it is 0.5 (one measurement may even be 0.75!!!) and the other half is less than but close to 0.5.
Given that I rode the bike in snow twice and 3-4 times when it was raining I didn't expect this kind of wear so quickly.
Now I don't want to bash the products , I actually want to like it since it stays much much cleaner than oil based lubes and chain is silent in the first couple of days but today I gave it a light wipe and the cloth was again covered with a dark grey dust. I cleaned and lubed the chain 6 days / 40 miles ago.
Before moving onto another lube I wanted to see what others are using. I like to get more than 1500miles out of a $50 chain if possible.
Some additional information:
-It is a KMC e10 Silver chain.
-The support level I use on my Bosch is almost never over ECO, lately I actually am using custom modes and decreased the assist level to %20 percent (feels like a nice road bike, getting great mileage of course).
I may switch to Smoove since I really liked the wax based lubes but this wear issue is a deal breaker.
Your experiences will be appreciated.
So I have worn 3 KMC 10 speed Ebike specific chains on my Haibike with Bosch CX motor. During this period I have used several different brands of lubes and here are the results.
Original Chain: Not cleaned as frequently as the later 2. Used Prolink until 1100-1200 miles in CA and the chain stretch was below 0.5. Moved to east coast and rode the bike whole winter, using rock n roll, chain stretched well over 0.5 close to 0.75 before 1450 mile mark.
Second chain: Used muc off dry mostly, later stages switched to Dumonde tech. Chain stretched to 0.5 in around 800 miles and done in 1100 miles. Half winter half summer riding.
Third chain: Used Dumonde tech exclusively, Chain is stretched to 0.75 in around 1000 miles.
Some observations about the lubes I have used(Before each application the chain is cleaner with parktool chain tool, rinsed and dried):
- Prolink gold: This is a cleanish, light lube. It still gets tacky after a while however overall it is easy to apply, shifts very well and somewhat cheap. For my riding in summer this went for around 100miles before lubrication.
- Muc off dry: Very clean, shifts well when fresh but gets noisier fast. I lasts merely 50 miles for me and this left the most metal particles in the scrubber.
- Triflow: Used it once and this is my least favorite. It is heavy, drivetrain gets gunky real fast and doesn't last long
- Dumonde tech original: I think this is my favorite. The chain stays quiet, shifts are very crisp, does not get tacky easily and drivetrain stays very clean. There is a catch though, you have to wipe the chain with a dry cloth(I use a cheap microfiber tower) after the first 3-4 rides to clean the black residue coming out of the chain until the lube cures. It takes 5-10 seconds, not tacky and very easy to wipe clean unless you let it sit for a couple of days. This lube lasted around 150 miles each application and after the first application I didn't even need to use any degreaser.
- Dumonde tech Lite: This is in between the original and prolink. It is thinner than dumonde original. Lasts around 120miles. I like it but honestly I don't find any advantage over original. I would just stick with original.
- Rock n roll Extreme: Cleanest lube of all that I have tested but it is not durable at all for wet conditions. Also no matter how clean it looks from outside you still need to clean the chain before at least the first application. On wet lasted 30-40 miles.
I will not attribute wear to the lubes I don't have enough data for that. The decrease in chain life of subsequent chains is probably due to drivetrain wear. When you put a chain on a worn drivetrain the chain will wear out faster to match the drivetrain and this is probably the reason for less chain life on each new chain.
In short Dumonde Original is my favorite. If you are only riding in dry hot weather only Prolink gold is a good choice. For strictly winter riding on snow, salt, slush I would probably go for a very thick lube like Park tool lube.
----------WAXING----------
Lately I wanted to give waxing a try. I used oz cycle's %10 PTFE %90 food grade paraffin formula( see the video below) and after 100miles on the drivetrain I am amazed how clean it is. It still shifts very crisp, the rollers are free of dirt and unless I am pushing hard chain is mostly quiet. Not as quiet as dumonde tech but quiet.
I use Gulf Wax and Runaway PTFE (Their PTFE mixes as well as the one in the video but these guys seem to know what they are selling):
Since I live in an apartment I did not use the chamicals that he suggests. Instead I used Finish line citrus degreaser(soaked without dilluting for around 30 minutes) then soap to wash it off then a shake in IPA.
This is how my chain looks after a 100 miles(update at 192 miles still looks the same, rollers are free of dirt , clean, rolling freely, update over 300 miles and cassette/ drivetrain still looks almost the same).
UPDATE
I have done 900miles on the first chain since the first time I started waxing(A total of 1150 miles on the chain). I am still measuring around %0.06-0.08 wear which is almost the same as what I measured 900 miles ago. and the drivetrain still looks like the picture. It is amazing how clean everything stays.
Bosch CX, full suspension. Installed a new 11 speed Sram chain, has done 140miles, clean and quiet.
Another 11 speed KMC on my yamaha pw-se powered gravel bike. Second application and still very clean and quiet. No measurable wear.
A word on chain wear measurement:
I do own a simple Parktool wear indicator but it only gives a go/no go answer.
Although I have a digital caliper, because it has the knife edges, it is very hard to reliable measure chain wear in between rollers(measurement that includes roller wear). I didn't want to spend $70 on a KMC caliper since it is nothing more than a cheap digital caliper with flat tips.
I can however measure stretch without the addition of roller wear( which is said to be the right measure since play in subsequent rollers cancel each other out) from outside, in between edges of outer plates. I use 5 full links (5 inches) and I can have consistent , repeatable measurements this way, 5.01 ~ 0.20 5.025~ 0.5, 5.05 ~ 0.1 wear.
So with a digital caliper with standard knife edges I measure my chains the following way. While the chain is under tension (measuring it on the bike is the best) measure 5 links from outside(every full link is 1" initially) since most standard digital calipers are 6" max this is a good length to get consistent measurements.
After 900 miles on the kmc 11 speed the chain still measures <%0.1. Waxing seems to work.
After 250miles on the Yamaha pw-se mid drive, there is no difference compared to when the chain was new. But it is too new to judge.
Bosch CX mid drive has done 400+ miles since the waxing and the wear did not increase measurably.
Below are recent pictures, one can see how clean they still are. Last time I cleaned these cassettes are 250 and 700 miles ago respectively.
OLD THREAD------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I searched for it but couldn't find a general thread on the subject. We have a couple of threads on specific products or bikes.
I think this is an important topic. I will be very happy to see your experiences with different lubes, especially their longevity.
About 2.5 months ago I changed my lube to Rock n Roll extreme after seeing the great reviews and the article on how efficient it is I wanted to give it a try. It is a wax based lube, You apply it to the chain until it is dripping wet, wait a couple of minutes then wipe with a dry cloth. It does a very good job of cleaning and keeping the chain clean during the rides. At first I thought this was it.
The problem is when I started this lube I had around 1000-1100 miles and when I measured the chain with a ruler it was almost like new. After 3-4 applications and 300 miles later I measured again and it was significantly extended. To make sure I got a park tool measuring gauge and wow, around the missing link it is 0.5 (one measurement may even be 0.75!!!) and the other half is less than but close to 0.5.
Given that I rode the bike in snow twice and 3-4 times when it was raining I didn't expect this kind of wear so quickly.
Now I don't want to bash the products , I actually want to like it since it stays much much cleaner than oil based lubes and chain is silent in the first couple of days but today I gave it a light wipe and the cloth was again covered with a dark grey dust. I cleaned and lubed the chain 6 days / 40 miles ago.
Before moving onto another lube I wanted to see what others are using. I like to get more than 1500miles out of a $50 chain if possible.
Some additional information:
-It is a KMC e10 Silver chain.
-The support level I use on my Bosch is almost never over ECO, lately I actually am using custom modes and decreased the assist level to %20 percent (feels like a nice road bike, getting great mileage of course).
I may switch to Smoove since I really liked the wax based lubes but this wear issue is a deal breaker.
Your experiences will be appreciated.
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