JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
Few more thousand years, those hills will be pushed into the sea. 
Cargo bike comparison for steep street. RadWagon vs Flyer or ???
- Thread starter pamiro
- Start date
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
The issue is defining the word "hill" in a manner that everyone understands. Clearly it can mean different things to different people. You want to share a comment saying a bike will make it without issue, go for it! I have a problem though, encouraging somebody to spend a couple thousand dollars on a bike only to find that it will NOT make the hill they are talking about!I'm going to skip over the purse fight between mid and hub drive and look at this differently.
The OP doesn't state where they're located. Hills are different on the west coast, the mid-west and the east coast. What they consider steep might not actually be steep in comparison to the hills out west. Some of you make it sound as though a hub drive bike can't climb any hill without over heating and spewing molten rock as it melts down.
I'll give some personal experience to the OP. I looked at the Radio Flyer because I wanted a cargo bike. I didn't like the idea of the 500W motor and that it seemed as though parts weren't going to be readily available. For example, I wanted to know about replacement battery packs. You can't buy them directly from their site. I wrote an inquired about it. After 3 days I finally got an answer. If I wanted a battery, I would have to send them my serial number to ensure they sent the right pack. That swayed me away from them because that means that they're getting batteries from various sources and at some point, possibly in the very near future, a battery might not be available. There's just no way to tell.
I then started looking at Radpower bikes. Their website lists a lot of accessories being available, and while they're using FedExGround as their shipping partner their parts eventually do arrive. I bought a RadRunner 2, which arrived within a couple of days. Assembly easy enough, and eventually all the accessories I bought arrived.
I've been very happy with it. I have had no problem climbing the hills in and around Central PA. One hill that I rode was up in Dauphin county, approximately 3 miles long. I started off around the midway point, rode to the bottom, turned around and rode up to the top. I has PAS set to 5 and maintained between 15 and 20mph the entire ride. This was in 89F heat, and I barely broke a sweat. The motor did not overheat, it never faltered it was a smooth ride the entire time. I did not have my GPS on the bike yet, so I do not have elevation values, but here's the bottom: https://www.google.com/maps/place/40°42'49.7"N+76°48'11.9"W/@40.713818,-76.8054827,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x89cf47bb55bac255:0x753ab489e47c88b8!2sAmish+School+Rd,+Jackson+Township,+PA+17830!3b1!8m2!3d40.7148752!4d-76.8050316!3m5!1s0x0:0xaf2e2bb7bed51e4c!7e2!8m2!3d40.713814!4d-76.8032935
Here's the top where I turned around and returned to the farm:
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.www.google.com
This is the farm where I started and went down hill from there: https://www.google.com/maps/place/H...2e5373c7397061!8m2!3d40.7070986!4d-76.8268423
If you're out in the pacific northwest, maybe you need a better bike that climbs hills, but consider your the terrain in your area. That hill you have may not be nearly as steep as you think it is.
Then, there's the issue (additional complication) regarding the weight you are talking about getting to the top of the hill. My wife weighs less than half of what I do, and rides a 500 watt bike with an aftermarket controller able to supply MUCH more power than the factory controller, and can climb some pretty steep hills as well as my bikes that are 2-4 times as powerful.
So my point is, rather than even trying to recommend anything in particular, when somebody mentions "hills" I find it's much more useful to point out the issue, the options, and let them make up their own mind. Clearly a mid drive is going to climb about anything, but that needs to be balanced with the fact hub drives are so easy/simple to ride.
Not that sharing your experience isn't helpful, just understand its NOT as easy as you make it sound.....
PedalUma
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Petaluma, CA
It has made for a great fishing spot called Tamales Bay. Where it meets the sea great whites munch on plump seals. Including elephant seals. It is like a mini-Cape CodFew more thousand years, those hills will be pushed into the sea.
JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
I used to live in Vallejo back in the early 70's. They served us boiled spinach as a snack in kindergarten. I'm happy I'm not there anymore.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Has to be the silliest post in recent memory. A 15% grade is 15% regardless of left or right coast. Same here in the Midwest. Sure a DD hub can be a climber but not without some customization. Statoraide, cooling fins for two.
JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
Please point to where the OP said it's a 15% grade. They said "steep" which is a rather subjective term. Their perception of a steep hill in the midwest is very different of a steep hill out west, like I said in that post. What the people out here on the east coast would consider steep, might just be rolling hills for the guys on the west coast. No definition of "steep" was given in the OP. The OP also never mentioned the length of the hill they have to climb, nor did anyone bother to ask.
Has to be the silliest post in recent memory. A 15% grade is 15% regardless of left or right coast. Same here in the Midwest. Sure a DD hub can be a climber but not without some customization. Statoraide, cooling fins for two.
No one bothered to ask what the OP meant by steep, just went off on the apparent constant battle of middrive vs hub motor tirade. It's funny, in the 30 years I've been frequenting forums, every single one has that one polarizing topic. Apparently here it's middrive vs hub, everyone has their entrenched positions which they defend religiously without actually making any headway.
There's apparently thousands upon thousands of hubdrive bikes out there that cannot climb a hill according to some. Not everyone is climbing 15% grades, nor do they want to, most are climbing simple hills, which hubdrives are very capable of climbing.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Comments like this do nothing to further the very cause you are rallying against. It SHOULD be clear to anyone with any common sense, and maybe a little riding experience, that there are hills that will totally stall your geared hub bike -especially- if you were speaking of a cargo bike with a load on it (like a couple of kids). Should be just as clear there are going to be hills it can make. You've made that point, but I've seen you add nothing of value beyond that - or did I miss something?
JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
Sure there are hills that can do that. But not all of them, and you've made no effort to determine if the hills in the area of the OP will do that or not. I ride mine, with a load several times a week, and have no problem navigating hills in my area. In the entire state of PA, the steepest grade that I've seen is 12.5%, and those roads are ones that you wouldn't be riding a bike upon.
You make it sound as though no hubbike is capable of riding up any hill with any type of load, and that simply isn't true. Of course, you feel the need to denigrate me by implying that I have no common sense, nor riding experience, which again, simply is not true. I acknowledge that middrive bikes are more capable of riding up steep hills, but not everyone has those steep hills to navigate. No one bothered to ask the OP what the hill is like, except the assumption was made that the hill it too step for a hub drive, and it appears now that they've been scared off and haven't returned to this thread. Instead, they've been inquiring about the same types of bikes in other threads. You haven't educated them, you've scared them.
No qualifying questions were asked about their situation. What they perceive as a "steep" hill might not actually be steep, I doubt very much it's a 15% grade, but no one bothered to ask. If the OP lives in the midwest, the chances of encountering a long 10% or more grade are pretty slim, same as they get further east, at least until they get to the "mountains" on this side of the Mississippi. Out here, we have lots of low rolling hills that are easily handled, but could be perceived as being steep by someone without experience. Your view of "steep" is probably very different than someone that's just getting into riding's view of steep.
You are doing a disservice to the OP, but not finding out what kind of terrain they're riding on other than just going by the "steep" statement they made and then recommending the best bike they can get within their price range. If that's a middrive, great, but if it's a hubdrive, they shouldn't be dissuaded from from buying one because you like Middrives.
Thousands upon thousands of people have hubdrives that ride them every day and are happy with them. Don't make the assumption that everyone is riding in the mountains. The world is a big place, and not everyone is going to encounter long 15% grades.
My overall point is that no one bothered to ask the OP any follow up questions to determine what's actually best for their situation. But yeah, I have no experience in hauling stuff on a cargo bike with a hubdrive.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
That my friend, is a complete load of crap and proof you have absolutely no comprehension regarding what you read.
Please go back and re-read post #4, then posts #16, #25, and finally #42.
If you can't figure that I'm a huge fan of geared hubs from the tone of those notes, and actually have experience riding more than one bike and type power (not a one bike "expert"), then you have a particularly thick skull, and you should go back through them AGAIN.
MY overall point is not to suggest a particular bike, but to explain the differences (using actual real world experience with each), what you can really expect from each. I don't care how big that hill is. I'm trying to expose the OP to real world information he can use to make up his own mind on what might be required to climb it....
JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
What a friendly forum, where you feel the need to toss around insults. Second time, very friendly.
What kind of hill is the OP trying to climb? Did you ask? Difficult to actually make a recommendation without knowing the terrain isn't it? Have a good day.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Minutia. Please a gradebisva grade regardless of geography. Here to argue? Take s deep breath.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Absolutely, but when you preach to the choir expect a response. My 9C Statoraide, cooling fin motor is a billy goat, but it’s not atypical. Step back take a deep breath and sort we’re mostly on the same page. But start correcting fellas with years of experience and exp3ct a response. All good. Just relax. Welcome, but not to take the piss.
Wakawaka9
New Member
- Region
- USA
So… anyone hear of the m-81 Addmotor cargo bike? It’s on sale right now for $1750 and has a rear hub 750w motor, 20” wheels, and front shocks. Does it seem to be an adequate budget cargo bike?
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
not much motor for a 3 wheel bike but just stay way from hillsSo… anyone hear of the m-81 Addmotor cargo bike? It’s on sale right now for $1750 and has a rear hub 750w motor, 20” wheels, and front shocks. Does it seem to be an adequate budget cargo bike?
JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
I'd hate to correct you, but that's a 2 wheel bike.not much motor for a 3 wheel bike but just stay way from hills
JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
I like it. I'd just be wary of a long frame with kids on the back. If you're going to ride kids try to make them understand that they can't be moving around a whole lot back there. I used to ride my kids on the back of my Trek, and when they first got into the seat they'd have a tendency to kick or lean at the wrong times and it would throw off the balance. I never crashed with a kid, actually, I haven't crashed since I was 12, but there were times I had to recover from their actions.So… anyone hear of the m-81 Addmotor cargo bike? It’s on sale right now for $1750 and has a rear hub 750w motor, 20” wheels, and front shocks. Does it seem to be an adequate budget cargo bike?
There's going to be a learning curve in riding with the weight and length, but I found it very easy to get used to. It doesn't show what kind of stand it comes with. I found that it was tough to load heavier kids on a bike with a leaning stand. You almost need a second person to hold the bike while you get them loaded. If it has a motorcycle type stand as an option, I'd get it so the bike it upright, it'll be easier to load.
JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
Time for bed, you're drunk.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Stoned.Time for bed, you're drunk.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
oops for some reason I saw a trike.I'd hate to correct you, but that's a 2 wheel bike.
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