Making use of Vado SL rider power data

[Jeremy McCreary]

Down to 2 pages on the TCU on my new Vado SL 5.0: (1) the start-up page with ground speed and remaining charge, and (2) this custom rider power/cadence page. Flip back and forth between them, but I'm usually looking at this:

Never saw my own power before, and frankly I'm getting kind of obsessed with it. The real-time rider power display definitely prods me to work harder.

After finishing a ride in the Specialized app, I also get this rider power summary (from yesterday's undulating coast ride, mostly in ECO or OFF):

Have a pretty good understanding of cycling resistances and rider power on a scientific level, and I've read a ton on rider power monitoring in training. But have no practical experience with this kind of data on myself.

Q1. How do YOU do make use of such data in your own riding (any bike)?

Q2. Have you used the Specialized app to estimate your own FTP? Any tricks?

No plans for a formal training regimen, just looking to boost fitness bit by bit without killing the fun of riding this wonderful bike.

Thanks!

 

[Twowheelxtc]

If you have a Garmin connected to your bike it will use bike transmitted power and heart rate data (from a chest strap or watch) to give an estimate of vo2 max. I find that’s a really useful way to monitor cardio fitness. Even if it’s not entirely accurate (we’d need a sport lab for that) it’s a good way to see which way you’re fitness is heading and I find the results are pretty consistent.

 

[mschwett]

a topic near and dear to my heart!

my interest in rider power started with my creo a few years back, and i began tracking it somewhat obsessively to understand exactly how much work my (genetically disadvantaged) heart was doing. heart rate is not a particularly reliable indicator of this, and perceived effort is even worse. if you ride the same route many times, or the same segments many times, looking at heart rate, power, and time give you a pretty complete picture of how hard you're working, what you're capable of, and how environmental factors and equipment choices are impacting the ride.

for example, if you're at the same heart rate, power, and equipment, but slower, you know that it's wind. if you're at the same power, equipment, and speed, but a much higher heart rate, you may have had too much caffeine, you may be dehydrated, stressed, your body may be reacting to a virus, or maybe you've got another health issue.

it's VERY interesting to hold power and heart rate steady (this is why having the app on your bars or the readout on the mastermind is great!) on a loop route (which neutralizes wind) while making minor equipment or position changes on the bike. on a drop bar bike you can see immediately the impact of riding on the drops vs the bar tops. you'll be able to tell how 30psi and 50psi vary, or whether baggy pants and a baggy sweatshirt really slow you down. (yes!)

now, getting into some more nitty gritty... the adjusted figure is not super useful if you have lots of starts and stops in your ride. i prefer to minimize those, keep my efforts very steady (better for the heart anyway) and those two numbers start to get very close. different apps also use different methods for "adjusted" or "normalized" power. i much prefer to track the "strongest hour" of my rides over time, knowing that most rides will have a one hour period where i'm riding steadily, fairly hard, and looking at the average heart rate for that period :

the rides in the red, where power is low and heart rate high don't fit on the curve. that's because they're all after a major health issue, and it's clearly taking a much higher heart rate to produce the same amount of power.

if you're really interested in power, i'd strongly recommend uploading your rides to strava, where a lot of great information can be seen. in particular the "best effort" part which gives you the average power for the strongest XX minutes of the ride. what i take from your particular ride example or data is that you're putting out solid power for your ride, with lots of starts and stops or coasting (i never coast hahah), but you aren't exerting yourself hard at any time. someone who can average 120w and (presumably) is around 175-200lb can probably put down 750w for a short period. your knees may or may not allow that, but it really helps overall cycling to get out of the saddle and absolutely HAMMER it when you can, especially on an SL

and finally, as a note, the SL motor power numbers are not super accurate. they're ballpark, and consistent if you're using the same amount of assist, but they shouldn't be compared too closely to numbers from a traditional power meter. they are influenced quite a bit by how much work the motor is doing, maybe by temperature or other factors.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

If you have a Garmin connected to your bike it will use bike transmitted power and heart rate data (from a chest strap or watch) to give an estimate of vo2 max. I find that’s a really useful way to monitor cardio fitness. Even if it’s not entirely accurate (we’d need a sport lab for that) it’s a good way to see which way you’re fitness is heading and I find the results are pretty consistent.

Thanks! I've read that VO2max is the best single fitness number to track and may well end up with a heart rate strap that the Specialized app can link to. (No plans for a separate bike computer.)

For now, however, the goal is to get what I can out the rider power data newly available to me. At 76, I do better with one completely new thing at a time.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

a topic near and dear to my heart!

my interest in rider power started with my creo a few years back, and i began tracking it somewhat obsessively to understand exactly how much work my (genetically disadvantaged) heart was doing. heart rate is not a particularly reliable indicator of this, and perceived effort is even worse. if you ride the same route many times, or the same segments many times, looking at heart rate, power, and time give you a pretty complete picture of how hard you're working, what you're capable of, and how environmental factors and equipment choices are impacting the ride.

for example, if you're at the same heart rate, power, and equipment, but slower, you know that it's wind. if you're at the same power, equipment, and speed, but a much higher heart rate, you may have had too much caffeine, you may be dehydrated, stressed, your body may be reacting to a virus, or maybe you've got another health issue.

it's VERY interesting to hold power and heart rate steady (this is why having the app on your bars or the readout on the mastermind is great!) on a loop route (which neutralizes wind) while making minor equipment or position changes on the bike. on a drop bar bike you can see immediately the impact of riding on the drops vs the bar tops. you'll be able to tell how 30psi and 50psi vary, or whether baggy pants and a baggy sweatshirt really slow you down. (yes!)

now, getting into some more nitty gritty... the adjusted figure is not super useful if you have lots of starts and stops in your ride. i prefer to minimize those, keep my efforts very steady (better for the heart anyway) and those two numbers start to get very close. different apps also use different methods for "adjusted" or "normalized" power. i much prefer to track the "strongest hour" of my rides over time, knowing that most rides will have a one hour period where i'm riding steadily, fairly hard, and looking at the average heart rate for that period :

View attachment 182629

the rides in the red, where power is low and heart rate high don't fit on the curve. that's because they're all after a major health issue, and it's clearly taking a much higher heart rate to produce the same amount of power.

if you're really interested in power, i'd strongly recommend uploading your rides to strava, where a lot of great information can be seen. in particular the "best effort" part which gives you the average power for the strongest XX minutes of the ride. what i take from your particular ride example or data is that you're putting out solid power for your ride, with lots of starts and stops or coasting (i never coast hahah), but you aren't exerting yourself hard at any time. someone who can average 120w and (presumably) is around 175-200lb can probably put down 750w for a short period. your knees may or may not allow that, but it really helps overall cycling to get out of the saddle and absolutely HAMMER it when you can, especially on an SL

and finally, as a note, the SL motor power numbers are not super accurate. they're ballpark, and consistent if you're using the same amount of assist, but they shouldn't be compared too closely to numbers from a traditional power meter. they are influenced quite a bit by how much work the motor is doing, maybe by temperature or other factors.

Thanks! Much to digest here.

You're right, I do stop a lot — besides all the traffic signals in this largely suburban area, pretty much every roadside beach and inland vista point. Still haven't gotten over the physical beauty of this place, and that's a major reason I ride.

You're also right that I work but generally don't kill myself. Interestingly, the SL's already making me WANT to work more — as evidenced by the uptick in questions from the wife about when I last showered.
;^}

It's not that I HAVE TO work more on the SL — to my great surprise, just the opposite. It's just so much more rewarding on the SL. I expect that trend to continue. Also higher water bills.

 

[mschwett]

Thanks! Much to digest here.

You're right, I do stop a lot — besides all the traffic signals in this largely suburban area, pretty much every roadside beach and inland vista point. Still haven't gotten over the physical beauty of this place, and that's a major reason I ride.

You're also right that I work but generally don't kill myself. Interestingly, the SL's already making me WANT to work more — as evidenced by the uptick in questions from the wife about when I last showered.
;^}

It's not that I HAVE TO work more on the SL — to my great surprise, just the opposite. It's just so much more rewarding on the SL. I expect that trend to continue. Also higher water bills.

having the rider power displayed on the bike also is a huge motivator to work harder - there's a lot of data supporting the fact that simply measuring performance improves it, especially when it's visible in real time. i leave "average power" on the display of whatever app or display i'm using at all times, and generally have a target in mind which guides me to ride harder, or continue the level of exertion, or these days pull back if i'm trending towards burning too many candles.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

having the rider power displayed on the bike also is a huge motivator to work harder - there's a lot of data supporting the fact that simply measuring performance improves it, especially when it's visible in real time. i leave "average power" on the display of whatever app or display i'm using at all times, and generally have a target in mind which guides me to ride harder, or continue the level of exertion, or these days pull back if i'm trending towards burning too many candles.

Exactly what I've been experiencing. Fun and illuminating and motivating at the same time.

Earlier you mentioned "normalized" rider power — as I understand it, an averaging method designed to better deal with variations in rider output. From the app's description, Specialized's "adjusted" power sounds like much the same thing. Correct?

 

[mschwett]

Exactly what I've been experiencing. Fun and illuminating at the same time.

Earlier you mentioned "normalized" rider power — as I understand it, an averaging method designed to better deal with variations in rider output. From the app's description, Specialized's "adjusted" power sounds like much the same thing. Correct?

it is, but it’s important to note that it’s averaging variation, and generally doing so non-linearly. it’s a good estimate of what you could have done for the same total effort if you were just riding completely steadily.

you’ll probably notice that if you’re cruising along at 125w, and then decide to go nuts for one minute at 500w, that after the big burst you’ll no longer be happy at 125w. the actual mathematical average may end up lower than 125w because of the recovery period - but that doesn’t mean you couldn’t have just sustained the 125w for the same apparent effort. normalized power takes this into account, as well as the outsized effect on averaging of stopping and being at zero watts for a few minutes. again, you’d have to ride much harder than the baseline to make up for that, even if you could have just happily cruised along at 125w.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

a topic near and dear to my heart!

my interest in rider power started with my creo a few years back, and i began tracking it somewhat obsessively to understand exactly how much work my (genetically disadvantaged) heart was doing. heart rate is not a particularly reliable indicator of this, and perceived effort is even worse. if you ride the same route many times, or the same segments many times, looking at heart rate, power, and time give you a pretty complete picture of how hard you're working, what you're capable of, and how environmental factors and equipment choices are impacting the ride.

for example, if you're at the same heart rate, power, and equipment, but slower, you know that it's wind. if you're at the same power, equipment, and speed, but a much higher heart rate, you may have had too much caffeine, you may be dehydrated, stressed, your body may be reacting to a virus, or maybe you've got another health issue.

it's VERY interesting to hold power and heart rate steady (this is why having the app on your bars or the readout on the mastermind is great!) on a loop route (which neutralizes wind) while making minor equipment or position changes on the bike. on a drop bar bike you can see immediately the impact of riding on the drops vs the bar tops. you'll be able to tell how 30psi and 50psi vary, or whether baggy pants and a baggy sweatshirt really slow you down. (yes!)

now, getting into some more nitty gritty... the adjusted figure is not super useful if you have lots of starts and stops in your ride. i prefer to minimize those, keep my efforts very steady (better for the heart anyway) and those two numbers start to get very close. different apps also use different methods for "adjusted" or "normalized" power. i much prefer to track the "strongest hour" of my rides over time, knowing that most rides will have a one hour period where i'm riding steadily, fairly hard, and looking at the average heart rate for that period :

View attachment 182629

the rides in the red, where power is low and heart rate high don't fit on the curve. that's because they're all after a major health issue, and it's clearly taking a much higher heart rate to produce the same amount of power.

if you're really interested in power, i'd strongly recommend uploading your rides to strava, where a lot of great information can be seen. in particular the "best effort" part which gives you the average power for the strongest XX minutes of the ride. what i take from your particular ride example or data is that you're putting out solid power for your ride, with lots of starts and stops or coasting (i never coast hahah), but you aren't exerting yourself hard at any time. someone who can average 120w and (presumably) is around 175-200lb can probably put down 750w for a short period. your knees may or may not allow that, but it really helps overall cycling to get out of the saddle and absolutely HAMMER it when you can, especially on an SL

and finally, as a note, the SL motor power numbers are not super accurate. they're ballpark, and consistent if you're using the same amount of assist, but they shouldn't be compared too closely to numbers from a traditional power meter. they are influenced quite a bit by how much work the motor is doing, maybe by temperature or other factors.

Still processing this excellent reply, but want to acknowledge that it's exactly what I'm after — a deeper understanding of the rider power data Specialized's made available through the TCU and app.