Court's Bosch vs. Yamaha Mid-Drive Comparisons

[pxpaulx]

You can get the sduro in about twenty different versions as well. I've provided a clear example showing that haibike charges $1k more for the xduro. Can you point me to a direct model comparison where an xduro version is only $1k more but has significantly better components?

I can't find any. My point is I've spoken to Lenny about the differences in person, provided a 2016 sduro to xduro comparison showing the cost difference, but you rebutted my statement without any actual information. If you check the European prices, where both bikes have been out over a year, you'll see the Bosch is demanding such a premium over the Yamaha, on its own, before any other differences in the other model specs

 

[MLB]

I'm quoting the magazine review! And I clearly stated the bikes (same) read the post!
I paid $2k (delivered) for my demo FS RX (14 miles) from Lenny. Watch the deals

 

[pxpaulx]

Maybe they weren't given the same model equivalents to compare? I've read and watched as many reviews as there are out there at this point, none of them have said what that article has about the price difference.

 

[EddieJ]

from EB Action review: difference in fork and brake spec justifies a $1,000 difference in price (29'er Sduro vs CX Xduro) meaning with equiv. specs the price diff is really $200. "For a good portion of our test crew that difference was an immediate decider. "CX has a fun, quick and effective feel with almost no acclimatization time. "The Yamaha PW is less forgiving of pedal rpm or cadence, so it does require a learning curve and shifting more often and more precisely". "No matter which, both make the parent co. proud".

They are much more similar than they are different.

In order to make comparative differences in component spec and price, could you post up a link to both of the bikes that you have mentioned?

The Sduro 29 has three variants that I could see, and I'm guess that the Xduro will probably be the same.

 

[MLB]

I've got no dog in this fight.

 

[Jack Tyler]

For those of you reading this discussion on mid-drive motors (and Court's guide), you might appreciate a thorough demo of the display systems on these two most common systems. A Utah ebike store - Blue Monkey - has done a nice job of producing those demos and the links are below. While Court covers these displays in each of his reviews, the close-ups and screen annotations used in these youtube demos make things crystal clear.

Yamaha Display
Bosch Display

Jack

 

[pxpaulx]

Yamaha link is broken! Wish he had pointed out the USB port on the Yamaha, a nice feature that isn't immediately obvious as it is on the bottom of the thumb control. Ble monkey does great videos though!

 

[Jack Tyler]

That's strange...

Here's the Yamaha display video from Blue Monkey that - at least right now - is working for me. Thanks for the Heads Up.

 

[NoDTMF]

I have Bosch active line, not ridden the Yamaha. I've climbed some pretty steep off road hills, wishing that I had the performance line at times. And this the reason for my post...Bosch won't let me upgrade the motor! In fact, they said "you don't upgrade motors in your car, so why do you think you can do it for your bike"

That logic isn't even logic, makes me very sad. If Yamaha has different motors that are direct Bolt-in replacements that might be worth considering.

 

[wren]

I'm quoting the magazine review! And I clearly stated the bikes (same) read the post!
I paid $2k (delivered) for my demo FS RX (14 miles) from Lenny. Watch the deals

Nice! As I recall you were very decisive, buying it almost immediately. Looks good!
Makes me a little sad when people say they can't get a Bosch for under $3,000. Retail is so high.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

I want to chime in my 50 cents. First, I don't have a Bosch nor a Yamaha but I have a 350 watt Tranzx middrive (2015 Raleigh Tekoa IE) and I also have 2 other ebikes that are hub driven. I was initially dismayed with the mid drive since it does not match my cadence preference. My usual cadence varies from 80 to 110 and sometimes a quick burst of acceleration will put me spinning to a crazy 145 RPM before upshift. Coourt demonstrated that he can climb faster and pedal at a higher cadence rate with the Bosch vs the Yamaha. That would suggest that Bosch motor continue to feed power at higher cadence while the Yamaha comes hard early on but also dies off at lower top end (maybe 90~ RPM?). My Tekoa dies out at 102 RPM, since I have limited RPM range, I have to be more mindful with the cadence reading all the time to optimize my power combination (muscle:motor power).

With all the jiberish talk I just blurted out, it would greatly help if the torque curve is available, plotted against crank RPM. We always look at those torque and power curves on car engines, including Tesla, why aren't we looking at our ebikes?

FYI, you can maximize the full potential of your mid drive by using a cadence meter (assuming you already knew the cadence range and limits of your motor). It does not just measures your crank RPM, it also measures your motor RPM (since they're tied together when activated), it's like the tachometer in your car where you will know if you are in the optimum zone, over revving or under revving.

And I use a cheap wired bicycle speedometer converted into a cadence meter. There is no missed signal, and no interference from the bike's electronics as compared to the wireless version.

 

[NoDTMF]

The Bosch system has little arrows that tell you to shift up or down. I haven't quite figured out exactly why or when they come on, but they seem to help when I notice them.

 

[pxpaulx]

I'm sure they are just there to suggest you change gears to keep the motor running at its most optimum performance range - same reason you don't drive a stick shift in 2nd gear at 60mph!

The Yamaha display has a power level indicator, though it doesn't tell you when to shift it is easy to combine your own pedal power input in conjunction with the motor output power indicator to keep the motor use low and economic, even if you're running the bike at medium power levels.

 

[munchmeister]

Sweet Geebus! My head is spinning. Think I'll go buy the Scott E Sub Tour that is on sale (~2700) and start riding the danged thing. I'll adapt. Bosch oughta be good enough for who it's for!