Can we change the culture?

Y

YoGe

Active Member
What is it about eBiking that enrages some of the less rational, less mature cyclists? I've been eCycling for about a year now and this past Sunday I received my first negative reaction but boy was it a doozy. It's all well and good to talk about just passively cycling past and ignoring comments, but this guy chased me down (sure, with my max assist of 20mph combined with 50lbs of bicycle, many cyclists can outride me on a moderate upgrade) ran me off the shoulder and threatened me with violence. If not for the fact that I had video rolling and I kept telling the guy that he was being video'ed, he might very well have followed through.

How do we get cyclists to understand that we're not competing, we're not comparing, and no - we're not uploading our stats onto the leaderboards. (I'm not and I would hope no eCyclist is!) We're just doing our thing which is similar but different than conventional cycling and why can't we just all get along? After all, I don't know of any cyclist who flies into a rage simply because a motorcyclist passes them by.

Threatened.jpg


Is there some way we can change this culture for the better?
 
Seems like one of the more aggressive confrontations I've heard of. If you didn't get physically hurt, count that as a win in the fictitious competition.

You were prepared. One of our Tuesday night group riders got a cheater comment at a break stop, mild in comparison. He took the opportunity to engage in a calm conversation to inform the guy and his wife. Turned out they had some non cycling common ground and they left on good terms, with a greater understanding of ebikes. Win, win. Cooler heads always prevail.
 
LOL. I have a European spec 25 kph limit ebike. Anyone who accuses me of cheating that seriously can exchange bikes with me and we can race 2 km on a flat surface. I'm not as fit as I used to be but 30 kph on flat terrain is perfectly leisurely.
 
You're on the mark with "culture"... I worry it may also be coming from a larger shift in our general culture... it feels like society is becoming inured to hearing and seeing others treated this way, gradually eroding the mechanisms that should control civil behavior in public, until eventually, this kind of out-of-the-blue outburst seems normal and reasonable...

Dunno what it is about some pedal-cyclists that seem to see a deep, personal affront and offense in all ebikes. Maybe it is insecurities around speed and "climbing ease" and *their own* perceptions of an implied performance competition -- making hills look too easy on an ebike... Maybe they see a threat to their self-image; "that overweight 50-year-old sitting in an upright position just zipped passed me on a serious hill, while I'm almost standing on the pedals in my lowest gear to crawl up the same hill." Perhaps self-interpreting the passing ebiker as someone casting a superiority complex down on them... I have no idea. Sadly all of those ideas are made-up perceptions on the spot, not reality.

I'd ideally want to always chalk it up to a misinformed cyclist who has taken their misinformation as gospel... but I do tend to think the kind of *person* (not limited to cyclists at all!) who can launch into an attack on a total stranger, over something as mundane as riding an ebike, has other personality deficiencies going on. Rising voices, shouting insults -- all too easily that can spill into violence or physical confrontation... Glad yours did not. It is hard to stay calm, stay neutral-toned, and attempt to have a rational discussion with someone who starts the surprise exchange on such an irrational footing... Yet that is likely the only thing that has a chance of working towards changing that individual's perception/misinformation. (Though nobody in that heated-up position of attack is in any receptive kind of mood to hear what we might actually say about ebikes!)
 
Yossi Geretz said:
What is it about eBiking that enrages some of the less rational, less mature cyclists? I've been eCycling for about a year now and this past Sunday I received my first negative reaction but boy was it a doozy. It's all well and good to talk about just passively cycling past and ignoring comments, but this guy chased me down (sure, with my max assist of 20mph combined with 50lbs of bicycle, many cyclists can outride me on a moderate upgrade) ran me off the shoulder and threatened me with violence. If not for the fact that I had video rolling and I kept telling the guy that he was being video'ed, he might very well have followed through.

How do we get cyclists to understand that we're not competing, we're not comparing, and no - we're not uploading our stats onto the leaderboards. (I'm not and I would hope no eCyclist is!) We're just doing our thing which is similar but different than conventional cycling and why can't we just all get along? After all, I don't know of any cyclist who flies into a rage simply because a motorcyclist passes them by.

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Is there some way we can change this culture for the better?
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That is horrible.. Never heard any ebiker being threatened for just biking on what looks like the shoulder of a little road.

You did the right thing.. I wouldn't try to fix bigots and bullies, as they are probably on steroids.

Be the kind and polite person you are, and they will see the person, not the bike.


Aside: I started running on the roads in 1971, before it became a popular sport. I was routinely run off the roads by cars, homeowners used to release their dogs to chase me down, and a lot of insults. .As a teenager I retaliated in ways I'd rather not discuss, but it did allow me to survive what I thought were rude attacks. You can attck the bully, which is what I did, but as adults we must be the better person.
 
Yet another reason to add an unlocker to your bike to uncork its top speed to 28+ !! I am trying to put off doing this, and so far I am fine with 20. But when asked me why I needed a higher top speed, I shall refer to this thread and say 'To outrun that crazy biker who was yelling at me to slow down so he could accost me, threaten me and tell me what a punk I was for using a battery on my bike'. I'd just make sure I could run him ragged til he gave up :p

I'm really curious what his line of attack was towards you. I fail to comprehend why someone would accost a fellow rider simply because he had something different on his bike. Do they think you need a 'physically disabled' tag on your ebike before they will allow you to pass ?? I'm going to yell at every guy using a rear rack and panniers because that's cheating - I don't need them on MY bike to ride on this trail !!

Road rage is so prevalent these days, it's almost a given that we will now see this happening on a trail as well.
 
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Just about a year back I had a bad encounter with a curmudgeon roadie who did not like an ebike "cheater" within his vicinity... on a public road. After that, I've kept Sabre pepper spray within reach in case I have to defend against a similar psycho who goes off the rails.

The roadie scene here is typically populated by hardcore cyclists who have consumed large amounts of the marketing Kool Aid. To be accepted into the club, one needs to spend substantial sums of money on a flyweight bike and required accessory widgets, and all the correct and proper riding togs. I understand the weight thing because pedaling up hills around here can be torture. So, along comes me in blue jeans and work boots [the roadie name for this type of rider is a "Fred"], and I pass them on a climb. I'm not sending a message, just casually riding to my destination. From my experiences with the 'club', being passed by someone within their ranks is a challenge. To get passed by an assisted bike is taken as an insult. It's about their perception of correctness and reality. Change is difficult and threatening for some people.
 
There is no telling what is going on with this guy!?! He may have just had an Ebiker ride by and cut him off or maybe he is on meth. There is an entire spectrum of variables that a typical person has no way of knowing what is going on in that situation. This incident I would write off as an individual unable to cope. Now the culture is a different thing. I am new at this and I have decided that my canned reply is going to be something along the lines of "Hey, friend we are on the same side." or "Just trying to make my carbon footprint smaller."

I wonder where the schism is with cyclist? Are motorcycles cheating? Is carbon fiber cheating? Is a 21 speed cheating? Is walking or jogging some higher ideal of transportation that we should all be aspiring to? Maybe it's all about having to share the bike lane?

I am just very happy to know that at least I have an option for my commute to work besides a car! I am saving on gas, mileage, and a gym membership. At least that's the plan for now =D
 
I dont know if I can hold my composure in such an encounter....
Didnt get such negativity yet, maybe its different here in germany, but you can bet that this guy would have gotten his share if it would have been me.

I mean, what the heck is his problem?
Why does he care what others do?

Just let everbody do their own thing.
I´d just ask him why he cares so much about what strangers do, if hes bored?
 
I've always admired how Harley Davidson riders have their own hand greeting when passing each other, and I always nod or lift my hand off the grip as a non-verbal gesture of "hello" or "howzit" as we say in Hawaii when passing another cyclist. Many daily commuters that I pass every day have grown accustomed to me doing that and return the gesture. The hardcore spandex billboard riders completely ignore me. I don't even have an ebike yet, but it's obviously still not a serious enough bike to be "accepted" and my attire is all wrong. I will confess I do wear Pearl Izumi bib shorts but only because they hold my gut in really well. They're also extremely comfortable and dry fast for the ride home. Throw a Hanes brand Cool-Dri shirt over that along with my Five Ten Freerider Canvas MTB shoes and I'm good to go. :cool:
 
I've never had a verbal tirade from a cyclist. The e-motor never stayed in power over 13 miles so no pedaler has had a chance to complain about my improbable speed.
Pedaling I've had beer bottles, cups of drink, pop bottles, food trash, and a steel bar thrown at me from cars and trucks. I've had motor vehicle do a brush pass, and I've had a car turn around, return and drive down my side of the road with the door open, forcing me into the ditch. I've been bitten by a half dozen dogs and had dog owners threaten me with arrest because I prepared to defend myself from a dog half my size. Last year I had to swing a 6' cable with a lock at the end to discourage a 100 lb 42" tall dog. I've been knocked off the bike by a dog, that made my front tire skid when I was carrying 50 lb supplies.
So you just got some words? My response would be "I'm glad for you that were born a European: your grandfather would have just shot me." (I'm part native Am. See the recent china exclusion act Am Experience program, also history of the gold rush in California. Native Am made poor slaves and mostly just "disappeared").
BTW I wear polyester Dickies long pants & sleeves: less blood when the dog bites or I fly over the handlebars.( about once a year lately). Club bikers won't even pretend to see me or wave. Only reason you can tell I'm not homeless, I'm not wearing black, I'm wearing a yellow reflective vest. Before I ordered the vest, I had people stop from cars and motorscooters and offer me money or food - as if I were homeless. Actually I own two homes, clear title.
 
That's a pretty scary encounter and makes a couple of the incidents I've had look more tame.

I don't really get the animosity from roadies to an e-biker. It seems all bicyclists roadie, e or otherwise have similar relationships to automobiles. I bet the roadies get together and lament how they are treated by drivers. That roadie that assaulted the OP could easily have the same thing happen to him by an automobile driver. Roadies hate e-bikers, mtbers hate e-mtbers, drivers hate us all. drivers hate each other. Lotsa hate out there. Almost makes me want to stay home and lock the doors.
 
If someone confronts you like that again, just tell them you are recovering from some medical thing and this is your "rehab." They can't very well get angry at someone who, say, has a heart condition, or had knee or hip surgery. You could also tell them you're trying to ditch your car and seeing if you can use an ebike to replace your car and what kind of speed and mileage you might be able to get if you did so.

I've not been chased or anything but I have disclosed a time or two I have a high heart rate (which is true) and my ebike allows me to get sustained exercise, which I wasn't able to do on my regular hybrid bike (also true). I also usually add that *whatever* allows someone to get their butt on a bicycle, regardless of what kind of bicycle, should be celebrated and encouraged because it's healthy and doesn't pollute. I've found that most everyone agrees with the getting butt on a bicycle thing.
 
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