Best E-bike drivetrain?

[wardo]

Hello All,
I have two e-bikes I use for commuting and work. One is a bakfiet, the other is a long tail. Both are using Shimano 10 speed drivetrains with a KMC e-bike chain. The bakfiet is powered by a BBSHD, the long tail, a Bafang Ultra. Both are putting out 1500w or so. My issue is that I wear through chain/cassettes quickly. After 3 or 4 hundred miles, I get skipping in the smallest cassette gears where I have the least chain wrap. I don't really use the full range of gears, but do need the 11t to be functional. I am wondering if going to a 7 or 8 speed drivetrain would give me a more durable chain/cassette combo? Ideas/suggestions?

Thanks,
Wardo

 

[Alaskan]

You can get replacement small (low tooth count) cogs for some Shimano cassettes. They wear out faster as they get lots of use and have very few teeth holding the chain so they don't benefit from the broader wear distribution of the larger cogs. Ebay is a good place to look for Shimano replacement cogs, otherwise a web search should reveal other sources for the individual replacement cogs. I know they can be found for 11 and 12 speed cassettes.

A quick search on eBay for "11 tooth shimano cog sprocket" had some results including this:

11T 12T 13T 8 9 10 11 Speeds Cogs Rear Cassette Sprocket Cog Ring Shimano MTB | eBay

Quantity: 1 piece. Weight: 13-17g.

www.ebay.com

 

[Alaskan]

Also the cogs will wear far less if you replace the chain as soon as it gets to .05% wear instead if waiting till .075%. I have also found that the less expensive Shimano chains take longer to wear down, while the pricier ones focus on lighter weight but not necessarily durability.

 

[rich c]

Are you pedaling or going on throttle only? If you want to get a longer chain life, don't shift under power. If you shift under high power, the chain bangs and wears out. I ride Bosch mid drives and shift very conservatively. The Bosch has shift detection and with my conservative shifting, I get 3,000 miles on a Shimano chain. These bikes aren't motorcycles and don't have drivetrains that will take hard power shifting.

 

[tomjasz]

Hello All,
I have two e-bikes I use for commuting and work. One is a bakfiet, the other is a long tail. Both are using Shimano 10 speed drivetrains with a KMC e-bike chain. The bakfiet is powered by a BBSHD, the long tail, a Bafang Ultra. Both are putting out 1500w or so. My issue is that I wear through chain/cassettes quickly. After 3 or 4 hundred miles, I get skipping in the smallest cassette gears where I have the least chain wrap. I don't really use the full range of gears, but do need the 11t to be functional. I am wondering if going to a 7 or 8 speed drivetrain would give me a more durable chain/cassette combo? Ideas/suggestions?

Thanks,
Wardo

Do you use a shift sensor? Green pause button? Or how do you pause the motor to shift.
MUCH more powerful than Bosch and similar. Marking hard shifts pretty destructive. I like my pause button.

Bafang 8fun BBS01B BBS02B push button e-brake for stopping motor and changing gear-Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Bafang bbs push button ebrake enables you to change gear smoothly when riding the bbs kits.

www.greenbikekit.com

Are you taking off by throttle from a dead stop on the 11T cog?

 

[wardo]

Thanks for the input. To answer the various questions, I always pedal with assist. There is a shift pause/disconnect installed, and I try to make sure the drivetrain is "unloaded" when shifting. We have a LOT of big hills here, which likely doesn't help drivetrain wear!

Wardo

 

[retiredNH]

But if your smallest gears are wearing the most, then climbing hills isn't your problem. I suspect just plain weight is the real issue. I doubt there's any ready solution other than regular replacement. Your use case is at the extreme for conventional bicycle drive trains: very heavy load; high powered mid drives; hilly environment; fast riding. I suspect you not only pedal with assist, you probably use high levels too? Nothing wrong with that, you just need to recognize the cost.
From what I've read, a 7 or 8 speed may well be less durable, for a variety of reasons, so don't go that way...

 

[Surly]

Put a SRAM XD hub on it, shimano HG aren't fit for the job, most of the slippage issues are hub-cassette intefacing issues, an XD hub/cassette combo eradicates those problems.

 

[teskow]

I suggest a heavy oily wet lubricant. I use #90 weight HP gear oil. Yes it collects dust, smells bad but will prolong the wear time of the chain and drive system significantly. I put a drop on each link with an eye dropper, let it soak in overnight and wipe the outside of the chain very well before riding. It will be in the bearing surfaces for a long time.

 

[tomjasz]

Without a doubt, the OP is doing SOMETHING to load up and trash chains. I worked with several large pedicab companies over my 7 years of support calls/emails that have NONE of the problems the OP seems to be having.

 

[AHicks]

Another take maybe?
Assuming there's room, why not put a little bigger ring gear on the bike, so that 11t gear isn't used/needed as frequently? That should reduce wear on both the 11t and the chain! The power available with the BBSHD or the Ultra are both HUGE. Let's face it, 11t gears and big power are never going to get along well. There's just not enough area to absorb the loads from this kind of power.

My Ultra equipped bike is a 9 speed (w/11t small gear) and came with a 44t ring gear. I didn't use the 11t a lot, but even that amount was worth addressing I thought, because I was just using the smaller gears on the cluster most of the time. I installed a 49t ring gear, and this caused my most commonly used gears to go one gear bigger, now using the 11t only rarely. Spreading the load across a set of LARGER gears HAS to reduce the wear. If I had to do it again, knowing what I know now, I would likely go with a 52t gear.

FWIW, I'm at 1500 miles or so, and the chain is still showing itself to be in pretty good shape. This bike spends most of it's time being ridden in rolling coastal hills that can be pretty good size (my reason for going with the Ultra) but it's on pavement 90%+. I can appreciate how somebody riding off road might have a LOT more wear than I'm running, but going with a larger ring gear to avoid use of the 11t would still help I would think?

 

[CodyDog]

Without a doubt, the OP is doing SOMETHING to load up and trash chains. I worked with several large pedicab companies over my 7 years of support calls/emails that have NONE of the problems the OP seems to be having.

Good point. Too short of a lifespan and very consistent.

 

[AHicks]

Another thought. Maybe chain line too far out?

 

[TrevorB]

No bike drivetrain is design to handle 1500w continously. With 1500W should be able to get away with single speed for commuting, chains and sprockets are very cheap and long lasting.

 

[wardo]

Thanks for all the feedback. It seems there is a consensus that this shouldn't be happening. I am a long time competitive cyclist so am sensitive to shifting issues, and am not running it at 1500w continuous, more like 400w continuous, with periods of 1500w when climbing big hills. I arrived at the conclusion AHicks suggests, going to a larger chain ring so that the 11t becomes obsolete. As it is, I don't use the top three of the cassette, so I have plenty of range to play with.

Ward

 

[AHicks]

Thanks for all the feedback. It seems there is a consensus that this shouldn't be happening. I am a long time competitive cyclist so am sensitive to shifting issues, and am not running it at 1500w continuous, more like 400w continuous, with periods of 1500w when climbing big hills. I arrived at the conclusion AHicks suggests, going to a larger chain ring so that the 11t becomes obsolete. As it is, I don't use the top three of the cassette, so I have plenty of range to play with.

Ward

Yes, exactly....

 

[kmccune]

How about a Gates drive with a 3 spd IGH, apparently you do not need all those gears, seems to Me like if you use 2Hp climbing hills it would be better to get a lower gear, those gears are having a lot of force put on them close to stall( do your spokes ever loosen?) Just a thought( I like the looks of a "stacked" cassette as well, reminds me of a "Jimmy " blower equipped vehicle in stop and go traffic-How did we ever get by with a "fixie" when we were young?

 

[wardo]

How about a Gates drive with a 3 spd IGH, apparently you do not need all those gears, seems to Me like if you use 2Hp climbing hills it would be better to get a lower gear, those gears are having a lot of force put on them close to stall( do your spokes ever loosen?) Just a thought( I like the looks of a "stacked" cassette as well, reminds me of a "Jimmy " blower equipped vehicle in stop and go traffic-How did we ever get by with a "fixie" when we were young?

At this point, I don't want to swap out the rear hub, although that is certainly a possibility if I don't get it sorted. Inteestingly, the spokes are not loosening excessively, although one might expect that they would.
Ward

 

[kmccune]

At this point, I don't want to swap out the rear hub, although that is certainly a possibility if I don't get it sorted. Inteestingly, the spokes are not loosening excessively, although one might expect that they would.
Ward

Strangely enough, I just acquired a bike with cast wheels and I actually like it as for rolling resistance, this new bike with 2.1" tires will hit the bottom of a steep hill I ride over about 10 mph faster indicated, the last fat tire bike I bought was pure junk.I think I am going to try to trade it or sell cheap.If I wear the tires out on the bike with 2.1" tires I will try it with 2.35 schwalbies or the like. I may give it one more chance off road.
On the original subject it seems some of the real torquey mid drives can wreck havoc on the spokes if one is not careful about making sure they are tight and correctly tensioned.

 

[MartsEbike]

I had the same issue on my bike. I had only done around 250 miles when I noticed the skipping start - and it got progressively worse from there on in. To the point it was unusable - and embarrassing, it's noisey!

I changed the front chainring with a larger Wolftooth 46T Chainring (from 40T to 46T), I replaced like for like using the same XT M8000 cassette, but changed from a KMC chain to a Connex 11SE, and so far it's been great. I've put thousands of miles on it.

Also made sure the drive chain was aligned as best as possible, because from factory it wasn't great. I also think increasing the chain tension made a big difference, so the whole setup is a little tighter. You can adjust the derailleur a bit to increase tension, and also remove a link to two until you have the smallest chain possible that will still let you use all gears.

Now it hardly ever have skips - to the point I no longer fear them, and I'm pretty confident to "power change" the gears.. even in to smaller cogs, just using the throttle, but being progressive with it, not jerky!... Although I wouldn't really recommend it - but experience has shown me that it's no longer the drive chain killer it was before. (but it will wear it out quicker than changing gears properly! )

Connex 11SE

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