Are we getting suckered by online eBike companys?

[fooferdoggie]

And if I get bored with riding and the bike sits for awhile or even breaks and is toast I am out a $$grand. If I buy a fancy bike, I'm out $$5-10k...

and if you find you like to ride and plan on doing a lot you find that cheap bike is not unto it you're out the money.

 

[fooferdoggie]

the biggest problem is in the us bikes are toys so why pay more for a toy? myself my bike is my transportation and I want to reliable dependable and for it to fit me. fit saves me money.

 

[tlippy]

Strange. I've gotten all kinds of refunds and I've never had that happen. You may want to inquire with your credit card company. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the banks don't keep the 3% In case of a refund.

Was the preorder more than 90 days ago? That might change things.

Nope on 90 days. Placed the order 2 days ago. Didn't know about this policy until I inquired: "what if you miss your delivery promise-do I get a full refund" ? "Sure - if it hasn't shipped. Cost to refund is 3%."

 

[GypsyTreker]

and if you find you like to ride and plan on doing a lot you find that cheap bike is not unto it you're out the money.

Actually if you sold it for $600, your out $400. Not a bad price to pay to see if you will enjoy it. If your into a 5k bike and go to sell it for top dollar, your going to be out $1k or more. This is using the assumption the bikes are the consumers first eBikes.

Personally if I were a younger man I would own an LBS. I would have a used eBike dept to facilitate trade in's and up,s, a marketable accessories and parts dept and maybe a pvt label eBike line and battery rental section tied into service dept to help generate some good will funds to defray customer service and relation issues.

 

[Dallant]

Looks like a new business model is emerging-and we are bringing it upon ourselves! JIT. Means JUST IN TIME. In out quest to always buy the cheapest the online guys are accommodating our desire. But it's coming at a cost and risk. Hereafter is my opinion. And you know what opinions are? Everyone has one.
I just ordered a 700 from Ride 1 Up. $1500 in advance with a delivery estimate of Sep 15. This is where the new JIT business model kicks in. They have no inventory. Your order gets in line with all the rest. After the charge is approved by the credit card company. They order the bikes from China, using our money and hope the product arrives close to the promised delivery date. It is more complicated I know but -in essence that's what it is. They can miss the promised delivery date by as much as 90 days and if you want your $$$ refunded, it costs you $45. Pretty clever I'd say!
It's not just R1U. Aventon has the same policy. And we're doing it to ourselves! How? Today's buyers have no concept of what a contract means. If you place an order it means you're committed. Truthfully, I'm happy these guys have figured a way to make it cost $ to be a "wishywashy" buyer. Your word to buy should be backed up with consequences.
The risk! A few years back I ordered $40,000 in good coins from The Washington Territorial Mint in Seattle. They too got all the $$$$ up front. They then ordered from the U.S. mint. My order was 6 months past promised date. I did get the coins. Three months later they declared bankruptcy. All those people behind me lost their $$$$.
Going in I knew the risks. I'm willing to take them to get something I want for a fair price.
Are you?

In the case of two Lay-Z Boy chairs I ordered. Was told when I bought, but before they got my CC number, they’d be in my house by June 1. Now I’m told I’ll be lucky if they will be in the warehouse by the second week in August. I did not know the “risks” beforehand.

 

[BET]

I like the direct to consumer model. It brings e bike ownership to many who would otherwise not buy an e bike. The two bikes we ordered this year are great. They have good components and I would not hesitate to take them on a longer ride within their battery range. Yes, we did have to wait six weeks but it was worth it. It is not the bike companies fault that production and shipping are slowed and demand far outstrips supply. LBS probably have little inventory as well. I have ridden bikes all my life and did not pay a lot for my non electric aluminium hybrid bike. I have had that bike for twenty years and have been satisfied with it. FYI the 3 percent credit card cancellation fee is listed on the R1Up website. If you do not like that order from someone else.

 

[Bigal1463]

It’s a typical method used by building contractors. They get your money Up front and keep you on hold until future customers come up with money to start or finish your job. And it goes on and on. They basically start a business with your money.

 

[Art Deco]

I agree with @richc as far as people asking what eBike to purchase. Do the research , read owner posts telling of their experience owning a particular company's product and make your own decision.

Some people just want someone else to decide. I don't understand it, but I've seen it happen too many times to ignore.

 

[Art Deco]

Actually if you sold it for $600, your out $400. Not a bad price to pay to see if you will enjoy it. If your into a 5k bike and go to sell it for top dollar, your going to be out $1k or more. This is using the assumption the bikes are the consumers first eBikes.

Personally if I were a younger man I would own an LBS. I would have a used eBike dept to facilitate trade in's and up,s, a marketable accessories and parts dept and maybe a pvt label eBike line and battery rental section tied into service dept to help generate some good will funds to defray customer service and relation issues.

You forgot the part about fighting the local PTB(Powers That Be) that are trying to support automobiles, long commutes, and surburbia

 

[GypsyTreker]

Actually I haven't. The "slog" is huge but I have to think a "bicycle shop" is pretty benign. If that didn't work an adult book store and free pass card to the city council with room enough to expand.... Into a bike store LOL

Its nice being too old to even act on a business plan ahhhhhhh

 

[Ebiker33]

Well has the company been around for a while and are they prospering ?
Companies like Rad Power & Sondors are hardly new, I wouldn't worry about them saying you will have your Ebike in 3 months give us some money now.

There are some newer start ups that I also have less concerns about based on the early success they appear to be having right now, examples such as Watt Wagons and DOST.

However a few years ago the watch industry was doing this and I lost $250 on a down payment on a new watch that was coming out, what made me so mad was that I had previously spent a couple thousand with this company so I was an existing customer they knew and still ripped off, despite a dozen unanswered emails and a dozen attempted phone calls and face book messages....dead air from the vendor/owner and I wasn't the only one. I even offered to put the money toward a stocked item....nope he stole my money with no communication, so yeah I get the OP message.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I don't buy this thinking. It's ego that's driving this decision. IMHO the vast majority here want a descent bike that's priced for the components. Not for a brand name. Do you really think the majority here would notice the difference between a Shimano Acera vs an XTR group? I would think bike snobs would even find the XTR not satisfacrory.

I think the most loving word in the English language is "Look".

If you look at the forums, there are multiple threads where people post photos of where they ride their e-bikes. What I see is a lot of people with pretty nice e-bikes riding great rides and living the dream. I see far fewer people with cheap no-name e-bikes riding great rides and living the dream.

If you look at the brand-specific forums, you read lots of tales of woe. However, a difference that is pretty easy to shake out is that a lot of cheap bikes come broken from the manufacturer and the owner gets little or no help. On the other hand, a lot of the problems in the R&M forum seem to be about "I rode this bike over 10,000km and it crapped out." And you see very few complaints about wheel failures, warped brake rotors, &c in high-end bike forums, but those seem extremely common with the less expensive brands. So there seem to be two distinct patterns here about e-bike failures.

A broken bike is not a fun bike. A bike that you can ride to hell and back today and when you get up the next day all you want to do is ride there again is a fun bike.

On components, I do kind of agree with you. Especially the very high-end group sets are often overpriced and primarily designed for racing and not actual day-in day-out use. On the other hand, there is no question in my mind that having nice wheels makes a huge difference in how much you'll enjoy riding your bike, and unless you are just going crazy you likely won't regret the extra ducats you spend on those spiffy wheels.

Full disclosure: I am in the midst of my fifth brake upgrade, with the front brake going full-on Shimano Deore XTR and 203mm Ice-Tec Rotors front and rear. There seems to be a cycle going on: I upgrade the brakes, get more confident and go faster on the downhills, then discover the limits of the gear and want to upgrade. I am running out of room on that cycle so I don't know what will come next...

Full disclosure: My bike does not sit in the garage and collect dust. I ride my bike every day and collect dust honestly on jeep roads and cow paths.

 

[tlippy]

I think the most loving word in the English language is "Look".

If you look at the forums, there are multiple threads where people post photos of where they ride their e-bikes. What I see is a lot of people with pretty nice e-bikes riding great rides and living the dream. I see far fewer people with cheap no-name e-bikes riding great rides and living the dream.

If you look at the brand-specific forums, you read lots of tales of woe. However, a difference that is pretty easy to shake out is that a lot of cheap bikes come broken from the manufacturer and the owner gets little or no help. On the other hand, a lot of the problems in the R&M forum seem to be about "I rode this bike over 10,000km and it crapped out." And you see very few complaints about wheel failures, warped brake rotors, &c in high-end bike forums, but those seem extremely common with the less expensive brands. So there seem to be two distinct patterns here about e-bike failures.

A broken bike is not a fun bike. A bike that you can ride to hell and back today and when you get up the next day all you want to do is ride there again is a fun bike.

On components, I do kind of agree with you. Especially the very high-end group sets are often overpriced and primarily designed for racing and not actual day-in day-out use. On the other hand, there is no question in my mind that having nice wheels makes a huge difference in how much you'll enjoy riding your bike, and unless you are just going crazy you likely won't regret the extra ducats you spend on those spiffy wheels.

Full disclosure: I am in the midst of my fifth brake upgrade, with the front brake going full-on Shimano Deore XTR and 203mm Ice-Tec Rotors front and rear. There seems to be a cycle going on: I upgrade the brakes, get more confident and go faster on the downhills, then discover the limits of the gear and want to upgrade. I am running out of room on that cycle so I don't know what will come next...

Full disclosure: My bike does not sit in the garage and collect dust. I ride my bike every day and collect dust honestly on jeep roads and cow paths.

What do you consider a "cheap " bike. I don't think my R1U 700 is a cheap bike. Do you have specific Brands, types, other ways to I'D a cheap bike

 

[TomD]

I would say $1.5k is fairly inexpensive for an ebike. Depending on company you might still get a lot of bike for your money. I'd put R1U in that category.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

What do you consider a "cheap " bike. I don't think my R1U 700 is a cheap bike. Do you have specific Brands, types, other ways to I'D a cheap bike

1. Go on Amazon.
2. Search for "electric bikes"
3. Look.

What you'll see is e-bikes that look suspiciously like a Rad Rover or an Aventon Pace. Which I also consider "cheap" e-bikes but have somewhat better customer support than those no-name bikes you purchase off of Amazon.

My observation has been that a majority of the e-bike startups are basically contracting with a factory in China to private label one of those bikes. There isn't a lot to distinguish them from each other and all of them to some extent are going to have quality issues. If you are mechanically inclined, don't mind fixing the stuff that will break, and are okay with the inherent limitations of such a bike you probably will have quite a bit of fun with an Aventon or Rad bike. But given that you would basically get no support from any of the other companies selling such bikes I would avoid them like toxic waste.

There are a few tells when looking at e-bikes that should warn you off:

• The bike only comes in one size. If you are of average size, such a bike might work for you. But a lot of what makes a bike comfortable is about proper fit, and an uncomfortable bike is likely to spend a lot of time in the garage.
• 160mm brake rotors. All of these bikes are very heavy and, in all honestly, most e-bikers are on the stout side. So 160mm brakes, whether hydraulic or mechanical, aren't likely to be adequate. You can disagree with me but it is your bones you are going to break.
• If they look suspiciously like the Rad or Aventon bikes.
• Very poor ergonomics. Because the people who design these things don't ride bikes, or at least don't ride them very far. This is harder to see unless you can actually touch the bike but my observations of these bikes has been that they aren't exactly comfortable to ride and have poor saddles, grips, and pedals. Don't get me started about the displays and buttons on the displays...

My concern and my fear is that a lot of people who would otherwise enjoy an electric bike are likely to have their first introduction to e-bikes on such a bike. And when the bike is very uncomfortable (because of poor fit and poor ergonomics) or breaks seemingly at a harsh word they are unlikely to have a positive experience.

 

[Asher]

Nope on 90 days. Placed the order 2 days ago. Didn't know about this policy until I inquired: "what if you miss your delivery promise-do I get a full refund" ? "Sure - if it hasn't shipped. Cost to refund is 3%."

That is ridiculous. You should consult the bank that issued the credit card.

 

[GypsyTreker]

I would say $1.5k is fairly inexpensive for an ebike. Depending on company you might still get a lot of bike for your money. I'd put R1U in that category.

Ecotric's 26" fattie (36v/500w) and their 20" fattie folder ( 36v/500w) are both sub-$1000k bikes that fit alot of eBike riders "real" considerations. By real....100-150 miles a month, mostly bike paths (paved or gravel).

I mean eBikes, Motorcycles,Guitar's, Archery etc have folks that eat, sleep and breathe the activity. These folks will aspire to top of the line product because of either a need ( it's true high end stuff will mostly perform better than low end stuff) or bragging rights. If Eric Clapton tells me he can discern the difference of different body or neck material on an electric guitar, I guess I would believe him. If my friends who play tell me they can, I know it's probably bs, because they are simply not that developed as players. Those tone woods guitars companies sell are the high end. Same with bicycles. Some use them enough to appreciate the kind of differences that don't even show up riding at a leisurely pace with the wife on a weekend. Many just want those on "cheaper" bikes to know they got a high-end unit. Sometimes if someone sees my fattie for the first time they are thinking "expensive" when I tell them $850 there jaw drops because they now see something new to them as affordable. Personally I see under $3k as the low-end but not junk.

 

[Art Deco]

Actually I haven't. The "slog" is huge but I have to think a "bicycle shop" is pretty benign. If that didn't work an adult book store and free pass card to the city council with room enough to expand.... Into a bike store LOL

Its nice being too old to even act on a business plan ahhhhhhh

Although I still regret seeing a business that is needed not acted on

 

[Taylor57]

If I happen to go downtown for a ride and stop at Tommy Bahamas for a cocktail, I would be worried the whole time if my Riese and Muller was chained up in the bike rack. I would also probably be hesitant to let others ride it. With the 2 bikes I have ordered so far, Lectric and Sport (to be delivered this month) I wouldn't hesitate to chain em up and enjoy a coconut shrimp. I would even consider letting my adult sons take them for awhile. If they break, I watch the Youtube video and try to fix. If they get stolen, I find a new hobby...

 

[TomD]

That is ridiculous. You should consult the bank that issued the credit card.

I would agree that open ended is unreasonable. It should be stated up front, for example up to 30 or 60 days beyond original estimate, after which the customer gets a full refund. To have it open ended, for example 60 or 90 days late and still charge a cancellation fee would probably be deemed an unfair contract.