E-bike specific Internal Gear Hub by Shimano for 2019

I have both the Alfine 8 and 11 and these are giving me good service with 90 and 110 nm motors. The Alfine 8 is an improvement over the Nexus 8 which did give some early problems. The key to any IGH is to use common sense when shifting, they don't work well in a mountain biking scenario. Shimano are close to releasing a fully enclosed transmission which apparently fits in the BB, or partially fits. Bikeradar and others have videos out on it.
 
IMO 5 speed is a little too few, I will be very happy with 7-8 gears though if the range is adequate. With regular bikes you want to be as precise and efficient as possible so higher gear count makes sense but I found this not to be the case with ebikes.

Although I agree that many people will not need %500 with ebikes I also think that below %400 becomes restrictive. The 5 speed Shimano hub has %265 range which seems too narrow.

What prevents Shimano from coming up with a solid 7/8 speed hub with a range about %400?


Feliz said:
I have both the Alfine 8 and 11 and these are giving me good service with 90 and 110 nm motors. The Alfine 8 is an improvement over the Nexus 8 which did give some early problems. The key to any IGH is to use common sense when shifting, they don't work well in a mountain biking scenario. Shimano are close to releasing a fully enclosed transmission which apparently fits in the BB, or partially fits. Bikeradar and others have videos out on it.
Click to expand...


I hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions. I really wanted to go Alfine 11 since it has a nice range and priced nicely but from what I read I see that people have mixed experiences with it(I also realized that Shimano overhauled it last year and the current version is said to be more durable than the previous one). How are you liking it for high speeds (under a combined say 600-700W load) and maybe some cross country riding?

I also see that it needs a specific shifter since indexing happens outside the hub, is the shifter durable , should one go for DI2 or manual shifter for longevity? Given that one does not shift under load do you think it is reliable?
 
Johnny said:
Although I agree that many people will not need %500 with ebikes I also think that below %400 becomes restrictive. The 5 speed Shimano hub has %265 range which seems too narrow.

What prevents Shimano from coming up with a solid 7/8 speed hub with a range about %400?
Click to expand...

This is designed for 15.5mph EU bikes in mind. I am sure it is fine upto 20mph.
The ratio of non speed bikes to speed pedelecs in EU is something like 99:1.

And EU sells several order more E-bikes than US. So, whatever you and I recommend to Shimano, absolutely means nothing. In 2017, few million Bosch motors were sold in EU where as it was something like 8000 or so in the US. Although the US market is growing, it is simply a round-off error to most companies. That is why most products are first released in the EU market. That is why companies like FOCUS, Kalkhoff etc left the US market. The infrastructure is minimal, the market is geared towards <$2000 bikes.

Here is what Mikey learnt when he went to Bosch 2020 unveiling event.

New Bosch Motors Q&A

Hey guys, I’d like to share a few thoughts on my experience at the Bosch press event for the new 2020 motors that wasn’t covered in the video. If you haven't seen it yet, here's the event video: and the ABS video: Some thoughts: The first thing I thought was, why so many motors? Bosch is...
electricbikereview.com electricbikereview.com

Mikey- said:
As it turns out, Europe has a baffling problem with eBike legislation. Here’s one example. In Germany and UK, what percentage of total Bosch eBikes use the 45kmph system? 30%? 40%? My educated guess, having worked for and in eBike shops would be about 20-30%. I was told by the UK Bosch sales manager it’s less than 1%. A Bosch eBike HQ employee told me the same thing about Germany. The problem is regulation. Getting a 45kmph bike means extra taxes, fees, registration, insurance, and mandated lights, and license plate. All of this costs about $1,000 on the outset, and about $400 a year after that. Bosch has been fighting hard to oppose restrictive legislation, like these and the “two meter rule”, which was totally foreign to me. The CEO was ardent in his opposition of this law, but I never did figure out what it was.
Click to expand...


Ideally, as you said, if Shimano were to develop a robust 10-speed IGH with 500% range specifically E-bikes, that would be great. I have a Rohloff E-bike and have never used the gears 1,2,3,4, and 5 is used very rarely.
Also, Alfine-11 doesn't perform well for E-bikes with 350+ watt motors. It was not designed for that kind of torque. You can give it a try..
 
Johnny said:
IMO 5 speed is a little too few, I will be very happy with 7-8 gears though if the range is adequate. With regular bikes you want to be as precise and efficient as possible so higher gear count makes sense but I found this not to be the case with ebikes.

Although I agree that many people will not need %500 with ebikes I also think that below %400 becomes restrictive. The 5 speed Shimano hub has %265 range which seems too narrow.

What prevents Shimano from coming up with a solid 7/8 speed hub with a range about %400?





I hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions. I really wanted to go Alfine 11 since it has a nice range and priced nicely but from what I read I see that people have mixed experiences with it(I also realized that Shimano overhauled it last year and the current version is said to be more durable than the previous one). How are you liking it for high speeds (under a combined say 600-700W load) and maybe some cross country riding?

I also see that it needs a specific shifter since indexing happens outside the hub, is the shifter durable , should one go for DI2 or manual shifter for longevity? Given that one does not shift under load do you think it is reliable?
Click to expand...

I agree, I was going to buy a bike ( mountain bike ) with the SRAM EX1 8 speed eBike specific setup and after a test ride with the bike which had a Shimano E8000 motor and I found it totally lacking

It depends on the bike, I have an eProdigy Magic Pro with the Alfine 8, the eProdigy is a very powerful mid drive unit, with all the torque I find the 8 gears fine.

The Alfine 11 is a good IGH if shifted properly, I don't believe they've made an IGH that works well for rough off road use like mountain biking. I use a gear sensor or back off pedalling when using any of my IGH including my Rohloff. I prefer manual shifting and the stock Shimano hand shifter works fine. Most of the IGH units are controlled by cables and they need to be kept adjusted and that includes the Rohloff.
 
I'd like to add my view of the 5-speed hub. I have had it just a little while and rode with the bike just above 200km so this is no long term review.

I just bought an ebike. It's the BMC Alppenchallenge AMP city with 5-speed shimano igh and belt drive.

First thing to note is that with belt you can not get very low low gear. This is because the hub has 1st gear as the 1:1 ratio. My bike has the smallest front ring and biggest coq you can get (39t x 28t). With 28” wheels the low gear will be 38”. Not particularly low but it is ok for city use.

Second thing is the big jumps between gears. It is 21% increase on all gears. That is alot! This means I'll go over the 25km/h limit on 3rd gear.

Third thing is that the hub has a lot of drag.

This all means
1. You can't gear it any lower AND keep the belt.
2. With those big jumps and drag the hub is essentially 3-speed. The motor cuts off on the third gear and then you are on your own. I've used the 4th gear only on a slight downhill. I have never used the fifth.

I think the hub is a good idea but execution isn't that geat.

I've also had trouble with shifting up. I don't know yet if the cable is binding or what but it sometimes won't release and jump to the next gear. It's a bit of a supprise when it still is on the same gear and won't change untill I change to low gears first and then go back to tall gears.

To make the hub better it should have 1:1 ratio on 3rd gear or anywhere else but 1st. Second thing would be closer gaps between the gears. Like 18% or something. Then you could actually use all the gears. Now I just think why bother with 5 gears? Just drop the top two and some weight.

As it is I don't recommend the hub. If it lasts like it should on ebike use then that is it's only strong point.
 
KK89 said:
I'd like to add my view of the 5-speed hub. I have had it just a little while and rode with the bike just above 200km so this is no long term review.

I just bought an ebike. It's the BMC Alppenchallenge AMP city with 5-speed shimano igh and belt drive.

First thing to note is that with belt you can not get very low low gear. This is because the hub has 1st gear as the 1:1 ratio. My bike has the smallest front ring and biggest coq you can get (39t x 28t). With 28” wheels the low gear will be 38”. Not particularly low but it is ok for city use.

Second thing is the big jumps between gears. It is 21% increase on all gears. That is alot! This means I'll go over the 25km/h limit on 3rd gear.

Third thing is that the hub has a lot of drag.

This all means
1. You can't gear it any lower AND keep the belt.
2. With those big jumps and drag the hub is essentially 3-speed. The motor cuts off on the third gear and then you are on your own. I've used the 4th gear only on a slight downhill. I have never used the fifth.

I think the hub is a good idea but execution isn't that geat.

I've also had trouble with shifting up. I don't know yet if the cable is binding or what but it sometimes won't release and jump to the next gear. It's a bit of a supprise when it still is on the same gear and won't change untill I change to low gears first and then go back to tall gears.

To make the hub better it should have 1:1 ratio on 3rd gear or anywhere else but 1st. Second thing would be closer gaps between the gears. Like 18% or something. Then you could actually use all the gears. Now I just think why bother with 5 gears? Just drop the top two and some weight.

As it is I don't recommend the hub. If it lasts like it should on ebike use then that is it's only strong point.
Click to expand...
Great info, thanks. Having spent an age considering the same bike (as it's available mid-pandemic!), I've read that the Nexus 5e likes a sprokets ratio of 1.3-1.5 for use with ebike - the hub isn't strong enough to cope with the torques of lower gearing combinations than that, I suppose - so switching from belt to chain to gain lower gears options might not help hub longevity.
 
KK89 said:
I'd like to add my view of the 5-speed hub. I have had it just a little while and rode with the bike just above 200km so this is no long term review.

I just bought an ebike. It's the BMC Alppenchallenge AMP city with 5-speed shimano igh and belt drive.

First thing to note is that with belt you can not get very low low gear. This is because the hub has 1st gear as the 1:1 ratio. My bike has the smallest front ring and biggest coq you can get (39t x 28t). With 28” wheels the low gear will be 38”. Not particularly low but it is ok for city use.

Second thing is the big jumps between gears. It is 21% increase on all gears. That is alot! This means I'll go over the 25km/h limit on 3rd gear.

Third thing is that the hub has a lot of drag.

This all means
1. You can't gear it any lower AND keep the belt.
2. With those big jumps and drag the hub is essentially 3-speed. The motor cuts off on the third gear and then you are on your own. I've used the 4th gear only on a slight downhill. I have never used the fifth.

I think the hub is a good idea but execution isn't that geat.

I've also had trouble with shifting up. I don't know yet if the cable is binding or what but it sometimes won't release and jump to the next gear. It's a bit of a supprise when it still is on the same gear and won't change untill I change to low gears first and then go back to tall gears.

To make the hub better it should have 1:1 ratio on 3rd gear or anywhere else but 1st. Second thing would be closer gaps between the gears. Like 18% or something. Then you could actually use all the gears. Now I just think why bother with 5 gears? Just drop the top two and some weight.

As it is I don't recommend the hub. If it lasts like it should on ebike use then that is it's only strong point.
Click to expand...
I've just read in the Gates 2020 manual (page 40) that there's a 32 sprocket available for use with the nexus inter 5e hub gear. Might be worth a look, though 39/32 is 1.21, so a bit outside the (iirc) recommended 1.3-1.5 range for this hub.
 
EdinburghJim said:
I've just read in the Gates 2020 manual (page 40) that there's a 32 sprocket available for use with the nexus inter 5e hub gear. Might be worth a look, though 39/32 is 1.21, so a bit outside the (iirc) recommended 1.3-1.5 range for this hub.
Click to expand...
I am aware of it. Though it is hard to find and requires longer belt. So it will be quite expensive change.

I used teflon based oil meant for rollerblade bearings to the hubs shifting mechanism. The sticking has gone away and has not returned yet.

I treat the hub as a three speed and as such it works ok now.
 
KK89 said:
I used teflon based oil meant for rollerblade bearings to the hubs shifting mechanism. The sticking has gone away and has not returned yet.
Click to expand...
Great suggestion. My bike had exactly the same issue, in particular shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. It now shifts very smooth without problems!

My bike (Kalkhoff image 3.b excite blx) has a 46 front and 28 rear sprocket. I think it's great because I tuned it so the 4th and 5th gear are very useful.
 
jrtemp said:
Great suggestion. My bike had exactly the same issue, in particular shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. It now shifts very smooth without problems!

My bike (Kalkhoff image 3.b excite blx) has a 46 front and 28 rear sprocket. I think it's great because I tuned it so the 4th and 5th gear are very useful.
Click to expand...
With 700c wheels you have 45” long ”small” gear. That's crazy tall. Whole range is 44,9-118.0” exactly. I live in a fairly flat area and am still wanting a lower gear with my 38.1–100.1” range.
 
Wheels are 28inch (same as 700c), bike is also belt driven. I live in the Netherlands, the landscape is completely flat (unfortunately), speed is usually around 35-45km/h. Normally the engine stops the support at 25km/h (by law), indeed gears 1 to 3 are most opportune. I'm using a (hidden) tuning device to bypass this limitation.
 
jrtemp said:
Wheels are 28inch (same as 700c), bike is also belt driven. I live in the Netherlands, the landscape is completely flat (unfortunately), speed is usually around 35-45km/h. Normally the engine stops the support at 25km/h (by law), indeed gears 1 to 3 are most opportune. I'm using a (hidden) tuning device to bypass this limitation.
Click to expand...
Inside my three-speeds I use the oil intended for machine guns. It does not get sticky. I pull the shifting plunger after laying the bike on its left side and fill the hole with oil using the plunger to help. Here is one of my electric Dutch style three-speeds. The Alfines I take apart and soak.
 

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ace5000 said:
Hello
I'm interested in Shimano's STEPS E-BIKE Dedicated Mechanical Internal Geared Hub 5-speed. This would be mated on a DIY 700c Trek bike with a BBS02B 750 for street use. Any input on this?

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/prod...trekking-e-bike-e6100-series/SG-C7000-5V.html



​

Click to expand...
Read my comments. If you are a casual rider and never ride in freezing temps then maybe it could work for you. Just remember it really is a 3-speed. But if you are an avid cyclist, like smooth low drag bicycles and are going to ride also in the freezing temps then this hub is garbage for that.
 
Do u have a recommendation for casual city riding that is not an arm or a leg? I have a bbso2b. Thanks.
 
Xyeet said:

Shimano released new 5 speed automatic shifting igh for ebikes.
Click to expand...
It is DI2. And only connects to a proprietary torque sensor. It will not work with most bikes and will cost over $1000. And you will not be able to down shift into a corner. It will be a seller on some new high end bikes.
 
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