Companies and ebike models that support or would facilitate upgrades - particularly with batteries or motors

[Dallant]

Get one of those belt driven superchargers, easy on the throttle though ,maybe that belt driven emotor booster will come to fruition, I was on the list,have not heard since.

Maybe someday I’ll make Stefan’s day and buy a Specialized “Turbo”!

 

[reed scott]

Just my two cents worth: The bigger more dominant the company .... the faster they will use 'innovation' to make you want to buy the latest and greatest and the sooner they will make parts non backwards compatible.

 

[Stuart B]

Just my two cents worth: The bigger more dominant the company .... the faster they will use 'innovation' to make you want to buy the latest and greatest and the sooner they will make parts non backwards compatible.

It just takes one company with a vision!...to bring the others in line.

 

[Jason9142002]

Hello,
I am new to bikes. I have ridden bikes without motors my whole life. I recently bought a bafang mid-drive kit. They offer parts of the kit to be replaced (for repair but not upgrade I believe). I believe the kits to be simple: batteries, motor, controls. Am I reading the post wrong, are we talking about complete bikes or kits? I like the idea of parts being available in case I wreck something or it fails in time. I am hoping to get many years out of my new setup. I only paid $1300 and I am installing it on my Cannondale mountain bike.

 

[RunForTheHills]

There has to be enough bikes of a particular model out there to justify manufacturers selling aftermarket parts for it. The Brompton has a lot of proprietary parts, but you can get aftermarket upgrades for them because Brompton hasn't changed the design much over the last couple of decades, so there are a lot of potential customers out there.

 

[Stuart B]

Hello,
I am new to bikes. I have ridden bikes without motors my whole life. I recently bought a bafang mid-drive kit. They offer parts of the kit to be replaced (for repair but not upgrade I believe). I believe the kits to be simple: batteries, motor, controls. Am I reading the post wrong, are we talking about complete bikes or kits? I like the idea of parts being available in case I wreck something or it fails in time. I am hoping to get many years out of my new setup. I only paid $1300 and I am installing it on my Cannondale mountain bike.

cool. I like the idea, though my current bike is pretty worn out and not of great quality. like the idea!

 

[Merle Nelson]

I have not read all of every post in this thread. But, many posts seem like the writer would enjoy knowing that part of Watt Wagons core philosophy for their bikes is to always be able to upgrade your bike with any newer and better components that come out. All the way to ordering a new frame to go with your already high end components if that is called for.

 

[Scona]

Ebikes = phones, for what I suspect are all the same reasons: volume efficiency, a controllable, quality user experience, and programmed obsolescence. OEM Ebikes have a shelf life, either when they get too expensive to repair or when newer, shinier models catch our attention.

I rode my analog bike, an Apollo Summit a bog strandard hybrid, for 26 years. Nothing serious, just daily commuting of a few kays on and off over the years. Original everything, including chain and cassette. That'll never happen with an ebike. The technology, reliability and chemical lifespan measures in years, not decades.

I've made peace with this. Although I'm going to be very cranky if I get less than 5 years from my current Ebike.

You may get more from a DIY job. But then factor in the opportunity cost of the hours invested..

 

[Stuart B]

I have not read all of every post in this thread. But, many posts seem like the writer would enjoy knowing that part of Watt Wagons core philosophy for their bikes is to always be able to upgrade your bike with any newer and better components that come out. All the way to ordering a new frame to go with your already high end components if that is called for.

I support the company (WW) and the initiative, particularly to minimize the garbage we create for ourselves, though I think it would be costly upgrade if you are a distance away. In the U.S. shipping is still reasonable. Shipping from Canada to the US for upgrades and shipping it back gets costly and complicated. I do wish they had a location on each side of the border.

 

[Scona]

I agree with this in general. But how is it that bicycles are so reliable, and similarly motorcycles are as well? I would rank the ebike between the two for mechanical and electronic complexity and yet nowhere near either for reliability or maintainability. I am reminded of the evolution of the home computer in its infancy, and how manufacturers were eliminated along the way, leaving owners holding the bag. Until the industry reaches some kind of stability I am not considering a large investment in any of the present offerings. My present ebike is a hub drive bafang powered folding unit with parts easily available, a minor expenditure. Which will probably be totally worn out in several years, and then, who knows?

 

[Asher]

"Companies and ebike models that support or would facilitate upgrades - particularly with batteries or motors"
or
"Companies and smartphone models that support or would facilitate upgrades - particularly with batteries or processors".
Name one.

A pretty silly comparison given that decent smartphones can be had for a few hundred dollars and weigh a hundred grams.

Just my two cents worth: The bigger more dominant the company .... the faster they will use 'innovation' to make you want to buy the latest and greatest and the sooner they will make parts non backwards compatible.

Precisely. The death of e-bikes has little to do with technology or the advance thereof. It has everything to do with corporate decisions to make bikes more profitable, by making you dependent on them for ongoing repairs, and depriving you of the ability to keep your bike running affordably or at all. Proprietary interfaces are always the strongest and most common stratagem.

The bigger problem is this creates profits, especially through marked up batteries, that monopolistic companies like Bosch can use to pay off the other players in the system, i.e. the brands and the dealers. Rivals like Shimano and Yamaha have apparently decided they'd rather get a cut of the oligopoly pie rather than destroy it. Also because once an open, less profitable standard becomes common, it can be very difficult to dislodge. Manual bikes have lots of standards, but outright proprietary ones are far from the norm, let alone for $1,000 replacement items like motors and batteries.

Personally, I think lots of what is touted as 'innovation' in the ebike sector is either hyperbole for marketing purposes, or corrections to previously defective designs.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A pretty silly comparison given that decent smartphones can be had for a few hundred dollars and weigh a hundred grams.

Not that silly as you think. We live in postmodern times where products you're buying are disposable. Earlier smartphones had removable batteries, and current ones are not. In five years from now, your brand new e-bike of the present will be obsolete. And it is not that poor people buy e-bikes. The buyers will still be found. You'll mark my words.

Once, products were repairable. Now these are disposable.

 

[Asher]

Not that silly as you think. We live in postmodern times where products you're buying are disposable. Earlier smartphones had removable batteries, and current ones are not. In five years from now, your brand new e-bike of the present will be obsolete. And it is not that poor people buy e-bikes. The buyers will still be found. You'll mark my words.

Once, products were repairable. Now these are disposable.

Someone rips you off, and you just say 'wow that's how life is these days.'

A working ebike is about as prone to obsolescence as a hammer. All that matters is that it works.

Five years isn't even enough time for major battery improvements (i.e. solid state, which won't come for another 8-10 years).

And even those smartphone batteries can be replaced for $50-100. Small price compared to a new unit. People are holding their phones longer and longer, 3+ years, as differences between models become marginal. I held my last one for 3.5 years, and will hold my current one for at least 5.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Someone rips you off, and you just say 'wow that's how life is these days.'

You can cry as long as you want.

A working ebike is about as prone to obsolescence as a hammer. All that matters is that it works.

Five years isn't even enough time for major battery improvements (i.e. solid state, which won't come for another 8-10 years).

It is enough to have not been able to buy a replacement (OEM) battery, or a motor. In one year (2017-2018) Specialized changed the design of the Vado fork. Previously, it was using a non-standard thru-axle, not made anymore. Good Robert Axle Project still makes such axles.

 

[Merle Nelson]

I support the company (WW) and the initiative, particularly to minimize the garbage we create for ourselves, though I think it would be costly upgrade if you are a distance away. In the U.S. shipping is still reasonable. Shipping from Canada to the US for upgrades and shipping it back gets costly and complicated. I do wish they had a location on each side of the border.

Okay, maybe they will one day. In the meantime I think the motor is the only thing you would need to ship back to them if you wanted a new controller or more watts available. Besides that your local bike shop should be able to make any upgrades you might desire.

 

[Stuart B]

Okay, maybe they will one day. In the meantime I think the motor is the only thing you would need to ship back to them if you wanted a new controller or more watts available. Besides that your local bike shop should be able to make any upgrades you might desire.

Possibly, and that is likely what I would do. So, will it be easier to upgrade a watt wagon ebike than say a specialized ebike. I don’t know the answer to that. Primarily motor and battery being the key components that I would upgrade.

 

[Asher]

It is enough to have not been able to buy a replacement (OEM) battery, or a motor. In one year (2017-2018) Specialized changed the design of the Vado fork. Previously, it was using a non-standard thru-axle, not made anymore.

Confirming my point about how often, 'Innovation!' = fixing defective design

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Confirming my point about how often, 'Innovation!' = fixing defective design

I don't know in what sense the design was "defective". Replacing the custom rigid fork with a Suntour suspension one just required making the change. And the sus fork must have been enforced by the marketing (not engineering) department.

 

[Asher]

I don't know in what sense the design was "defective". Replacing the custom rigid fork with a Suntour suspension one just required making the change. And the sus fork must have been enforced by the marketing (not engineering) department.

Defective is referring to the use of a nonstandard thru axle.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Defective is referring to the use of a nonstandard thru axle.

If Specialized wanted to go the Trek way (Allant+ 8/8s, Allant+ 9.9s) and still use a rigid fork, the design change wouldn't be necessary, and the axle would still be produced. It is a feature, not fault.