does 35-40mph throttle only 30 mile range under $5k exist

[AHicks]

This is ridiculous. You absolutely do not need a throttle for any ebike. This is extra true if your intent is to exercise. Throttles can paper over poor technique (forgetting to shift into a proper gear before stopping at an intersection, approaching a hill, etc) but thats all stuff you can simply learn to do. I've been riding ebikes for years (and normal bikes for decades) and have never once needed a throttle.

Throttles have their place, especially in urban environments with a lot of start/stopping or bikes that carry loads. If you want one, definitely get one. But they aren't a necessity.

I won't argue the point that you don't NEED a throttle, but in that same breath, I would add you don't NEED an automatic transmission or power windows in your car/truck either. Point being, even if they aren't necessary, they're a darn handy accessory....

 

[tomjasz]

I think once you ride this 40mph bike a few times, the novelty will be gone, and from that point the need for 40mph will be a moot issue. It takes HUGE power to go 40mph, or even 25mph for that matter. Range at that kind of speed is going to suck.... Once you see what these speeds to to the distance you can go on a charge first hand, that's going to slow you down, lessen the interest in a lot of speed.

BBSHD 48V 31-32MPH, 52V 32-33MPH.

72V batteries are more and more common, the same BBSHD with aftermarket internal and external controllers are handily running at 40MPH. THIS IMNSHO will bring on a class system and it’s support and the nanny states pressing the enforcement. Watt wagon appears to be jumping on with Luna(tics) and eMotocycles with pedals. It’s bound to happen, a few deaths and disasters will explode in the press and a poor AARP rider will pay the price.

Throughout my years of support I watched 33MPH kits being put on $250-$350 Walmart bikes whose brakes were hardly capable of reasonable panic stop distances at 10MPH.

​

2) Live fast, die young​

I can’t believe I’m not dead yet, I’ve been reckless in the extreme since I hit puberty. That part of the brain that tells you when to run away? Yeah, I don’t have that part. Somehow, I have survived. If you manage to make it to your 70’s, you can choose to be like my good friend Eric who is still shredding it on high power ebikes in the deep Pow! Be like Eric when you grow up, don’t be like all the old people in Florida pedaling around their retirement resorts on 250W ebikes. *yawn*

To be clear, it gets old pretty fast posting nice things on social media about people who end up dying on their high power ebikes, so save us the trouble and just don’t get killed on your Fast Electric Bike. Die the right way, in bed, at 90, with an empty bottle of viagra and surrounded by a mob of angry, unpaid hookers.

 

[tomjasz]

I won't argue the point that you don't NEED a throttle

Why not? Some days I absolutely do. f*ck all on their high horses beating dead horses from their arrogant perceived high ground.

 

[jabberwocky]

I agree, no one needs a throttle even hub motor ebikes. But are nice to have and for the less experienced can be considered a safety device. On my high powered mid drive I use it pretty much only for low speed applications like mounting the bike, u-turns, getting over a rocky section where you would otherwise pedal strike. I use it more often on my 500w hub bike to get through intersections quicker after stopping and to get full power out of the motor when going uphill as the torque sensor never puts out max power by pedalling alone.

I do think the differing opinions on this are mainly divided among the "coming to ebikes from cycling" vs "coming to ebikes from cars". People who have cycled for a long time and get into ebikes already have start/stop/shifting technique down and the added power getting started feels amazing and a throttle completely unnecessary. People who move from motorcycles/cars don't and feel anxious when they can't accelerate quickly from a stop or like the ability to get things started even in suboptimal gears.

Different strokes and all that. Buy whatever floats your boat, you don't need to justify it to a bunch of internet weirdos. But I take exception to the proclamation that throttles are necessary for, well, anything.

 

[jabberwocky]

Throughout my years of support I watched 33MPH kits being put on $250-$350 Walmart bikes whose brakes were hardly capable of reasonable panic stop distances at 10MPH.

There was a dude I'd see regularly on the local MUP for a while with some janky converted 90s mountainbike with a giant hub motor. I always winced when he came flying down the trail, because he was going way too fast and it was obvious the bike was not up to what he was doing. You could hear him start braking like 10 seconds before an intersection, because those decades old rim brakes barely worked and he was going 30-35mph. Bike had like an old SID fork on it, which was famously noodly and you could see the whole front end flexing and twisting under braking. Scary.

Haven't seen him in a year or two. Dunno if he moved, got chewed out by someone with authority or ended up killing himself. I wouldn't ride that bike, and I used to jump off cliffs on my old Turner Highline.

 

[tomjasz]

But I take exception to the proclamation that throttles are necessary for, well, anything

"I learned that very often the most intolerant and narrow-minded people are the ones who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness."

Christopher Hitchens

Once again, an able person decides for the less than able...
FFS, you don’t need handicapped ramps, so who (no one) needs them?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I won't argue the point that you don't NEED a throttle, but in that same breath, I would add you don't NEED an automatic transmission or power windows either. Point being, even if they aren't necessary, they're a darn handy accessory....

I'd argue that both automatic transmissions and power windows are silly accessories on any bicycle, electric or not.

 

[AHicks]

I'd argue that both automatic transmissions and power windows are silly accessories on any bicycle, electric or not.

OK fine. I went back and edited it so nobody would be looking for the power window option at the bike shop....

You, if anyone, should know first hand automatic transmission equipped bikes are NOT all that silly.....

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You, if anyone, should know first hand automatic transmission equipped bikes are NOT all that silly.....

They are not silly only for a person who has never ridden a bicycle but spent all their life in an automatic transmission car.

 

[rich c]

Whatever you buy, you'll need two battery packs to meet you parameters of a scooter. And by the way, scooters are cheaper.

 

[Taylor57]

except I do that on my mid drive all the time. I have actually popped a wheelie when feeling really good. a throttle has nothing to do with exercise. The things your saying you need a trottle for are the things that a hub drive and a cadence sensor causes. not knocking it but just keeping it real. using your gearing right will limit these problems a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, well my daily driver has no gearing and it's a pain in the ass. Ride 1 Up Gravelster. Single speed.

 

[m@Robertson]

I do think the differing opinions on this are mainly divided among the "coming to ebikes from cycling" vs "coming to ebikes from cars". People who have cycled for a long time and get into ebikes already have start/stop/shifting technique down and the added power getting started feels amazing and a throttle completely unnecessary. People who move from motorcycles/cars don't and feel anxious when they can't accelerate quickly from a stop or like the ability to get things started even in suboptimal gears.

I think its entirely different from that... and much simpler (there are more reasons but what follows is the One Big One). The reason for the unbridgeable gulf in this tiresome, never-ending circular debate is because people ride fundamentally differently. People who ride for pleasure and recreation tend to ride in areas where the going is a lot easier in terms of distractions (paths, country roads... less or zero traffic and far fewer stoplights). Additionally their mindset is much more likely to be entirely focused on attaining the zen that comes from the cycling experience. This is far more likely to be a population consisting of analog cyclists who have at least dipped their toes in over to the Dark Side. But maybe they have not quite admitted that, or stopped feeling a little guilty about it. And as such they've dug their trenches and aren't coming out.

People who ride bikes for utility - commuters, shoppers and those who use them as automobile replacements - live in an almost entirely different world. Theirs is generally an urban environment. Riding on city streets alongside traffic in particular. They have places to go, things to do, missions to accomplish. All of which are utterly unrelated to the riding experience. The ride in fact is just a means to an end. For these people, practicality rules, and they are faced with a day to day reality that no amount of speechifying or preaching will change.

• I have a thing at 6:00 pm and I have to get back home from work fast. Pedaling is 20 mph. Throttling is 25 and I'm not sweaty. Throttle it is for tonight's ride home.
• I put in extra miles on the bank run and the grocery store detour. I put in my work for today lets take it easy on the last leg and ghost pedal on throttle.
• If I don't hit the throttle for a little more speed right now, that light I am coming up on is going red and I will have to stop for 3 minutes and piss away all that momentum I built up.
• If I go faster in rush hour when its crowded, closing rates with the cars are almost nothing since we are all going the same speed and more people actually seem to see me.
• 10 mph on the bike path with earbudded imbeciles and tree root bumps, or 25 mph on the bike lane in the street and I stay mindful of traffic. Every day I have to decide whether I its either 2 hrs traveling ... or 1:30. 25 it is.
• ... on and on and on

None of this is stuff a recreational cyclist encounters at any level of frequency. Certainly not multiple times per day as part of their normal, day to day slog. Its no wonder they think a throttle is ridiculous. And its no wonder the utility cyclists think the anti-throttlers are morons.

We simply live in different worlds.

If your bike works for a living, or its part of your relaxation regimen, you have a totally different school of thought on what cycling is. Until some tolerance around this is built up - and we cyclists are infamously arrogant about our opinions - this is going to go around and round. Forever.

p.s. a throttle 'getting things started in suboptimal gears' is not a real thing. Doing that is how you break your bike. Crack a small cog. Bend a chainring or snap the chain. The throttle is not the solution to bad gear shift habits... its the primary problem.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

You, if anyone, should know first hand automatic transmission equipped bikes are NOT all that silly.....

Internally geared hubs are in no way an automatic transmission. And even a Rohloff E-14 isn't automatic like an automotive automatic transmission is.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

People who ride bikes for utility - commuters, shoppers and those who use them as automobile replacements - live in an almost entirely different world. Theirs is generally an urban environment. Riding on city streets alongside traffic in particular. They have places to go, things to do, missions to accomplish. All of which are utterly unrelated to the riding experience. The ride in fact is just a means to an end. For these people, practicality rules, and they are faced with a day to day reality that no amount of speechifying or preaching will change.

Under that reasoning, very few people in Europe would be riding e-bikes. My Own Two Eyes tells me that e-bikes are quite popular in Europe and are in some cases out-selling acoustic bikes. So I'm a touch skeptical with the above reasoning.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Under that reasoning, very few people in Europe would be riding e-bikes. My Own Two Eyes tells me that e-bikes are quite popular in Europe and are in some cases out-selling acoustic bikes. So I'm a touch skeptical with the above reasoning.

right I chose a bosch mid drive because I wanted a bike that felt like a bike. I ride 100 miles a week commuting and more running errands and such. the feel of the bike makes it much more enjoyable.

 

[m@Robertson]

Under that reasoning, very few people in Europe would be riding e-bikes. My Own Two Eyes tells me that e-bikes are quite popular in Europe and are in some cases out-selling acoustic bikes. So I'm a touch skeptical with the above reasoning.

In the EU there is no comparison because throttles are not available unless you step up to a special - very expensive - category of fast ebike that must be both licensed and insured. Apples and oranges in that marketplace. Its nothing like it is here in the USA where throttle bikes are widely, and easily available.

 

[jabberwocky]

I think its entirely different from that... and much simpler (there are more reasons but what follows is the One Big One). The reason for the unbridgeable gulf in this tiresome, never-ending circular debate is because people ride fundamentally differently. People who ride for pleasure and recreation tend to ride in areas where the going is a lot easier in terms of distractions (paths, country roads... less or zero traffic and far fewer stoplights). Additionally their mindset is much more likely to be entirely focused on attaining the zen that comes from the cycling experience. This is far more likely to be a population consisting of analog cyclists who have at least dipped their toes in over to the Dark Side. But maybe they have not quite admitted that, or stopped feeling a little guilty about it. And as such they've dug their trenches and aren't coming out.

Interesting. My experience is the opposite. I know people who live partially (or entirely) car free, and most don't have ebikes at all. Those that do tend to have basic class 1 or 2 cargo bikes or utility bikes that supplement their normal bikes for errand running, and they aren't using them to go 25mph. Conversely, most people I know with electric bikes ride them primarily for fun (I'm in this category, though I bike commuted for 15 years when I had an office job, about half of that in very bike-unfriendly places).

 

[jabberwocky]

I also think the idea that cyclists (electric or non) can be separated into recreational cyclists and utility cyclists is a massive oversimplification. I'd bet the majority of people who ride for fun also commute or run errands by bike sometimes, and people who get a bike purely as a utilitarian car replacement find they ride for fun sometimes too.

And to be clear, I have no issue with wanting a throttle. I just think its silly when people instantly jump to "an ebike needs a throttle to be useful!", which I think is rarely actually true (absent a physical disability that precludes the ability to pedal).

 

[m@Robertson]

Interesting. My experience is the opposite. I know people who live partially (or entirely) car free, and most don't have ebikes at all. Those that do tend to have basic class 1 or 2 cargo bikes or utility bikes that supplement their normal bikes for errand running, and they aren't using them to go 25mph. Conversely, most people I know with electric bikes ride them primarily for fun (I'm in this category, though I bike commuted for 15 years when I had an office job, about half of that in very bike-unfriendly places).

The speed issue is definitely location-influenced. Here where I am in Monterey, I'll be mostly using a shared-path and will be peaking at around 15 mph simply because thats all that can be safely managed on the path. But on a weekday like today, heading out over to Seaside Home Depot, I can probably cut thru Cannery Row (thats a city street) and 25 will be no problem on that stretch. And worth mentioning... going downhill from near my home to sea level, I will be shooting down at 35 mph no problem, because steep downhill. Cyclists have been doing that forever on city streets and nobody freaks out over it. In Fresno I have streets like you see on this link. 25-30 mph on a 15 mile commute makes a whole lot more sense than 15. For the same reason you don't want to drive at 15 mph all the time in a car. Simple convenience. This is the street I was thinking of when I mentioned hitting throttle to make a green light while it was still green.

I have had multiple opportunities to ride city streets in various Belgian metro areas, and just very recently spent a day on an ebike touring Amsterdam. In that kind of environment, speed is a non issue as you can't go fast and be safe. There is just orders of magnitude more traffic on foot, tram, bicycle and car - coming at you in all directions. Its a different world and slower speeds there simply have to be recognized as sane and normal. I had a bit of time to clock my speed in Amsterdam and found that when I was up past 10 mph and in the 12-14 range I was feeling very much like I was going too fast for conditions. But man oh man did I miss that throttle when trying to get off the line crowded in with literally 20+ cyclists very nearly shoulder to shoulder. I got by but the luxury of a throttle was missed.

 

[m@Robertson]

... I just think its silly when people instantly jump to "an ebike needs a throttle to be useful!", which I think is rarely actually true (absent a physical disability that precludes the ability to pedal).

Agree completely. A throttle is a tool in the toolbox. You don't need a motor, either, but you use one because it makes the job easier.

Myself, I'm almost exclusively a pedaler despite what you might gather from my posting above. The throttle is used a bit here and there to make things a bit easier across a broad spectrum of daily use.