Are we getting suckered by online eBike companys?

[john peck]

But the missing parts of your calculus tell a tale as well... that people who own higher end bikes here are often retired and also can afford $300 sunglasses to extra batteries and solar systems, trailers that cost half as much as a cheaper ebike, backpacks and tents that cost more than the other guy makes in a week, can afford hotels along the way when necessary, a nice truck at home to come pick up the bike, and so on.
AND their homes and cottages are in areas where scenic routes are close, and for them, air travel with bikes is also taken as a "given" possibility.

These are not uber eats delivery guys.

People will ride what they can afford. Back when only the rich could afford automobiles, Henry Ford came up with a durable car for
$650. By 1921 he was the richest man in America.

 

[Handlebars]

People will ride what they can afford. Back when only the rich could afford automobiles, Henry Ford came up with a durable car for
$650. By 1921 he was the richest man in America.

..and it spurred an industrial revolution of how to mass produce.

 

[jim6b]

You must prepay with a credit card. They charge the card. If you cancel they charge 3%. Claiming that's what the credit card company charges.

"Claiming"? You would question whether credit card companies charge that much.

Wow, you must be a millennial.

 

[Art Deco]

But the missing parts of your calculus tell a tale as well... that people who own higher end bikes here are often retired and also can afford $300 sunglasses to extra batteries and solar systems, trailers that cost half as much as a cheaper ebike, backpacks and tents that cost more than the other guy makes in a week, can afford hotels along the way when necessary, a nice truck at home to come pick up the bike, and so on.
AND their homes and cottages are in areas where scenic routes are close, and for them, air travel with bikes is also taken as a "given" possibility.

These are not uber eats delivery guys.

"Living The Dream" doesn't include hauling pizzas and groceries through the back alleyways for me. "Working For A Living " may include that and much worse. Different use cases, different machines.

 

[Handlebars]

"Living The Dream" doesn't include hauling pizzas and groceries through the back alleyways for me. "Working For A Living " may include that and much worse. Different use cases, different machines.

Of course, but that wasn't the main thrust of what I said. Going back to the original post, the distinction made is with regard to high-end bikes vs low-end bikes. My argument is that he's seeing a wealthier crowd's activities, not looking at what the respective high-end/low-end bikes' capabilities are.
As a proxy for capability of touring bike, I don't think it reflects the bike's capabilities or qualities as much as it does the pocketbook/life stage of the owner.

If the topic is, say, some kind of extreme mountain climbing rock hopping bike activities, then probably the activity being seen in forums is a better proxy for the high-end/low-end bike capability - not so much a good proxy when it's posts of the touring of nice places and viewing some nice scenery (often to where any car can travel to).

 

[Art Deco]

OK. Jaguar and Toyota owners both drive to work and pick up takeout food. Same activities. ?

 

[Handlebars]

OK. Jaguar and Toyota owners both drive to work and pick up takeout food. Same activities. ?

I'd agree. Go on

 

[john peck]

..and it spurred an industrial revolution of how to mass produce.

Yeah, that kinda put my grandfather´s horses & mules corral outa business.

 

[Art Deco]

I'd agree. Go on

So the obvious difference is price. A DTC bike vs a boutique bike is the same situation as far as I can see. That people buy what they can afford isn't exactly news, and I am still not sure what this thread is about.

 

[Explorer-1]

It's not just on-line only companies. A very popular NewYork Dealer is requiring a deposit (while not huge), on some e-bikes from a large manufacturer, because the manufacturer apparently is trying to distribute bikes where they are needed rather than for showrooms. So right now this issue is more universal. However this is the same as the crowd funding companies and such, I'm surprised what people are willing to pay for sight unseen just because they think they are saving a bit of money. In many cases they really are not, but in a few cases they are but they are taking a big risk.

 

[Handlebars]

So the obvious difference is price.

JAGUAR E‑PACE. Starting at $49,500 CAD
Toyota Camry HYbrid XLE $41,350

​

....to me the more obvious difference would have been reliability and maintenance because you're talking about one of the top most reliable makes (Toyota) vs one of the lesser (Jaguar), but Jag has been taking notes.

 

[Handlebars]

I am still not sure what this thread is about.

That analogy did take a side trip.

 

[Handlebars]

So the obvious difference is price. A DTC bike vs a boutique bike is the same situation as far as I can see. That people buy what they can afford isn't exactly news, and I am still not sure what this thread is about.

It's about whether or not customers are being suckered if putting up the cash for promises to be kept maybe months away.
I bought my bike from one of those sellers when it was in stock, a year ago, but I'm now resisting the urge to preorder or direct from China order anything expensive because of the meltdown of all sensibility. Lockdown this, lockdown that.

 

[Ebiker33]

But the missing parts of your calculus tell a tale as well... that people who own higher end bikes here are often retired and also can afford $300 sunglasses to extra batteries and solar systems, trailers that cost half as much as a cheaper ebike, backpacks and tents that cost more than the other guy makes in a week, can afford hotels along the way when necessary, a nice truck at home to come pick up the bike, and so on.
AND their homes and cottages are in areas where scenic routes are close, and for them, air travel with bikes is also taken as a "given" possibility.

These are not uber eats delivery guys.

I agree with what you say, but perhaps you missed the COVID variable in 2020, thousands of people still working would have taken trips for their holidays , some exotic and expensive and they were completely shut down, as the staycation began, they had more disposable income and suddenly people were blowing 3K plus on new Ebikes, money that would have gone into vacations this year.
It's one of the reasons the supply chain is low for almost all brands right now.
Retired money will always be there for the retiring boomers with fat pensions.

 

[rich c]

People will ride what they can afford. Back when only the rich could afford automobiles, Henry Ford came up with a durable car for
$650. By 1921 he was the richest man in America.

I think you are forgetting about Rockefellers and Carnegie. In 1918, Ford was tied for 7th and was a long way off John D. Rockefeller with $1.2 billion vs $100 million. I doubt if Ford sold enough model Ts in 3 years to make up the difference. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasew...-richest-americans-were-in-1918/#6bef38404c0d

 

[Art Deco]

It's about whether or not customers are being suckered if putting up the cash for promises to be kept maybe months away.
I bought my bike from one of those sellers when it was in stock, a year ago, but I'm now resisting the urge to preorder or direct from China order anything expensive because of the meltdown of all sensibility. Lockdown this, lockdown that.

That is just standard practice for many things in short supply. If you buy from a wholesaler you pay a preorder deposit, and if you cancel you will pay a restocking fee of 15% or more. But that isn't a ripoff.

If they actually deliver a bike (or any product) for less money than a store, that's not a scam, but it's a risk. A risk that I might take for a delivery bike as a cheap investment. But I wouldn't take a big risk for a hobby.
Way off topic I had no idea that Jaguar was selling a 40,000 car today.

Any motor car at $250,000+ would be a better example, but the point is still price ... when you buy online, you can save money. You don't always get a better or worse value, just a lower price in return for your risk and your labor.
.

 

[Taylor57]

But the missing parts of your calculus tell a tale as well... that people who own higher end bikes here are often retired and also can afford $300 sunglasses to extra batteries and solar systems, trailers that cost half as much as a cheaper ebike, backpacks and tents that cost more than the other guy makes in a week, can afford hotels along the way when necessary, a nice truck at home to come pick up the bike, and so on.
AND their homes and cottages are in areas where scenic routes are close, and for them, air travel with bikes is also taken as a "given" possibility.

These are not uber eats delivery guys.

Hey I resemble that remark. I am driving a cheap ebike and living the dream!

 

[Art Deco]

Hey I resemble that remark. I am driving a cheap ebike and living the dream!

Excellent. There are many on this forum that are very happy with a "cheap" ebike, and they get out and ride some to some very cool places ... that's the key. You are in Florida, so they should all get you anywhere you want to go.

If you want to bike camp in the Serria Nevada mountains for a week, that's a different bike requirement, of course, but to just have fun with it shouldn't require a lot of money or mechanical ability.

 

[john peck]

I think you are forgetting about Rockefellers and Carnegie. In 1918, Ford was tied for 7th and was a long way off John D. Rockefeller with $1.2 billion vs $100 million. I doubt if Ford sold enough model Ts in 3 years to make up the difference. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasew...-richest-americans-were-in-1918/#6bef38404c0d

I think you are forgetting about Rockefellers and Carnegie. In 1918, Ford was tied for 7th and was a long way off John D. Rockefeller with $1.2 billion vs $100 million. I doubt if Ford sold enough model Ts in 3 years to make up the difference. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasew...-richest-americans-were-in-1918/#6bef38404c0d

Rockefeller had $1.4 billion when he died in 1937, surpassing Ford. According to Wikipedia the greatest wealth in the Twentiies is disputed
twixt Carnegie, Astor, Vanderbilt, & Ford based on their percentage of the GDP. The source I had gave it to Ford in 1921, But who can present
an exact amount in dollars & cents. Anyhow, Ford got mighty damn rich selling ´affordable´ cars which was really my point.

 

[Taylor57]

Excellent. There are many on this forum that are very happy with a "cheap" ebike, and they get out and ride some to some very cool places ... that's the key. You are in Florida, so they should all get you anywhere you want to go.

If you want to bike camp in the Serria Nevada mountains for a week, that's a different bike requirement, of course, but to just have fun with it shouldn't require a lot of money or mechanical ability.

I only trust my bike to take me on my "tour of the village" staying on bike paths, well paved streets, sidewalks and an occasional trail-all within a AAA rescue of my home. Right now, a 10-15 mile ride is just perfect to get my heart beating and some decent breathing. I don't look forward to a flat tire or even a minor spill. Those days are in my Mirrycle rear view mirror...