Barbecue grill for a safe charging station?

[m@Robertson]

Yes, but I think luck was part of the scenario there, because while he managed to keep the flames doused (and probably also kept the interiors cells cooler), it could have been a difference in the batteries themselves. How they were put together or arranged inside, I dunno. In the inside scenario, the flames seemed to be further along from the getgo, by the time Captain Underpants discovered it.

Also, did you see how filled with noxious smoke the room became? And how quickly! Smoke is what kills people in house fires, more than burns.

Yeah I'm sure that smoke was toxic.

Add to the variables on the first fire: A battery charged to 100% goes *BOOM*. One charged to 60% goes *fizzzzz*. So that no doubt played a role as well. Interesting that Tesla says to use a lot of water, but not to submerge. You'd think that would be a good thing. Perhaps it is but what it does to the water in the meantime is where the bad part is. No idea on that one.

For long term storage I keep them at 60%. My daughter and son-in-law just returned to their home after an extended absence and their battery packs were kept for over a year at 60% in the basement, with monthly checks using a charger set to that value (48v pack). I heard about it because they forgot that the charger had been dialed down and thought it was malfunctioning.

 

[tomjasz]

I've been eyeing this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S9SFCB8/?coliid=IXVFVXUMOZ6Y9&colid=1KERB770YRAW3&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

It isn't cheap and not perfect but a bit safer than a bag IMO. It can also be used to store flammable liquids when not charging.

I find it interesting that some take great care while charging their batteries but throw them in the trunk or the back seat of a car to transport. Battery fires are caused by physical damage as well as from charging accidents.

I carry mine in a padded bag inside a shock resistant foam lined case:



I put the battery and padded bag inside a pannier when carrying a spare on the bike. I use a piece of clothing in the pannier as added padding in case of a spill.

Overkill? Perhaps, but as the old saying goes, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I'm thinking shock-resistant cases will melt out, and fast.

I bought a flammable cabinet from Zoro. About once a year they do a deep discount and free shipping. I'm really wanting a lithium battery rated fire blanket, but for now this is my solution. Sorry to those that have seen me post this manytimes, but here's howmine has developed.


First I bought one of the largest Ammo cans. 40MM

Then I drilled 3/4" holes and protected with rubber grommets.

I removed the rubber gasket and am next adding Ceramic Fire Blanket like used in my wife's kiln.

I really now only need the Ammo Can. I bought the cabinet when I was still building and repairing batteries and doing customer service. But as it turns out I still have 5 batteries and still find it useful.

DON'T FORGET SOME WELDERS GLOVES!!

EXCUSE THE POOR EDITING. Please!

 

[m@Robertson]

Thats the same can I was talking about earlier. Also known as a 'tall 20mm'. I've seen them marked both ways. I started using them and the shorter 40mm version for camping as it was the best way to keep out the ravens or even a bear from your snack food. Dunno if you've ever seen what a murder of ravens can do to a campsite but it looks like a tornado went thru camp.

I never thought about the grommets though. I have a bunch just like that I can use.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I may be wrong here...
But I think charging outside a bit away from the house if possible surrounded by some concrete block for some containment is the safest solution I've seen so far.
Encasing it further in steel may just trap heat furthering runaway, make it harder to cool with water and if not sufficiently vented may just become a big bomb and possibly hurling shrapnel.
Honestly I haven't done much more than monitor charges closely and implement several series shutdown devices to prevent overcharging. My basement has a concrete floor and high ceiling with a smoke detector but isn't totally free of combustibles and I set up a few feet away from them. Though not the only cause, an overcharge malfunction seems to be the main reason for fires. I typically only charge to 80% anyway as that's all I need for most rides so it's not any inconvenience and I feel adds another layer of safety.

 

[6zfshdb]

I'm thinking shock-resistant cases will melt out, and fast.

Nice build! I might try the ammo can approach for individual charging but the cabinet would be necessary to store my other 5 batteries.

BTW, I don't use the plastic case for charging, just for physical protection during transport.

 

[tomjasz]

Encasing it further in steel may just trap heat furthering runaway, make it harder to cool with water and if not sufficiently vented may just become a big bomb and possibly hurling shrapnel.

interesting thought but not so. Check out the FAA approved containers.

interesting, the reason for ceramic lining and additional venting of ammo boxes. Just removing an ammo box gasket is insufficient.

 

[tomjasz]

Nice build! I might try the ammo can approach for individual charging but the cabinet would be necessary to store my other 5 batteries.

BTW, I don't use the plastic case for charging, just for physical protection during transport.

I did understand it was for transport. I thought maybe some others might have not realized that. It looks like a good idea! Dropped batteries can be accidents waiting to happen, especially with cheap glued packs.

 

[6zfshdb]

I may be wrong here...
But I think charging outside a bit away from the house if possible surrounded by some concrete block for some containment is the safest solution I've seen so far.
Encasing it further in steel may just trap heat furthering runaway, make it harder to cool with water and if not sufficiently vented may just become a big bomb and possibly hurling shrapnel.
Honestly I haven't done much more than monitor charges closely and implement several series shutdown devices to prevent overcharging. My basement has a concrete floor and high ceiling with a smoke detector but isn't totally free of combustibles and I set up a few feet away from them. Though not the only cause, an overcharge malfunction seems to be the main reason for fires. I typically only charge to 80% anyway as that's all I need for most rides so it's not any inconvenience and I feel adds another layer of safety.

Charging outdoors is arguably the best approach. Temperature control and protection from the elements become factors depending on where you live.

 

[Gionnirocket]

interesting thought but not so. Check out the FAA approved containers.

Are you sure....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2LgJCCfKDO0qXmudqKv2TZ

 

[Gionnirocket]

Charging outdoors is arguably the best approach. Temperature control and protection from the elements become factors depending on where you live.

And in part that's why I'm charging indoors.
I do think well ventilated can be better than encapsulation as releasing any potential heat/gas build up before a fire can be just as if not more important as fire containment. Is not prevention typically a better approach?
I think if I need to charge to 100% regularly I would implement some sort of thermal cutout with the monitor on the battery. It could be as simple as this

 

[tomjasz]

Are you sure....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2LgJCCfKDO0qXmudqKv2TZ

View attachment 126754

Yes I’m sure. You chose passenger aircraft. If I were a shop I’d look to Domino’s EU. There’s a lot more details than your pick. But I will agree that outdoor may be the least expensive solution but doesn’t solve charging through a MN winter. I’m seriously considering adding a blanket. But they are expensive. At least the truly effective versions are.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yes I’m sure. You chose passenger aircraft. If I were a shop I’d look to Domino’s EU. There’s a lot more details than your pick. But I will agree that outdoor may be the least expensive solution but doesn’t solve charging through a MN winter. I’m seriously considering adding a blanket. But they are expensive. At least the truly effective versions are.

Why... Do fires burn differently on cargo aircraft or your garage?
The point being that prevention and separation without restricted containment is very important in reducing risk

 

[Taylor57]

Now Im afraid to charge an ebike

 

[m@Robertson]

104 degrees outside yesterday. Supposed to be the same today. Ambient temp on my battery was 100 on arrival (temperature sensors are an easy safeguard to install). Charging outdoors is simply not feasible. Especially on a bike driven daily that is charged both during the work day and at night upon arrival home. For occasional recreational bikes this stuff is more practical. Not on a bike used for regular transportation. Thats where things like paying attention to temperature and amperage, using cutoffs, quality chargers and spending money to buy a quality battery from a trusted source have to take over. For something you have to just walk up to and ride, usability has to be there.

 

[Gionnirocket]

104 degrees outside yesterday. Supposed to be the same today. Ambient temp on my battery was 100 on arrival (temperature sensors are an easy safeguard to install). Charging outdoors is simply not feasible. Especially on a bike driven daily that is charged both during the work day and at night upon arrival home. For occasional recreational bikes this stuff is more practical. Not on a bike used for regular transportation. Thats where things like paying attention to temperature and amperage, using cutoffs, quality chargers and spending money to buy a quality battery from a trusted source have to take over. For something you have to just walk up to and ride, usability has to be there.

I concur.
I'm a casual user and don't want to bother with the environmental issues/hassle with charging outdoors.

edit: I wonder if something like this makes more sense.
Not to put out the fire but contain it to a small area by tenting?

6 ft. x 8 ft. Heavy Duty Fiberglass Welding Blanket

Amazing deals on this 6Ft X 8Ft Heavy Duty Fiberglass Weld Blanket at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

 

[tomjasz]

Why... Do fires burn differently on cargo aircraft or your garage?
The point being that prevention and separation without restricted containment is very important in reducing risk

You've reduced it to silly! No! Of course not. That wasn't the point. (remember we're collaborators! and this ain't collaborating)
All truly effective solutions are expensive. I'm pestering the local FD to do some testing. I've got a 100-cell pack and would like to see if my home-built rig similar to the $600 Lithium battery boxes works out. All the effective boxes are still off-gasing and none will be truly safe in my basement. I dunno, maybe it's a bandaid on a severed limb...

I've read dozens of sites and there seems to be a LOT of confusion on what is most effective. ABC? Class-D? Do Li on batteries produce oxygen? Some tell us they create their own oxygen? In the final analysis, it's buying the best-built battery. WHo's has the least problems? EM3ev? Grin? Bosch? or???

 

[vincent]

excited to build a couple of the ammo can setups, this seems like a good solution and something I can do

i can charge outside a lot of the time

I also keep my Batteries in the 50-60% range and charge before the ride 90% of the time

Tom if you have some good pics of finished ammo can set ups please post them

 

[tomjasz]

excited to build a couple of the ammo can setups, this seems like a good solution and something I can do

i can charge outside a lot of the time

I also keep my Batteries in the 50-60% range and charge before the ride 90% of the time

Tom if you have some good pics of finished ammo can set ups please post them

I’m trying to get the local FD to weigh in but so far nada. I finally ordered the ceramic cloth. I’ve posted pictures here several times. But none with the ceramic cloth as I’ve not finished the install yet.

 

[Taylor57]

I have decided to only charge inside now. I also keep all my bikes and chargers inside. Today is mild- 103 and humid. I did take Sport and XP out on mini tours around the neighborrhood to keep them fresh. Aired up the tires and used the Rock and Roll lube on both chains. Kinda missing my Frey CC. I hardly knew her! It's just too hot to ride. Cant wait till my month in Seattle starting July 4

 

[tomjasz]

excited to build a couple of the ammo can setups, this seems like a good solution and something I can do

i can charge outside a lot of the time

I also keep my Batteries in the 50-60% range and charge before the ride 90% of the time

Tom if you have some good pics of finished ammo can set ups please post them

DIY indoor charging station

I live in an apartment with no garage. My Gazelle T10 is chained up underneath the back stairs of the building. I take my battery into my apartment to charge. The owner of the building has legitimate concerns about safety in the unlikely but still possible event of a battery explosion. So I'm...

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