Are we getting suckered by online eBike companys?

Rockefeller had $1.4 billion when he died in 1937, surpassing Ford. According to Wikipedia the greatest wealth in the Twentiies is disputed
twixt Carnegie, Astor, Vanderbilt, & Ford based on their percentage of the GDP. The source I had gave it to Ford in 1921, But who can present
an exact amount in dollars & cents. Anyhow, Ford got mighty damn rich selling ´affordable´ cars which was really my point.1
100 years ago fossil fuel and automobiles, 75 years ago plastics, 40 years ago personal computers and the web, 20 years ago genetic modifications, there is always someone making money on technology, thank goodness.Today's billionares are almost all from digital tech, but tomarrows will be from something else.
Selling ebikes online today isn't that big a change from Sears selling mail order pocket watches 100 years ago, really.
 
Rockefeller had $1.4 billion when he died in 1937, surpassing Ford. According to Wikipedia the greatest wealth in the Twentiies is disputed
twixt Carnegie, Astor, Vanderbilt, & Ford based on their percentage of the GDP. The source I had gave it to Ford in 1921, But who can present
an exact amount in dollars & cents. Anyhow, Ford got mighty damn rich selling ´affordable´ cars which was really my point.
My favorite story about Ford is that $5 a day wage. It's often stated he did that so workers could afford his cars. In reality, it was to maintain a steady workforce. So many workers were quitting each day, they couldn't hire and train enough replacements. But at $5 a day, the workers basically sold their souls and put up with the horrible working conditions. I relate to it when I went to work for Caterpillar. I was not the type to be comfortable with working in a giant corporation, but for the money and benefits I did it. But I did it my way by quitting after 15 years, took 11 years off to operate a business, then went back when they offered to retain my previous seniority for another 15 years to be eligible for a pension. Worked out great!
 
I only trust my bike to take me on my "tour of the village" staying on bike paths, well paved streets, sidewalks and an occasional trail-all within a AAA rescue of my home. Right now, a 10-15 mile ride is just perfect to get my heart beating and some decent breathing. I don't look forward to a flat tire or even a minor spill. Those days are in my Mirrycle rear view mirror...
I have the same mirror, but eyes in the back of my head still would be better. You still get a blind spot on curves, drops & rises. Gotta be
super-cautious; itś a jungle out there.:eek:
My favorite story about Ford is that $5 a day wage. It's often stated he did that so workers could afford his cars. In reality, it was to maintain a steady workforce. So many workers were quitting each day, they couldn't hire and train enough replacements. But at $5 a day, the workers basically sold their souls and put up with the horrible working conditions. I relate to it when I went to work for Caterpillar. I was not the type to be comfortable with working in a giant corporation, but for the money and benefits I did it. But I did it my way by quitting after 15 years, took 11 years off to operate a business, then went back when they offered to retain my previous seniority for another 15 years to be eligible for a pension. Worked out great!
I´ve never had an attention span like that. I´m quite certain I´ve had at least 100 different jobs,(at least). If I didn´t like the outfit, I´d be gone
before the coffee break. Even jobs I liked fairly well were gone as soon as I wasn´t learning anything new. They didn´t call it ADD back then.
I have the attention span of a gerbal. Somehow fortune finally smiled on me. I´m pretty content with what I have now. Sean Connery was once
asked the secret of his success; He replied,¨ Keep moving with your eyes open.¨
 
Looks like a new business model is emerging-and we are bringing it upon ourselves! JIT. Means JUST IN TIME. In out quest to always buy the cheapest the online guys are accommodating our desire. But it's coming at a cost and risk. Hereafter is my opinion. And you know what opinions are? Everyone has one:mad:.
I just ordered a 700 from Ride 1 Up. $1500 in advance with a delivery estimate of Sep 15. This is where the new JIT business model kicks in. They have no inventory. Your order gets in line with all the rest. After the charge is approved by the credit card company. They order the bikes from China, using our money and hope the product arrives close to the promised delivery date. It is more complicated I know but -in essence that's what it is. They can miss the promised delivery date by as much as 90 days and if you want your $$$ refunded, it costs you $45. Pretty clever I'd say!
It's not just R1U. Aventon has the same policy. And we're doing it to ourselves! How? Today's buyers have no concept of what a contract means. If you place an order it means you're committed. Truthfully, I'm happy these guys have figured a way to make it cost $ to be a "wishywashy" buyer. Your word to buy should be backed up with consequences.
The risk! A few years back I ordered $40,000 in good coins from The Washington Territorial Mint in Seattle. They too got all the $$$$ up front. They then ordered from the U.S. mint. My order was 6 months past promised date. I did get the coins. Three months later they declared bankruptcy. All those people behind me lost their $$$$.
Going in I knew the risks. I'm willing to take them to get something I want for a fair price.
Are you?
Speaking of coins , there was a guy named Tulving who wiped out a whole bunch of people who bought gold and silver coins from him, back around the time gold last peaked at $1900. The Feds went after him. Not sure what happened in the end, but it wasn’t his first rodeo where he got in trouble. A lot of the online E-Bike firms are gonna go belly up in the end. Just never know when it’s gonna be you, who gets left holding the empty bag. You paid your money and end up with no E-Bikes, and zero recourse, when they suddenly close doors. Even chargebacks won’t save you in those situations. As these critical component delays get worse and worse, due to severe shortages, and yours gets delayed going on months, at what juncture do you determine (before it’s too late) when to actually bail on the purchase and try to get your money back ? Already it’s widely known and talked about amongst insiders that Severe shortages are going to get even worse in 2021, and if these on line firms eat up too much capital or get over leveraged and then their E-Bikes get delayed not 1 or 2 months, but maybe even 4 or 6 months, they could go under before you have a chance to even find out that’s what happened. That would royally stink.
 
JIT was a manufacturing model originally created by Toyota way back in the 80's.
When other manufacturers has divisions producing just motors, another producing hoods, another producing bumpers etc. when one divison broke down there would be dozens of unfinished cars just waiting for 1 division to catch up.
JIT prevented all that from happening.

So JIT really does not refer to retail consumer sales and I doubt sellers are operating that way.
The demand is just higher than the supply right now.
These days JIT becomes JTL. (Just too late)
 
Speaking of coins , there was a guy named Tulving who wiped out a whole bunch of people who bought gold and silver coins from him, back around the time gold last peaked at $1900. The Feds went after him. Not sure what happened in the end, but it wasn’t his first rodeo where he got in trouble. A lot of the online E-Bike firms are gonna go belly up in the end. Just never know when it’s gonna be you, who gets left holding the empty bag. You paid your money and end up with no E-Bikes, and zero recourse, when they suddenly close doors. Even chargebacks won’t save you in those situations. As these critical component delays get worse and worse, due to severe shortages, and yours gets delayed going on months, at what juncture do you determine (before it’s too late) when to actually bail on the purchase and try to get your money back ? Already it’s widely known and talked about amongst insiders that Severe shortages are going to get even worse in 2021, and if these on line firms eat up too much capital or get over leveraged and then their E-Bikes get delayed not 1 or 2 months, but maybe even 4 or 6 months, they could go under before you have a chance to even find out that’s what happened. That would royally stink.

This scenario has occurred to me. I brought it up somewhere on the board. Got no traffic and I'm sure this is due to what you describe, is a chilling situation. It's not really a 'possibility' ... it IS going to happen. To a few poorly organized sellers. People should do their research and do it long and hard. That's the beauty of this site. So many folks and so much information. The herd needs thinning and if we learn to avoid the companies that need to die off ... they'll die sooner.
 
I guess I'm still willing to put a reasonable deposit (200?) down to order a bike, using a credit card, if the situation is right. Yes, careful vetting is in order prior to that for sure! But once that's done, and you're satisfied with the specified wait time, I don't feel like my "gamble" is that significant, and there's no "suckered" sensation to it. Not here anyway. Is this an ideal situation for all? I don't think so. Clearly somebody used to doing their own bike maintenance, with tools and a place to work on it will have an advantage over a first bike, 4th floor apt, no tools, no DIY experience types....
 
I guess I'm still willing to put a reasonable deposit (200?) down to order a bike, using a credit card, if the situation is right. Yes, careful vetting is in order prior to that for sure! But once that's done, and you're satisfied with the specified wait time, I don't feel like my "gamble" is that significant, and there's no "suckered" sensation to it. Not here anyway. Is this an ideal situation for all? I don't think so. Clearly somebody used to doing their own bike maintenance, with tools and a place to work on it will have an advantage over a first bike, 4th floor apt, no tools, no DIY experience types....

I did not want to pay any finance or holding fees so I paid upfront for both of my ebikes. I have to wait about 6 weeks on each. I just ordered a 3rd and again, probably a 6 week wait. It would be nice to see an outfit that will let you put 300-400 down and pay the balance upon delivery or shipment day. But it appears the model is to get money up front or offer a financing option much like my own credit card...
 
I did not want to pay any finance or holding fees so I paid upfront for both of my ebikes. I have to wait about 6 weeks on each. I just ordered a 3rd and again, probably a 6 week wait. It would be nice to see an outfit that will let you put 300-400 down and pay the balance upon delivery or shipment day. But it appears the model is to get money up front or offer a financing option much like my own credit card...
The new Rize (RX Pro) I just bought was 200 to get in line, and full payment just prior to actual shipping date. Bikes had arrived stateside and were on their way to the Rize warehouse when the full payment request was made. I was comfortable with that, and the bike was Fedexed about a week later.

If requested, by a very large dealer/importer (thinking somebody like RAD) I'd give them the full payment to order. Smaller dealer might leave me not so sure!
 
I agree with what you say, but perhaps you missed the COVID variable in 2020, thousands of people still working would have taken trips for their holidays , some exotic and expensive and they were completely shut down, as the staycation began, they had more disposable income and suddenly people were blowing 3K plus on new Ebikes, money that would have gone into vacations this year.
It's one of the reasons the supply chain is low for almost all brands right now.
Retired money will always be there for the retiring boomers with fat pensions.here's more to it than that. The bike delivery business has multiplied and they buy the low end. They are everywhere downtown here, running red lights and riding the busy sidewalks.

I did not want to pay any finance or holding fees so I paid upfront for both of my ebikes. I have to wait about 6 weeks on each. I just ordered a 3rd and again, probably a 6 week wait. It would be nice to see an outfit that will let you put 300-400 down and pay the balance upon delivery or shipment day. But it appears the model is to get money up front or offer a financing option much like my own credit card...
I noticed that the online retailer of my bike now has a finance option through some company I've never heard of until last month or so.
The new Rize (RX Pro) I just bought was 200 to get in line, and full payment just prior to actual shipping date. Bikes had arrived stateside and were on their way to the Rize warehouse when the full payment request was made. I was comfortable with that, and the bike was Fedexed about a week later.

If requested, by a very large dealer/importer (thinking somebody like RAD) I'd give them the full payment to order. Smaller dealer might leave me not so sure!
Yeah, $200 is not going to make or break anyone shopping for an ebike. I did notice the new "instant" financing by "PayBright" - which seems like a bad idea, due to the feedback claiming poor responsiveness as well as messups.
 
The new Rize (RX Pro) I just bought was 200 to get in line, and full payment just prior to actual shipping date. Bikes had arrived stateside and were on their way to the Rize warehouse when the full payment request was made. I was comfortable with that, and the bike was Fedexed about a week later.

If requested, by a very large dealer/importer (thinking somebody like RAD) I'd give them the full payment to order. Smaller dealer might leave me not so sure!

That sounds reasonable. It would probably be pretty tough for most of these Ebike start-ups to just ask for 200-300 down and wait for the balance upon shipping unless they have deep pockets...
 
Full payment on order would not work for me, but 50% and balance on delivery is some thing that I have done many times. Still don't really like it, but especially on commodities like building materials, it is what it is.
 
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