Bike Insurance? ebikes not covered under homeowners/renters, & >750W not covered by bike insurance

[dgroebl]

I've recently purchased a 1500W Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS and I want to protect my investment with some insurance coverage.

Just curious what options people have found to ensure their larger ebikes?

I called my insurance company and they told me that they won't cover an ebike because it has a motor. I then looked into bike insurance: Velosurance, Markel Insurance, and Spoke, each of them have a strict 750W motor limit. Does anyone know of an insurance company that will cover a larger ebike?

Thanks!

 

[J.R.]

I've recently purchased a 1500W Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS and I want to protect my investment with some insurance coverage.

Just curious what options people have found to ensure their larger ebikes?

I called my insurance company and they told me that they won't cover an ebike because it has a motor. I then looked into bike insurance: Velosurance, Markel Insurance, and Spoke, each of them have a strict 750W motor limit. Does anyone know of an insurance company that will cover a larger ebike?

Thanks!

1500 watts, 2 horsepower, puts it in moped class. Maybe an insurance company would cover it as a moped. The problem, of course, it doesn't meet D.O.T. specs for a legal moped, but insurance may still cover the bike as one. Couldn't hurt to ask.

 

[John from Connecticut]

I've recently purchased a 1500W Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS and I want to protect my investment with some insurance coverage.

Just curious what options people have found to ensure their larger ebikes?

I called my insurance company and they told me that they won't cover an ebike because it has a motor. I then looked into bike insurance: Velosurance, Markel Insurance, and Spoke, each of them have a strict 750W motor limit. Does anyone know of an insurance company that will cover a larger ebike?

Thanks!

As J. R. mentioned 1500W Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS is in the moped class. Their website lists 35mph top speed. Where will ride it? The bike clearly
falls into the category of a 'motorized vehicle' from a restricted trail use.

 

[Ken M]

I've recently purchased a 1500W Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS and I want to protect my investment with some insurance coverage.

Just curious what options people have found to ensure their larger ebikes?

I called my insurance company and they told me that they won't cover an ebike because it has a motor. I then looked into bike insurance: Velosurance, Markel Insurance, and Spoke, each of them have a strict 750W motor limit. Does anyone know of an insurance company that will cover a larger ebike?

Thanks!

Buy a sticker that says 750W and that becomes your motor "rating." The people that work at insurance companies are not exactly your best technical thinkers so they don't know the difference between motor rating and actual wattage being utilized by the drive system. In fact the government law makers that wrote the federal ebike regulations didn't understand this either. If you want to educate yourself on this go to Grin Technologies website and read some of the technical information on rating a motor and what is actual drive system power.

The good news is that the regulations are so poorly written it's hard to imagine they will really have any legal standing if/when court cases arise. Lawyers just love litigation, to make money and to hear themselves talk.

If you really want to be a responsible ebike rider buy a 500W sticker.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Buy a sticker that says 750W and that becomes your motor "rating." The people that work at insurance companies are not exactly your best technical thinkers so they don't know the difference between motor rating and actual wattage being utilized by the drive system. In fact the government law makers that wrote the federal ebike regulations didn't understand this either. If you want to educate yourself on this go to Grin Technologies website and read some of the technical information on rating a motor and what is actual drive system power.

The good news is that the regulations are so poorly written it's hard to imagine they will really have any legal standing if/when court cases arise. Lawyers just love litigation, to make money and to hear themselves talk.

If you really want to be a responsible ebike rider buy a 500W sticker.

The technical term for what you are describing is "fraud".

 

[rich c]

Plus a simple search by an insurance adjuster reveals the true nature of the moped.

 

[Ken M]

The technical term for what you are describing is "fraud".

Fraud? Where is there a standard for rating a motor (the regulations do not specify "drive system wattage limits" but some assume that but even that is not being followed)? How many of the motor manufacturers are rating a motor to be compliant while having peak wattage well above the "motor rating." I'm an engineer so I'm well aware that depending on the test conditions a motor could run at say 500W continuous of overheat at 500W in a short period of time - just test the motor in high ambient temperature.

Essentially I could set up a test to be consistent with the sticker. Listen I would prefer clearer regulations but I'd be concerned they are going to set them to low or such that maybe mid drives have a technical advantage over hub drives (the regulations should not favor a technology such that just gearing a low wattage motor is best because that decreases reliability).

Given how our government and lawyers behave these days, it's hard to take anything seriously which is why I'm suggesting just put a sticker on the bike that indicates it's compliant. I think you can find these stickers on ebay already and I'm not the one creating them.

I believe ebikes do have the potential to be fantastic human scale transportation / urban mobility products but if we draw a line in the sand at too low of power they will not achieve that potential. If we allow DMV and insurance companies to get their way and start requiring ebikes to be registered and insured their cost benefits are decreased substantially because they can't entire replace a car for most people.

 

[Ken M]

Plus a simple search by an insurance adjuster reveals the true nature of the moped.

I called a few insurance companies last year about insuring an ebike and they all wanted to keep it simple for them and insure it as if it was a motorcycle. I understand that most of us are concerned most about liability if we just happen to hurt someone. I would think that any reasonable insurance company would realize that if I have auto insurance and I'm ridding my bike that day that I'm actually lowering their risk of a substantial liability claim so they should just lump the ebike into the car policy. Oh, but while that makes sense it not what they bean counters will want to do.

 

[joshuaho96]

Honestly in practice the Bafang Ultra is actually a 1000W nominal motor, when you spin it at speeds you actually want to run at for motor efficiency the power output drops down towards nominal. 1500W is a peak.

If you limit current to 25A instead of 30A you will in practice have a 750W nominal motor with a peak of 1200-1300W depending on battery voltage.

 

[Ken M]

Honestly in practice the Bafang Ultra is actually a 1000W nominal motor, when you spin it at speeds you actually want to run at for motor efficiency the power output drops down towards nominal. 1500W is a peak.

If you limit current to 25A instead of 30A you will in practice have a 750W nominal motor with a peak of 1200-1300W depending on battery voltage.

The good news for smart ebikers here in the US is that the "motor rating" of the federal regulations allows for high "peak power" and reality no speed limit so long as the rider is pedaling (the speed is specified as throttle only limit). Sadly very few people actually take the time to read the federal regulation and the stipulation that the states actually can't set tighter controls (they can set usage restrictions and looser performance specifications but I don't believe they can set tighter specifications on an ebike that is considered a consumer product regulated by the CPSC.

 

[dgroebl]

One of the main points of insurance for me is for comprehensive coverage. I'll try my best to keep it locked up, but there are limits to what's practical. This is the Bay Area so bicycle theaves abound. You'll never stop someone who is highly motivated or every crackhead with a bolt cutter. If the bike is stolen then I definitely want to be able to claim that I bought a badass 1000/1500W Ultra bike and not some puny 500W jobbie.

That being said I will call my insurance company again and discuss the possibility of moped or light motorcycle insurance. I let you know what I find out.

 

[Dewey]

The good news for smart ebikers here in the US is that the "motor rating" of the federal regulations allows for high "peak power" and reality no speed limit so long as the rider is pedaling (the speed is specified as throttle only limit). Sadly very few people actually take the time to read the federal regulation and the stipulation that the states actually can't set tighter controls (they can set usage restrictions and looser performance specifications but I don't believe they can set tighter specifications on an ebike that is considered a consumer product regulated by the CPSC.

No the states can and do regulate, here in Virginia an electric power assisted bicycle is defined as max 1,000w and 25mph, that might change in future years if the state adopts the People for Bikes 3-class system as neighboring Maryland has just done. Anything above that is a moped or motorcycle requiring a VIN# to be registered with the DMV. Because most ebikes don’t meet DoT standards so are not issued a VIN# anything that exceeds these power/speed maximums cannot be insured. Basically illegal to ride on the roads, trails, sidewalks, or anything bar private land.

 

[harryS]

If you have an agent and do a lot of business (house, car, umbrella) with him or her, you can probably get a rider policy on your bike to cover its loss. Otherwsie, I don't think an agent wants to bother with a dinky little rider policy if you walk in off the street.

What most people consider as vehicle insurance might be possible for a bike, but if you're looking to protect your assets, maybe an umbrella policy is the best approach.

 

[joshuaho96]

One of the main points of insurance for me is for comprehensive coverage. I'll try my best to keep it locked up, but there are limits to what's practical. This is the Bay Area so bicycle theaves abound. You'll never stop someone who is highly motivated or every crackhead with a bolt cutter. If the bike is stolen then I definitely want to be able to claim that I bought a badass 1000/1500W Ultra bike and not some puny 500W jobbie.

That being said I will call my insurance company again and discuss the possibility of moped or light motorcycle insurance. I let you know what I find out.

I'm reasonably confident the bike will not have a VIN. So I'm not sure how you plan to register as a moped. If you want to register a moped you should get something like the Sur Ron which has enough power and the looks to make police interested in what you're doing. If you want to be able to ride on bike trails without the cops showing up you need to be relatively stealthy, something like a moped license plate will absolutely be a clear sign that you do not belong on MUPs. So either live with the reality that you can't insure a high power ebike or get a motorcycle and have something that actually justifies the trouble of getting insurance and plates.

I would not worry about theft even in the Bay Area unless you live in SF/Berkeley/Oakland. The key to not getting your bike stolen is to reduce the exposure time which means keep your bike indoors with secured storage at work and at home. If you have a garage, keep your bike in your garage and never leave it open unless someone is standing guard. After that you should consider getting a quality bike lock and chain to secure the frame and both wheels when you need to stop at a shop or something.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Fraud? Where is there a standard for rating a motor (the regulations do not specify "drive system wattage limits" but some assume that but even that is not being followed)? How many of the motor manufacturers are rating a motor to be compliant while having peak wattage well above the "motor rating." I'm an engineer so I'm well aware that depending on the test conditions a motor could run at say 500W continuous of overheat at 500W in a short period of time - just test the motor in high ambient temperature.

Essentially I could set up a test to be consistent with the sticker. Listen I would prefer clearer regulations but I'd be concerned they are going to set them to low or such that maybe mid drives have a technical advantage over hub drives (the regulations should not favor a technology such that just gearing a low wattage motor is best because that decreases reliability).

Given how our government and lawyers behave these days, it's hard to take anything seriously which is why I'm suggesting just put a sticker on the bike that indicates it's compliant. I think you can find these stickers on ebay already and I'm not the one creating them.

I believe ebikes do have the potential to be fantastic human scale transportation / urban mobility products but if we draw a line in the sand at too low of power they will not achieve that potential. If we allow DMV and insurance companies to get their way and start requiring ebikes to be registered and insured their cost benefits are decreased substantially because they can't entire replace a car for most people.

I am not a lawyer. Obviously you aren't either.

The moment you replace the sticker the manufacturer puts on the bike with another one for the purposes of getting insurance, you are defrauding the insurance company. How arbitrary the power ratings are (and they are arbitrary) is irrelevant. The best you could hope for with your 'argument' is that you might give the judge and the prosecutor a chuckle.

 

[John from Connecticut]

One of the main points of insurance for me is for comprehensive coverage. I'll try my best to keep it locked up, but there are limits to what's practical. This is the Bay Area so bicycle theaves abound. You'll never stop someone who is highly motivated or every crackhead with a bolt cutter. If the bike is stolen then I definitely want to be able to claim that I bought a badass 1000/1500W Ultra bike and not some puny 500W jobbie.

That being said I will call my insurance company again and discuss the possibility of moped or light motorcycle insurance. I let you know what I find out.

If your primary goal is obtain actual replacement value coverage, should your e-Bike be stolen, based on my insurance situation insurance that should be
possible. I have two e-Bikes and wanted actual replacement value coverage should they be stolen. I have Geico Homeowners ( actually Condo ) Insurance.

I called Geico, explaining what I had and what insurance I wanted. They said no problem. My e-bikes were covered under my Homeowners Policy,
I asked if they required an insurance rider specifying the bikes, value etc. Nope, I asked if they wanted serial #s etc, Nope Should I file a claim
all I'd have to do is prove I purchased said bikes, the cost and what I'd added to each bike in order to be fully reimbursed.

I again called Geico two more times to confirm that I was covered and each time they told me the same thing. When riding I never ever leave my bike
out of my sight. I'm always with 'feet' of it. My concern was my bikes are locked in my locked garage when not in use.

 

[Ken M]

I am not a lawyer. Obviously you aren't either.

The moment you replace the sticker the manufacturer puts on the bike with another one for the purposes of getting insurance, you are defrauding the insurance company. How arbitrary the power ratings are (and they are arbitrary) is irrelevant. The best you could hope for with your 'argument' is that you might give the judge and the prosecutor a chuckle.

I never suggesting replacing the sticker. I was assuming that the 1000+ watt ebike purchased doesn't have a sticker so I consider this "sell certification" which doesn't seem to be illegal.

If you want to really get serious about the regulations I believe the federal limit is stated to be "less than 750W" so all the manufacturers marketing 750W bikes are non-compliant by 1 watt.

I wonder how many people have actually noticed the actual wording of the federal regulation.

 

[PDoz]

These contraptions over 750 watts are not legal anywhere public use, and are not even able to be approved by DOT. So if you have a cornfield that is your own private property then have fun riding these there only.

Actually, you'd better check the corn fields insurance policy as well - because when the ebike burns your cornfield and it spreads into town........good luck!

Insurance companies can be very fickle in what they cover, as an example - our property insurance policy covers liability for the horse but not the donkey , the house policy only covers liability for the horse if it's floated off property, not if it manages to get past the fences. ( both policies are with the same company)

From a cycling perspective, our house policy covers third party personal + property liability for incidents away from home but not personal / medical liability for whoever is riding

 

[tomjasz]

1500 watts,

Rated 1000W.


Google bicycle insurance. I’m covered w $100 deductible for $125 for bike and accessories of $3200.
No claims but then I’m not missing anything.

https://velosurance.com/

 

[J.R.]

00W

I don't want to ignore someone replying to me, but I don't know what you are replying to.