WOW! Rough ride ahead! All "Terms of Use" are modified

[GuruUno]

Got an e-mail today from Specialized informing me that "We’ve updated our Terms of Use", backdated to April 16, 2024.

We want to let you know that we are updating our Terms of Use. This update will take effect on April 16, 2024.
We have incorporated certain elements of our Terms & Conditions into our Terms of Use in order to simplify and optimize your user experience. On and after April 16, 2024, the existing Terms & Conditions will no longer apply.

Read it here:
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/terms-of-use

May all be nothing, but it's rather interesting, may mean nothing to some, but a lot more to others.
Just sharing.

 

[mschwett]

anyone remember if the no-class individual arbitration clause was in there before, and the age of majority thing?

 

[GuruUno]

anyone remember if the no-class individual arbitration clause was in there before, and the age of majority thing?

Well, here are 3 previous 'Terms of Use' from the "Wayback Machine:
(Feb 2023) https://web.archive.org/web/20230207235545/https://www.specialized.com/ar/en/terms-of-use
(October 2022) https://web.archive.org/web/20221001073055/https://www.specialized.com/ar/en/terms-of-use
(August 2020) https://web.archive.org/web/20200805133212/https://www.specialized.com/ar/en/terms-of-use
As far as I can digest, this is the 1st time they put the arbitration clause in. Hmmmmmmm

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The Terms of Use have been changed to protect Specialized against GuruUno's class-action lawsuit
(Forgive me please, Bob!)

 

[GuruUno]

The Terms of Use have been changed to protect Specialized against GuruUno's class-action lawsuit
(Forgive me please, Bob!)

Ha, Ha, Ha! Look, I'm happy, zero issues, it took a while but they ultimately got it "right" for me anyway. Just like ANY other product, there are problems, issues, recalls, bankruptcies, etc., and me, me thinks that the ground work is being set for potential changes coming down the road and Specialized, just like a lot of other brands are bracing for the forthcoming "cleansing" of the industry. Additionally, possibilities could also be because of increased complaints, uresolvable issues and then, in finality, the terms are pretty much similar in almost anything you purchase today and it took them this long to catch up. Who knows. It could very well have to do so they don't have to replace Stefans bike....again!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It could very well have to do so they don't have to replace Stefans bike....again!

They actually rebuilt and upgraded that e-bike

 

[gpburdell]

Seems like a nothing burger. What exactly am I missing?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

"Mobile apps"

 

[GuruUno]

Seems like a nothing burger. What exactly am I missing?

View attachment 174403

I am not a lawer, but if you were to compare word for word from past to present, things have changed. More specifically:
"These Terms contain a mandatory individual arbitration provision and class action waiver. This requires you to use arbitration on an individual basis to resolve disputes, rather than class actions. By accepting these Terms, you expressly agree to be bound by and abide by these Terms, including the mandatory individual arbitration provision and the class action waiver provision."

There is more, but a legal expert would need to summarize.

 

[gpburdell]

I am not a lawer, but if you were to compare word for word from past to present, things have changed. More specifically:
"These Terms contain a mandatory individual arbitration provision and class action waiver. This requires you to use arbitration on an individual basis to resolve disputes, rather than class actions. By accepting these Terms, you expressly agree to be bound by and abide by these Terms, including the mandatory individual arbitration provision and the class action waiver provision."

There is more, but a legal expert would need to summarize.

While I’m not a lawyer, I have a good familiarity with contract law. Yes they specify that if you use the website or app you agree to arbitration for disputes. Meh. The only ones who benefit from class action lawsuits are the lawyers.

So what do you feel is the real world impact that justifies your inflammatory / clickbait thread title?

What is the “rough ride ahead” you claim exists?

 

[GuruUno]

While I’m not a lawyer, I have a good familiarity with contract law. Yes they specify that if you use the website or app you agree to arbitration for disputes. Meh. The only ones who benefit from class action lawsuits are the lawyers.

So what do you feel is the real world impact that justifies your inflammatory / clickbait thread title?

What is the “rough ride ahead” you claim exists?

Diminished support, potential end of the company if legal issues, budgets, etc., take their toll. The entire bike industry is in a doldrum, so they are making sure they can survive if the tables turn. Again, my opinion, much like BYD influencing the EV industry, auto manufacturers are headed to the sxit canners, as well as the semiconductor manufacturing industry. Lots of other examples. The new world. But staying in context of the e-bike industry, lots of price reductions, new battery chemistry forthcoming, and a lot of "old" inventory. But lots of people don't want to pay $3k, $5k, $12k for e-bikes, and the hey-day is over, competition may make Specialized extinct in a year or 2. Especially being headed by a Dyson ex-executive, that knows maybe nothing about the industry. Again, not wanting to start a plethora of disputes, arguments, etc., these are MY opinions. So, for all intents and purposes, please bookmark this thread and revisit it in about 2-3 years and let me know how my crystal ball worked out.

 

[gpburdell]

Diminished support, potential end of the company if legal issues, budgets, etc., take their toll. The entire bike industry is in a doldrum, so they are making sure they can survive if the tables turn. Again, my opinion, much like BYD influencing the EV industry, auto manufacturers are headed to the sxit canners, as well as the semiconductor manufacturing industry. Lots of other examples. The new world. But staying in context of the e-bike industry, lots of price reductions, new battery chemistry forthcoming, and a lot of "old" inventory. But lots of people don't want to pay $3k, $5k, $12k for e-bikes, and the hey-day is over, competition may make Specialized extinct in a year or 2. Especially being headed by a Dyson ex-executive, that knows maybe nothing about the industry. Again, not wanting to start a plethora of disputes, arguments, etc., these are MY opinions. So, for all intents and purposes, please bookmark this thread and revisit it in about 2-3 years and let me know how my crystal ball worked out.

Exactly the likely point of this change - the company is aiming to protect itself from exorbitant legal fees or judgements from a frivolous class action suit.

Seems like a good thing from the point of view of “making sure they can survive“

So I’m still confused as to the point of your thread. This implications of the thread title don‘t align with your reply in post #11.

 

[GuruUno]

Exactly the likely point of this change - the company is aiming to protect itself from exorbitant legal fees or judgements from a frivolous class action suit.

Seems like a good thing from the point of view of “making sure they can survive“

So I’m still confused as to the point of your thread. This implications of the thread title don‘t align with your reply in post #11.

Without getting into a tizzy of a disagreement, I'll just say the intent is to make those aware who own their product may not have the level of support and longevity by the company, because their days may be numbered, and/or things may get more difficult to resolve. Again, my opinion.

 

[mschwett]

Without getting into a tizzy of a disagreement, I'll just say the intent is to make those aware who own their product may not have the level of support and longevity by the company, because their days may be numbered, and/or things may get more difficult to resolve. Again, my opinion.

Specialized has been around 50 years, through a couple other huge ups and down. while i agree the bike industry is in for rough times they’re reasonably well positioned.

Dyson has been fairly successful, and there are certainly similarities. somewhat high end targeted consumer products with moving parts that are made in Asia and rely on design cachet…

 

[BlackHand]

Seems like a nothing burger. What exactly am I missing?

View attachment 174403

You missed the part where it also applies to any product or service you purchase from Specialized. And the part where Spec absolves itself of responsibility for any loss or damage as soon as product leaves their warehouse.

Unless otherwise required by local law, title and all risk of loss or damage to the Products shall pass to you, or a designated recipient, when the Product is picked up at Specialized’s warehouse by the designated shipping carrier.

And the usual stuff about zero liability for any direct or indirect damages. Mostly non enforceable I would assume but a PITA if Spec tries to enforce the T&C on you.

You can bet your ass if I were to buy a bike from Spec online that I would be sending them an opt out letter asap.

 

[GuruUno]

You missed the part where it also applies to any product or service you purchase from Specialized. And the part where Spec absolves itself of responsibility for any loss or damage as soon as product leaves their warehouse.

Unless otherwise required by local law, title and all risk of loss or damage to the Products shall pass to you, or a designated recipient, when the Product is picked up at Specialized’s warehouse by the designated shipping carrier.

And the usual stuff about zero liability for any direct or indirect damages. Mostly non enforceable I would assume but a PITA if Spec tries to enforce the T&C on you.

You can bet your ass if I were to buy a bike from Spec online that I would be sending them an opt out letter asap.

Much appreciate the clarification and discovery of those terms....like I said, not a lawyer, but things are for sure going to change, and it's not going to be as it has been in the past. Having had extremely difficult past experiences to resolve multiple issues, I can say it was an uphill battle, but in the very end the savior was a top notch local bike shop manager who "gets it" and assisted to the 'umpth' degree. Without his help, I'd most likely still be in litigation, or maybe even almost be forced to go back to Trek

 

[gpburdell]

Specialized has been around 50 years, through a couple other huge ups and down. while i agree the bike industry is in for rough times they’re reasonably well positioned.

Dyson has been fairly successful, and there are certainly similarities. somewhat high end targeted consumer products with moving parts that are made in Asia and rely on design cachet…

I'm not so sure - global bicycle market projected CAGR is >6%, with overall revenues doubling between now and 2032.

Bicycle Market Size & Share, Growth Analysis | 2023-2032

The bicycle market size crossed USD 57.8 billion in 2022 and is projected to grow at over 6% CAGR from 2023 to 2032, driven by the increasing awareness of health and fitness.

www.gminsights.com

You missed the part where it also applies to any product or service you purchase from Specialized. And the part where Spec absolves itself of responsibility for any loss or damage as soon as product leaves their warehouse.

Unless otherwise required by local law, title and all risk of loss or damage to the Products shall pass to you, or a designated recipient, when the Product is picked up at Specialized’s warehouse by the designated shipping carrier.

I don't believe that's changed in the way you think it's changed; have a look at UCC § 2-509 - the implication being that in a shipment contract - which is the understood default - liability transfers when shipped.

Anyway if you're that concerned then just do what we all should be doing - place your orders via your LBS.