BBS02B/750w: First Build

[Gionnirocket]

Good day all.
I'm happy to report that the install went well and I clocked 16 miles late yesterday evening without a trial or tribulation.
I was surprised at how easy everything came apart on my 12 year old mtb and how even easier this thing was to install... and I'm no bike mechanic. The part that took the most time was the adapt_a_crapping of the rear rack for the battery to the full suspension as it required a few cycles of fit, remove, drill, grind, fabricate, and reinstall. I also set the battery on a slice of anti fatigue mat (dense neoprene) which should absorb some vibration and give me better battery life as it shouldn't get tired now

There's still a punch list of things to do like wire management, but that'll have to wait until the headlight/horn and fuse holders arrive.
The extra weight, especially the battery is definitely noticeable when man handling the bike or when breaking during a ride but wasn't apparent in how the bike handled in leans and turns. Getting the battery leaning forward as close to my a$$ as possible may have helped in not changing the overall center of gravity much.

This thing is certainly misnamed... as I would definitely call it a 10fun!
Thank you all for your input.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Now with 100 miles on her.. I'd like to share a few thoughts. I have my PAS scale set to 10, but really haven't had a need to go above 5.... 0, 3 & 4 get the most use.

On the positive side...
This thing has a great deal of torque. With a minimum of pedaling, you can fly up hills. I've yet to see it draw above 12 amps and that was when I was experimenting. Typical inrush is less than 10a and most assists are less than 5a.
It's very efficient. I started with a no load voltage of 51.9v and ended with 47.1v after a few days and 100 miles without any further charging. Granted I did a lot of the work as I ride to exercise... but the BBS02B helped out a lot on hills and at the end of some longer rides. Really made rides longer and relieved the stress of arriving home exhausted after going to far.
It's non-intrusive. I hardly know it's there when I ride at 0 assist.
I like the USB port on the battery. I can power a small mp3 speaker which I prefer over headphones during warmer weather.

On the negative side.... and these all are related.
It can lurch you forward even in PAS 1 when you are trying to be slow and controlled. Like navigating past people gathered at a narrow opening to a trail or slow coasting waiting to cross a busy road. I learned quickly to always drop to PAS 0.
It starts off in PAS 1 by default. 0 should be the default for safety. This also would solve the problem of stressing the controller, chain and the rest of the drive train no matter the gear you start in. Like I said before... This is a torque-ie s.o.b and I found the easiest thing to do is start in PAS 0.
I find the PAS system name to be misleading. It's more of a speed assists and engages when you drop below a certain speed... the pedals act only as a throttle switch, and typically are more of an On/Off than a ratio'd response. So if I'm steady pedaling in PAS 4 doing 10 mph, it does nothing. If I switch to PAS 5 it will instantly lurch me forward a few MPH and then disengage.
I had ASS'umed PAS would add a ratio of torque based on setting and pedaling. You can get it to feather in an amp or 3 of assistance if you are conscious of all and adjust your pedaling, but anything above 5 amps can feel aggressive.

I realize that this info is more for other beginners as most of you already know this.... But more importantly it didn't show up in any of the articles or videos that I came across prior to purchase. 99% of available info is on installation, modifications to go faster and add ons. Very little info is easily found on how it works out of the box.
Don't get me wrong.. I'm very happy with the BBS02B and I did a full charge overnight anticipating a long ride today as the weather here is perfect.
If anybody has some input on programming changes that can be made... most appreciated.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I put another 50 miles on her and I'm starting to rethink using the throttle. As mentioned I never thought I would use the throttle much... and getting assistance via PAS is sometimes lacking and then going up to the next level can be too aggressive for my taste. I tried adding a little throttle instead of increasing PAS and that seems to give results more in line with a fluid ride. Before trying I ASS'umed if the speed was too fast for PAS to kick in, it would be the same for the throttle.
Doing research and reading is always a good idea, but it's no substitute for a little hands-on experience. I moved my throttle to a more comfortable location on the bars now as I had originally thought I would rarely use it.
Next experiment... a little programming adjustment to see if I can take the edge off of initial motor engagement and reduce lurching forward when things aren't perfectly sync'd in my head.

 

[Gionnirocket]

500 miles+ and the tweaking of the controller programming made all the difference in the world. Just dropping the Current Limit to 20a on the Basics tab and Start Current to 15a on the Pedal Assist tab has taken the aggressive edge off and made the setup much more enjoyable and in line with how I ride.
I also changed the Designated Assist Level for the Throttle to 9... now I have full throttle capabilities in any PAS
And then I changed PAS1 to 0/0 same as Pas 0. To me that this thing doesn't start in PAS0 by default when turned on is not only stupid.. but non conforming with most other motorized vehicles for safety reasons.
I can't recommend a programming cable enough.

Now I'v come across this bonehead and a few of the same supporting written recommendations.

Anybody doing this?
Personally I think he's way over doing the amount of grease but it might be a good 1000 mi maintenance project...

 

[Gionnirocket]

Just under 3 months in on the build and I've broken the 1k mile mark.
For the most part things are going very well and have had no issues with the BBS02B itself... but lately I started having chain drops and a decline in shift smoothness so I've ordered a new freewheel, chain, chainring and BBS02B adapter. Considering that these are the original parts that came on the bike new with an estimated 6k+ miles on them in addition to the 1k since the build.. I think they've been on borrowed time for a while now.
I'm still contemplating the grease pack' mentioned in the previous post and figured doing it at the same time as the drive train replacement might make sense.

Anyone have any experience/comments on whether this is necessary? (cough- cough @Thomas Jaszewski : -)

I don't hear any noise coming from the motor and as you can see with the drive train... I sometimes defer to Don't fix what ain't broke... over preventative maintenance.

The silver lining in all this is that I've lost 10lbs in this same time frame.. So ba_humbug to those that say an ebike is cheating!

 

[tomjasz]

Well the “bonehead” is a friend, but definitely over does the grease and has horrible volume issues.
When learning to support BBSxx drives in 2014 this fellow gave me many hours of support and instructions.

Use Mobil SHC100 and lube as you think sensible.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Well the “bonehead” is a friend, but definitely over does the grease and has horrible volume issues.
When learning to support BBSxx drives in 2014 this fellow gave me many hours of support and instructions.

Use Mobil SHC100 and lube as you think sensible.

Thanks Thomas!
I can fall into the bonehead category myself at times so I understand.

If I can ask... at what point do you think it's necessary to start checking and/or replacing the grease?

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks Thomas!
I can fall into the bonehead category myself at times so I understand.

If I can ask... at what point do you think it's necessary to start checking and/or replacing the grease?

For a time it was needed on day one. They’ve been better about factory lube this past year. Personally I lube any new install. It’s easy and can save a major headache. I have two 2014 BBS01A versions that have never been opened. I keep saying I’ll replace them with BBS02B versions but they keep running. Kind of a coin toss, but lubing is the smarter move.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Thanks Thomas.
Seems the Bafang factory is the variable so I'll open her up at the drive train replacement and look and lube.

edit/add:
I just ordered some Mobil SHC 100.
I'm curious how / where the recommendation to use this grease came from? Bafang?
According to Mobil it has not been tested for use with Nylon or any other type of plastic.
They add that the motor manufacturer should be the authority on a grease spec. Since getting info from Bafang is not likely.. Who then?

 

[tomjasz]

Mobil SHC 100

It was recommended by Mobil tech over the Mobil 28. Bafang uses lithium-based grease on the synthetic gear. This is compatible.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Finally got around to checking the grease at around the 1650 mile mark. I wasn't hearing any noise but I opened her up, blew and wiped out as much of the Bafang grease as easily possible and repacked it with the Mobile SHC 100.
The amount of grease that was used at the factory seemed adequate, but I went a little heavier, but not near the amount the video suggested.
Went for a quick ride and all seemed the same.

 

[AHicks]

Guys, I'm considering trying a mid drive and have a question regarding the Bafang cadence "programming" (done with cable and software on a PC). Looking at BBSHD and the Ultra, and not very interested in the "torque sensing" PAS.

First question:
Pretty sure it's possible with the BBSHD, but is it possible to set an Ultra up with cadence sensing?

In the PAS programming, the stuff I've read about anyway (no experience here, this is one of the few places I've found that get into it: https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/26/a-hackers-guide-to-programming-the-bbs02/

In this article there's talk about power and speed regulation. My experience with hub drives to date has been "speed" based PAS generally leads to the "jerky" impressions left on many. Using a limited amount of "power" for each PAS level generally results in MUCH improved handling. This is what I'm curious about/looking for.

So the second question. In the setup parameters, am I able to select/define "power" based PAS levels exclusively? If so, does this apply to both the BBSHD and Ultra?

Thanks much for any help or insight! -Al

 

[Gionnirocket]

I only have experience with the the BBS02B so this may be anecdotal... But the ability to adjust power and speed for each PAS level has been instrumental in refining the smoothness of the motors engagement. That with a few other parameters that you can set such as Start Current and Start Degree has made the BBS02B as smooth as butter with zero lunging forward or jerkyness

 

[tomjasz]

No ultra experience and I don't expect I ever will. BBSxx series allows me to do my own repairs and have a good parts stream.

 

[AHicks]

Thomas, care to share your experience regarding programing the BBSxx to suit your tastes?

 

[Haystacks]

This blog is possibly the best resource for programming.

A Hacker’s Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD

One way that the BBS02 middrive unit shines over other competition like the Bosch is the ability to program the controller yourself. Although the process of programming the controller will void any…

electricbike-blog.com

 

[Gionnirocket]

This blog is possibly the best resource for programming.

A Hacker’s Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD

One way that the BBS02 middrive unit shines over other competition like the Bosch is the ability to program the controller yourself. Although the process of programming the controller will void any…

electricbike-blog.com

That's a good start and very helpful on learning what most settings do... though I found the suggested settings are still aggressive and geared towards younger trail riders.

 

[tomjasz]

Thomas, care to share your experience regarding programing the BBSxx to suit your tastes?

I tried to upload a bunch of .el (program parameter files) but couldn't. I still run EM3ev files and while I support users making changes to suit, I find the base programming just fine. But remember, I've regressed and now am happy with 20MPH speeds. Been riding my 2014 BBS01 350W daily. Full dork!

 

[tomjasz]

This blog is possibly the best resource for programming.

A Hacker’s Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD

One way that the BBS02 middrive unit shines over other competition like the Bosch is the ability to program the controller yourself. Although the process of programming the controller will void any…

electricbike-blog.com

sadly the source of some misinformation. But the .el file data is good!

 

[Gionnirocket]

I tried to upload a bunch of .el (program parameter files) but couldn't. I still run EM3ev files and while I support users making changes to suit, I find the base programming just fine. But remember, I've regressed and now am happy with 20MPH speeds. Been riding my 2014 BBS01 350W daily. Full dork!

The 350w is probably a little tamer to start... The 750w is too jumpy with the base programming for my full dork rides.