Are we getting suckered by online eBike companys?

[PDoz]

If I happen to go downtown for a ride and stop at Tommy Bahamas for a cocktail, I would be worried the whole time if my Riese and Muller was chained up in the bike rack. I would also probably be hesitant to let others ride it. With the 2 bikes I have ordered so far, Lectric and Sport (to be delivered this month) I wouldn't hesitate to chain em up and enjoy a coconut shrimp. I would even consider letting my adult sons take them for awhile. If they break, I watch the Youtube video and try to fix. If they get stolen, I find a new hobby...

You just confirmed coffee' perspective.

If you owned an IBBB ( insert boutique brand bike), then the sheer joy of riding would encourage trips AWAY from downtown, with no need to hit the bottle or lock the bike up because you'd be out enjoying the ride each day. Oh, and fanaticism takes over...you start giving test tides to everyone silly enough to ask . It's a disease...highly contagious....and if it does get stolen you are hooked - not a hobby, it's an addiction

 

[Taylor57]

You just confirmed coffee' perspective.

If you owned an IBBB ( insert boutique brand bike), then the sheer joy of riding would encourage trips AWAY from downtown, with no need to hit the bottle or lock the bike up because you'd be out enjoying the ride each day. Oh, and fanaticism takes over...you start giving test tides to everyone silly enough to ask . It's a disease...highly contagious....and if it does get stolen you are hooked - not a hobby, it's an addiction

Thanks Pdoz, now you got my pea brain thinkin again...

 

[FlatSix911]

In terms of maintenance Hi-end is definitely better. If your a guy who changes his own oil, has the skills, & enjoys the zen of bike
maintenance, there are bikes that perform well but require TLC. I can buy 4 bikes like mine for the price of a high end bike, but
I do devote a fair amount of time keeping in fine tuned, Itś a Ford, not a Porsche.

That reminds me of one of my favorite books... Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Amazon.com

One of the most important and influential books written in the past half-century, Robert M. Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is powerful, moving, and penetrating examination of how we live . . . and a breathtaking meditation on how to live better. Here is the book that transformed a generation: an unforgettable narration of a summer motorcycle trip across America's Northwest, undertaken by a father and his young son. A story of love and fear -- of growth, discovery, and acceptance -- that becomes a profound personal and philosophical odyssey into life's fundamental questions, this uniquely exhilarating modern classic is both touching and transcendent, resonant with the myriad confusions of existence . . . and the small, essential triumphs that propel us forward.

 

[FlatSix911]

On components, I do kind of agree with you. Especially the very high-end group sets are often overpriced and primarily designed for racing and not actual day-in day-out use. On the other hand, there is no question in my mind that having nice wheels makes a huge difference in how much you'll enjoy riding your bike, and unless you are just going crazy you likely won't regret the extra ducats you spend on those spiffy wheels.

Full disclosure: I am in the midst of my fifth brake upgrade, with the front brake going full-on Shimano Deore XTR and 203mm Ice-Tec Rotors front and rear. There seems to be a cycle going on: I upgrade the brakes, get more confident and go faster on the downhills, then discover the limits of the gear and want to upgrade. I am running out of room on that cycle so I don't know what will come next...

Full disclosure: My bike does not sit in the garage and collect dust. I ride my bike every day and collect dust honestly on jeep roads and cow paths.

I agree with you on the cycle of upgrading to the best brakes possible... money well spent that has saved my A$$ a number of times.

 

[BigNerd]

On the CC 3% charge maybe I can clear up some confusion.

Most merchant accounts charge a % fee on a CC purchase from a store. It’s not extra that the customer buys, it’s part of the cost that the store bears.

So on a $1500 purchase, R1U pays $45 to their merchant service. If you cancel, they are out that money unless they net that out of the refund.

Ideally, they shouldn’t charge your CC until they ship but then there goes the business model of being able to float your money. That’s why places like Sondors and others are doing the $299 down which still gives them upfront funds, but not putting the customer out of $1k or more for a few months.

I’m still wondering what the profit margins are for these cheaper bikes since according to Kevin from R1U, his revenue is over a million last year and will probably be over $3m this year.

 

[Art Deco]

That reminds me of one of my favorite books... Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Amazon.com

One of the most important and influential books written in the past half-century, Robert M. Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is powerful, moving, and penetrating examination of how we live . . . and a breathtaking meditation on how to live better. Here is the book that transformed a generation: an unforgettable narration of a summer motorcycle trip across America's Northwest, undertaken by a father and his young son. A story of love and fear -- of growth, discovery, and acceptance -- that becomes a profound personal and philosophical odyssey into life's fundamental questions, this uniquely exhilarating modern classic is both touching and transcendent, resonant with the myriad confusions of existence . . . and the small, essential triumphs that propel us forward.

Read it several times through. My poor old paperback copy is falling apart...

 

[BlackHand]

I would agree that open ended is unreasonable. It should be stated up front, for example up to 30 or 60 days beyond original estimate, after which the customer gets a full refund. To have it open ended, for example 60 or 90 days late and still charge a cancellation fee would probably be deemed an unfair contract.

Agreed, but R1Up doesn't exactly hide the charge:

Pre-orders are charged at the time of ordering. The product will be listed “On Back Order" or "Out of Stock". While we understand it is frustrating to wait for a product you are excited about, we will make your order a priority, and we do promise to deliver within a 3-month time frame, unless otherwise specified as sooner. You can contact us at any time before your order is shipped for a refund. Refunds before shipping will be subject to a 3% payment processing charge (this is a charge we do not get back).

 

[Duck and Cover]

edit: Unnecessary response to something already answered.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

If I happen to go downtown for a ride and stop at Tommy Bahamas for a cocktail, ...

Who in their right mind goes to a bar these days?

 

[Asher]

Agreed, but R1Up doesn't exactly hide the charge:

Pre-orders are charged at the time of ordering. The product will be listed “On Back Order" or "Out of Stock". While we understand it is frustrating to wait for a product you are excited about, we will make your order a priority, and we do promise to deliver within a 3-month time frame, unless otherwise specified as sooner. You can contact us at any time before your order is shipped for a refund. Refunds before shipping will be subject to a 3% payment processing charge (this is a charge we do not get back).

Ok I retract my criticism and apparently it depends on the agreement the merchant has with it's payment.

Ride1Up didn't do anything wrong given that it's upfront about everything and you didn't say a delay occurred after you placed the order, in your OP. You're frustrated about the $45 but that's your real problem, not JIT operations.

You pay for convenience and save for the lack of it. R is doing the latter to keep prices low. If you want a more premium experience, there's the LBS (though they too are out of stock probably...)

 

[tlippy]

Ok I retract my criticism and apparently it depends on the agreement the merchant has with it's payment.

Ride1Up didn't do anything wrong given that it's upfront about everything and you didn't say a delay occurred after you placed the order, in your OP. You're frustrated about the $45 but that's your real problem, not JIT operations.

You pay for convenience and save for the lack of it. R is doing the latter to keep prices low. If you want a more premium experience, there's the LBS (though they too are out of stock probably...)

Never did I complain, in fact I believe I said that I agreed with R1U 's business model. I just thought it interesting. I had never heard of this before.

 

[TomD]

Agreed, but R1Up doesn't exactly hide the charge:

Pre-orders are charged at the time of ordering. The product will be listed “On Back Order" or "Out of Stock". While we understand it is frustrating to wait for a product you are excited about, we will make your order a priority, and we do promise to deliver within a 3-month time frame, unless otherwise specified as sooner. You can contact us at any time before your order is shipped for a refund. Refunds before shipping will be subject to a 3% payment processing charge (this is a charge we do not get back).

Correct, they don't hide it. But one might argue 90 days amounts to an unfairly lopsided contract which may not be enforceable, even if one party technically agrees to it.

 

[BET]

In most contracts time is not considered "of essence" unless so specified in the contract. Indeed R1Up tells you that delays beyond 90 days, while unusual, are possible. A contract is a meeting of the minds where essential terms are specified. You cannot get out of it later because you don't like the terms. There is no "lopsidedness" here. Again, if you do not like the terms you are free to do business with someone else. There are many bike companies.

 

[BigNerd]

Just read that Lectric did $14m in sales last year... that's pretty good for just one bike in their lineup.

R1U interviews seem to indicate that Kevin has done well and will do better this year.

Are the margins/revenue high enough to support this D2C model?

 

[antboy]

That reminds me of one of my favorite books... Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Amazon.com

One of the most important and influential books written in the past half-century, Robert M. Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is powerful, moving, and penetrating examination of how we live . . . and a breathtaking meditation on how to live better. Here is the book that transformed a generation: an unforgettable narration of a summer motorcycle trip across America's Northwest, undertaken by a father and his young son. A story of love and fear -- of growth, discovery, and acceptance -- that becomes a profound personal and philosophical odyssey into life's fundamental questions, this uniquely exhilarating modern classic is both touching and transcendent, resonant with the myriad confusions of existence . . . and the small, essential triumphs that propel us forward.

Been meaning to re-read that again. LOVE that book.

 

[antboy]

Looks like a new business model is emerging-and we are bringing it upon ourselves! JIT. Means JUST IN TIME. In out quest to always buy the cheapest the online guys are accommodating our desire...
Going in I knew the risks. I'm willing to take them to get something I want for a fair price.
Are you?

I'm not willing to take that particular risk.

I get what you're saying. There's a fine line though...

Unlike a Kickstarter/Indiegogo "launch", something like the 700 series from R1U is an established enough product that the company will definitely be ordering more than just pre-order sales of said bike.

You as a consumer have the option of waiting until it's in stock to order. This is especially true for a high ticket item (meaning something more than a couple of hundred bucks).

This is the fine line I prefer to stay on one side of, and what I did for both my online e-bike purchases, even though the new one (in transit now) was from a company that's been around for about 15 years and has a brick and mortar shop. I made the effort to call right before hitting the payment button to make sure the website info was up to date.

I prefer that peace of mind over the minimal savings, but that's just me.

 

[tlippy]

This purchase has required much effort on my part. I enjoyed it - especially the advice from this board. I did consider waiting but was concerned they'd sell all their Sept 15th incomming. I'm headed to Yuma in Oct and want to take this bike with me. R1U offered to ship it to Yuma but I bought a hitch ramp from harbor freight for less $$ than Yuma sales tax. No buyers remorse on the purchase. Just anxiously awaiting.

 

[Handlebars]

In terms of maintenance Hi-end is definitely better. If your a guy who changes his own oil, has the skills, & enjoys the zen of bike
maintenance, there are bikes that perform well but require TLC. I can buy 4 bikes like mine for the price of a high end bike, but
I do devote a fair amount of time keeping in fine tuned, Itś a Ford, not a Porsche.

Where's our Scotty Kilmer of ebikes? He lampoons the overly-complicated German autos that have monstrous upkeep costs after a couple of years or a few ten thousands of miles​

 

[Handlebars]

If you look at the forums, there are multiple threads where people post photos of where they ride their e-bikes. What I see is a lot of people with pretty nice e-bikes riding great rides and living the dream. I see far fewer people with cheap no-name e-bikes riding great rides and living the dream.

But the missing parts of your calculus tell a tale as well... that people who own higher end bikes here are often retired and also can afford $300 sunglasses to extra batteries and solar systems, trailers that cost half as much as a cheaper ebike, backpacks and tents that cost more than the other guy makes in a week, can afford hotels along the way when necessary, a nice truck at home to come pick up the bike, and so on.
AND their homes and cottages are in areas where scenic routes are close, and for them, air travel with bikes is also taken as a "given" possibility.

These are not uber eats delivery guys.

 

[FlatSix911]

But the missing parts of your calculus tell a tale as well... that people who own higher end bikes here are often retired and also can afford $300 sunglasses to extra batteries and solar systems, trailers that cost half as much as a cheaper ebike, backpacks and tents that cost more than the other guy makes in a week, can afford hotels along the way when necessary, a nice truck at home to come pick up the bike, and so on.
AND their homes and cottages are in areas where scenic routes are close, and for them, air travel with bikes is also taken as a "given" possibility.

These are not uber eats delivery guys.

I think you might be onto something here... lots of retired guys and gals on EBR forums.
I'm not there yet but enjoy working and traveling with my bikes to scenic locations