Batteries and What do you do when the manufacturer is no more?

procreator

procreator

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USA
I am shopping for an ebike. There are currently hundreds of manufacturers. Some, if not most will not survive. This brings up a question that may have already been answered on this forum, but I haven't seen it.

Most components on the ebike can be replaced. The battery, especially one that is integrated into the frame of the bike, may not be easy to replace if the manufacturer is no longer around in 8-10 years.

If so, how should I proceed? Do I stay with the Trek, Giant, and Specialized types of manufacturers who have been around for a long time and will likely continue to exist? Is there a way to rebuild a bike-specific battery? Are there other options?

Thanks!
 
There are two types of battery now and I predict going forward. Those that have proprietary firmware, aka BMS, because each brand has to be different. Or what is known as Open Source which pertains to the DIY market as well as the myriad RAD rip offs out and about from Asia that aren't as concerned with the proprietary aspect.

The frequency that the manufacturers change their spec does not guarantee that 10 yrs, or at end of original battery life let's say, that they will have replacement batteries and if so how old are they and how were they maintained during storage? It has already proven to be difficult to re-cell proprietary batteries but maybe that will mature along with the need.

Open source batteries are fully able to be re-celled and should be into the foreseeable future as long as they keep making 18650 and 21700 cells.
 
It's a bit odd, but most non-major brand bikes use generic battery cases that are readily available. Thar's because most ebikes come from China where designs are copied all the time. You might have to be fairly knowledgeable to ID them, but if it is a popular brand, some one will know..
 
What ebike manufacturers use open source batteries? On the other hand, what ebike manufacturers do you anticipate to be going strong 10 years from now?

Can I be more certain of being able to replace non-frame integrated batteries?

I am sure you see my dilemma...don't want to spend $4k+ for ebikes that will be boat anchors in 10 years.

Thanks!
 
harryS said:
It's a bit odd, but most non-major brand bikes use generic battery cases that are readily available. Thar's because most ebikes come from China where designs are copied all the time. You might have to be fairly knowledgeable to ID them, but if it is a popular brand, some one will know..
Click to expand...
Yep, many of the e-bike specific brands seem to use Reention battery cases. Reention seemed to make a name for itself with the Dorado series.


Heck, even old Silver Fish cases that have been around forever (over a decade) are still available either with batteries, or empty shells for the DIY re-builder. Of course, the BMS is a whole other kettle of fish.
 
JRA said:
There are two types of battery now and I predict going forward. Those that have proprietary firmware, aka BMS, because each brand has to be different. Or what is known as Open Source which pertains to the DIY market as well as the myriad RAD rip offs out and about from Asia that aren't as concerned with the proprietary aspect.

The frequency that the manufacturers change their spec does not guarantee that 10 yrs, or at end of original battery life let's say, that they will have replacement batteries and if so how old are they and how were they maintained during storage? It has already proven to be difficult to re-cell proprietary batteries but maybe that will mature along with the need.

Open source batteries are fully able to be re-celled and should be into the foreseeable future as long as they keep making 18650 and 21700 cells.
Click to expand...
Even well known manufacturers can leave customers in the lurch. There's been threads here about motor problems and the unavailability of replacements, either the whole motor or parts. Batteries? Controllers? Who knows? No one (no manufacturer) has committed to making parts available for any length of time.
 
Bicycles and ebikes are leisure consumer goods, not transportation vehicles. The fact the USDOT transferred regulatory authority to the CPSC has been both good and bad for ebike owners. The good is obvious, no registration, etc... The bad is orphaned ebikes. The DOT requires automobile manufacturers to support products for 10 years. We have no protections. One of my ebikes is a 2014 model and 🤞still going. Unfortunately orphaned though.
 
There will always be companies that repack batteries and integrated batteries can usually be removed by the owner so you would have that option. I buy MIC bikes but only bikes with a battery pack that can be sourced after market! Personally i try to avoid bikes with any "proprietary" parts just because i dont want the hassle of trying to replace them down the road.
 
antboy said:
Yep, many of the e-bike specific brands seem to use Reention battery cases. Reention seemed to make a name for itself with the Dorado series.


Heck, even old Silver Fish cases that have been around forever (over a decade) are still available either with batteries, or empty shells for the DIY re-builder. Of course, the BMS is a whole other kettle of fish.
Click to expand...
When i purchased my cruiser 3 years ago the Silver Fish was a big selling point! They had been around forever and i could still find them from multiple sources with ease! Same reason my other bikes have Reention Dorado battery packs! They are big and easy to source after market!
 
ElevenAD said:
When i purchased my cruiser 3 years ago the Silver Fish was a big selling point! They had been around forever and i could still find them from multiple sources with ease! Same reason my other bikes have Reention Dorado battery packs! They are big and easy to source after market!
Click to expand...
What bike are you referring to? Sounds like something I need to check out. Thanks!
 
antboy said:
Yep, many of the e-bike specific brands seem to use Reention battery cases. Reention seemed to make a name for itself with the Dorado series.


Heck, even old Silver Fish cases that have been around forever (over a decade) are still available either with batteries, or empty shells for the DIY re-builder. Of course, the BMS is a whole other kettle of fish.
Click to expand...
Shan Shan is the maker of Hailong cases. The two companies cover a majority of cases.
 
procreator said:
I found one outfit that refurbishes batteries. https://www.hicbattery.com/

The list a lot of manufacturers whose batteries they have refurbished. They also say they can refurb almost any battery.
Click to expand...
We seen a few recently that no one can rebuild. Be careful with that idea… One member hopes she can get a replacement and ship from vacation in Spain!
 
procreator said:
What bike are you referring to? Sounds like something I need to check out. Thanks!
Click to expand...
My Cruiser is an old Ariel Rider W-Class 750, the bike has been out of production for a few years now but i can still hop right on Amazon or Ali to find a replacement battery.
0920221724a.jpg
 
procreator said:
I found one outfit that refurbishes batteries. https://www.hicbattery.com/

The list a lot of manufacturers whose batteries they have refurbished. They also say they can refurb almost any battery.
Click to expand...
I have worked with the owner of that company back when he was still doing custom battery packs. He's a solid guy and thats a very solid outfit. But the caveats you have seen above with regard to some packs being unrebuildable are not to be taken lightly. There are no guarantees. Or rather there is only one: Build your own, and then you don't have any issues with being locked into a platform that a manufacturer has decided to EOL.

My Bullitt is a case in point. The company has an eBullitt whose gen1 motor is made by Shimano. In subsequent years, Shimano went to a gen2 motor, followed by their latest and greatest. Bullitt bikes are often used commercially (delivery vehicles, local handyman carrying tools etc.) and as regular family transportation / auto replacements. The bikes are quite expensive (about double your $4k budget) and you sure don't want to junk a bike like that unless you have to. The problem is, Shimano has designated that first-generation platform as End Of Life and is no longer producing spare or replacement parts for it. Better still, the proprietary Shimano motor mount... is different for each of their motor generations so you can't upgrade to a newer generation even if you were allowed to buy a motor alone that is not part of a bike. I saw a guy in I think France where he had a fleet of these things in his business and three of them were down due to a known fatal motor issue. His only alternative was to buy a new motor, have it installed and then sell the bike while everything was still working. The catch? Holders of those motors know what they have and the price tag for just a motor is about 1000 Euro.

I have one of these same bikes, but I bought the human-powered version and put my own motor on, with my own battery. If my motor goes belly up, $600 buys me a new one, assuming I cannot replace a worn out part from the vendors who make spares widely available worldwide. I had a reliable company in Pennsylvania make me a battery to order. And if anything ever goes wrong, I'm the one who decides if the bike is ready for the scrap heap... and seeing as we know bike frames typically last decades, my bike is going to be on the road lonnnnng after planned obsolescence claims many others.

The bad news is, you have to know wtf you are doing to go this route, and you have to be willing to go do it. Luckily for me I do, and I enjoy the work (not looking for a job. Already have one of those; just saying I like doing that for myself).

talesontwowheels.com

How To Build An Ebike From Scratch

You want to build an ebike, but the project seems overwhelming. Lets de-mystify the entire process, including planning, parts and perfecting the end result.
talesontwowheels.com talesontwowheels.com
 
procreator said:
I am shopping for an ebike. There are currently hundreds of manufacturers. Some, if not most will not survive. This brings up a question that may have already been answered on this forum, but I haven't seen it.

Most components on the ebike can be replaced. The battery, especially one that is integrated into the frame of the bike, may not be easy to replace if the manufacturer is no longer around in 8-10 years.

If so, how should I proceed? Do I stay with the Trek, Giant, and Specialized types of manufacturers who have been around for a long time and will likely continue to exist? Is there a way to rebuild a bike-specific battery? Are there other options?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
One thought would be to not buy an ebike with a battery integrated into the frame.
 
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