Turbo Vado SL questions

[Capt Amazing]

Hello! Hoping there are some Turbo Vado (or other ebike) owners who can give me some advice. I'm a long time (45 years) road cyclist, looking to buy my first Ebike. Age (70) and arthritis have caught up with me, and the long steep climb up to my house which used to be a challenge is now an ordeal. I'm looking for an Ebike to help me get up (and down) that hill and I think the turbo vado SL 5.0 would do the trick. I like its relatively light weight (my Cervelo road bike is 15.8 lbs), its long range (I usually ride my analog bike 30-60 miles) and the fact that it provides assistance while still allowing the rider to do most (or even all) of the work since I'm still in pretty good shape. I'll still ride the Cervelo (cause I love it) and the ebike will sort of be my "commuter" (though I am retired) so I can tour around our beautiful area in walking shoes and still get back up to my house. Mostly pavement with a few non-extreme gravel/dirt roads.
So my questions are:
1. Most of the Turbo vado comments have been pretty positive, but any thoughts on other Ebikes which would fit my needs?
2. Re: the Turbo Vado SL 5.0, I would likely want to change the seatpost and saddle. It looks like the non-EQ version is wired through the seatpost for a saddle tail light. Will that prevent the seatpost-saddle swap? The EQ version has the tail light on the fender/rack. Are the fenders removable?
3. What do uou think about the stock tires (Specialized Nimbus I think)? Anyone change those out for tubeless tires?

Sorry for the long post. Those Vado SL's are pretty pricey and I want to make sure I get it right. Thanks. CA

 

[RTeremi]

local bike shop where you can test, is the best answer. The turbo Vado is a hill eraser; it’s so smooth.

 

[Capt Amazing]

Good to know, Thanks. LBS doesn't currently have any SL 5's in my size in stock, but I've ridden a creo which was really nice, though not what I'm looking for.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The non-EQ version makes it hard to replace the seat-post and saddle.
The EQ version allows removing the front fender but removing the rear one is impractical.
You can successfully install tubeless tires, such as Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss.

 

[Nubnub]

1. Most of the Turbo vado comments have been pretty positive, but any thoughts on other Ebikes which would fit my needs?
2. Re: the Turbo Vado SL 5.0, I would likely want to change the seatpost and saddle. It looks like the non-EQ version is wired through the seatpost for a saddle tail light. Will that prevent the seatpost-saddle swap? The EQ version has the tail light on the fender/rack. Are the fenders removable?
3. What do uou think about the stock tires (Specialized Nimbus I think)? Anyone change those out for tubeless tires?

Since you already have a road bike I'm not sure why you'd prefer the Vado SL vs a Creo -esp the updated Creos with the stronger 1.2 motor - you can always adjust assist levels downward if the Creo was more powerful than you need. Having said that, the Vado SL was my first ebike and I've been happy with it.

1. I am looking at a Santa Cruz Skitch flat bar to replace my nearly 4 year old 4.0SL EQ. Is is lighter carbon frame and has a stronger motor/bigger battery. It does not have lights or fenders but there are plenty of 3rd party add ons that would work well. The base flat bar is "only" $1k more than a 5.0 SL EQ. Add a bit more for fenders/lights. However it is possible that you can also get an SL at a significant discount - so factor that in as well.
2. Some have modified the swapped seatpost to reroute the taillight wire, same with the rear fenders. Not all seatposts can be modified tho. It is easy enough to disconnect the light power at the top tube connecto and just remove the stock light and replace with a 3rd party light of your choice. Fenders are easily removable assumming you have a way to deal with the tail light wire. Unlikely to be easily removable/replaceable unless you connectorize the tailight wiring.
3. Stock tires were just ok. I replaced with 38mm Pathfinder Pros tubeless. Good enough that I replaced with the same tires when the first set wore out.

 

[Capt Amazing]

Thanks for your replies Stefan and Nub.

I took a quick look at that Skitch flat bar. Wow, Nice! - Maybe too nice for me!

I'm not looking to replace my road bikes. I'd like something I can ride up and down our hill into town (traffic) to run errands, get coffee, visit the grandkids (who live 15 miles away), etc. without donning my cycling clothes and shoes and coming home exhausted and sweaty from the climb. So it's actually going to replace my car more than my road bikes.
Definitely going to check out that Skitch - thanks for mentioning it.

CA

 

[Nubnub]

Trek also has a couple of more budget friendly e-bikes that might suit your needs as well as possibly being a good intro to ebikes. As I recall, there was some discussion here when they first came out with a comment that the pedal assist did not kick in as smoothly as the Vado SL. But if you have a good LBS Trek dealer a test ride should tell if it is ok for you. The only ebike the LBS had when I was first looking was a full power VAdo (4.0) I think. I commented at the time it seems it had too much power so I ordered an SL sight unseen. If you've been riding exclusively on regular bikes I think any ebike will seem it has sufficient power. Of course once I had the ebike I tended to ride longer and further than I would have on my other bikes and also wanted to venture off road a bit - so I ended up with a full power Tero as well. And now I want a Skitch-not as powerful as the Tero but handles better due to the lower weight.

 

[Capt Amazing]

Lots of Trek dealers here, so I'll probably test ride them if it ever stops raining and snowing. Online though it looks like they're heavier and lower quality than the Vado (as evidenced by the price), and not as good a ride without the e-assist (correct me if I'm wrong). Looking for a high quality bike that can climb and descend our very challenging hill (1000 ft vertical drop) and feel stable at high speed. I'd also like to pedal unassisted on the flats, and the Vado sounds like it's good at that. And I'm seriously looking at the Skitch. The local shops don't seem to have them now but I'll keep an eye out.

 

[mschwett]

vado sl seems like a good fit for your use case! it’s likely there will be a new version soon with the new motor, like the new creo, so you may want to either 1) wait or 2) try for a really good deal!

 

[rochrunner]

The non-EQ version makes it hard to replace the seat-post and saddle.

It's actually quite easy if you don't mind losing the light. Just pull the wires up out of the downtube, disconnect, tape them up, and it's done. I use a Garmin Varia radar taillight, which IMO is functionally superior to the one that comes on the bike seat anyway.

On my SL 5.0 non-EQ, I installed a Redshift ShockStop post, which I can't say enough good things about. The FutureShock in front also does quite well although I replaced the default spring with the lighter one that comes in the parts kit (I weight about 160lbs).

I had a Vado 4.0 "heavyweight" before the SL, and the SL feels as if it weighs half as much. In fact, on the flat rail-trails that we have around here I can easily pedal at a comfortable (but not fast) pace with the boost at zero. The SL definitely feels much better on gravel roads and paths, especially if there's any loose stuff. Over the winter I'll be going with a somewhat wider tire -- Pathfinder Pro 700x42 -- which should make the ride even better as well as improving off-road performance. The stock tires on the non-EQ are Pathfinder 700x38; it's the EQ that gets the more pavement-oriented Nimbus tires.

 

[Capt Amazing]

vado sl seems like a good fit for your use case! it’s likely there will be a new version soon with the new motor, like the new creo, so you may want to either 1) wait or 2) try for a really good deal!

Yeah, think you're right. No clue if/when the new motor will be available, though I think the 1.1 will suit me just fine.

 

[Capt Amazing]

It's actually quite easy if you don't mind losing the light. Just pull the wires up out of the downtube, disconnect, tape them up, and it's done. I use a Garmin Varia radar taillight, which IMO is functionally superior to the one that comes on the bike seat anyway.

On my SL 5.0 non-EQ, I installed a Redshift ShockStop post, which I can't say enough good things about. The FutureShock in front also does quite well although I replaced the default spring with the lighter one that comes in the parts kit (I weight about 160lbs).

I had a Vado 4.0 "heavyweight" before the SL, and the SL feels as if it weighs half as much. In fact, on the flat rail-trails that we have around here I can easily pedal at a comfortable (but not fast) pace with the boost at zero. The SL definitely feels much better on gravel roads and paths, especially if there's any loose stuff. Over the winter I'll be going with a somewhat wider tire -- Pathfinder Pro 700x42 -- which should make the ride even better as well as improving off-road performance. The stock tires on the non-EQ are Pathfinder 700x38; it's the EQ that gets the more pavement-oriented Nimbus tires.

Super helpful rochrunner! Thank you.

 

[rochrunner]

Yeah, think you're right. No clue if/when the new motor will be available, though I think the 1.1 will suit me just fine.

The motor in the current SL is definitely not silent, which I find mildly annoying at times, and a bit embarrassing when I'm on a group ride with mostly non-e-bikers. My old Vado 4.0, on the other hand, was completely silent in that regard.

 

[TrevorB]

Yeah, think you're right. No clue if/when the new motor will be available, though I think the 1.1 will suit me just fine.

Old motors climb hills just fine.
Any extra power a newer motor has will only be accessible in Turbo which is very good at flattening hills and batteries.

 

[Nubnub]

Old motors climb hills just fine.
Any extra power a newer motor has will only be accessible in Turbo which is very good at flattening hills and batteries.

I get what you're trying to say, but I would disagree. Depending on assist settings and rider power, the extra power of the 1.2 would be available at other than turbo settings. Just for illustration simplicity, assume the 1.1 is 300 W electrical power max and the 1.2 is 400 W max. Also for simplicity assume 100% support/assist setting with be 2x rider power. Total electrical motor power is rider power times 2 times the support setting with the power capped by the peak power setting. So for an ECO 25/25 setting and a rider power of 100 W, the 1.1 will add 100x2x.25=50 W. The 1.2 will add the same 50W. Both are below the peak power cap of 25% - 75W for the 1.1 and 100 W for the 1.2.

But at a rider power of 200 W, the 1.1 is capped since 200x2x.25=100W and assist is limited to the 75W cap at the 25% peak power setting. OTOH hand the 1.2 peak power would not be limited since the 25% peak power setting would allow the full 100 W assist. I think this would be preceptible when riding harder/faster or climbing. At higher support/peak power settings, the effect should be even greater. And as you point out, the extra power will be fully accessible when in 100/100 Turbo mode.

 

[Capt Amazing]

WOW Nub, I found that hard to follow and I have a science degree (albeit a 46 year old bachelors).
A few Vado SL 5's have shown up on local shop websites - all at retail price. No Skitch flat bar bikes yet. Wondering if the Vado SL's will go on sale.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

WOW Nub, I found that hard to follow and I have a science degree (albeit a 46 year old bachelors).

Nub meant that the maximum Assist Factor ("It's N * You!") is the same for SL 1.1 and SL 1.2. (Either motor is boosting the rider's leg power with the same factor). The rider's leg power is an input signal (an assistance request) that is responded by the motor output signal (assistance) based on the same multiplier for SL 1.1 or 1.2. This happens until the Maximum Motor Power has been reached. Meaning, an average rider will get the same assistance in low assistance modes from either motor.

What makes these two motors different is the maximum power. If you are pedalling hard and request high assistance, the SL 1.1 will not deliver more than 240 W mechanical while the SL 1.2 would be able to deliver up to 33% more (320 W mechanical power).

We also limit the Maximum Motor Power in lower assistance levels to conserve the battery charge. As complicated as it might seem, the simple explanation is the SL1.2 will only feel stronger when you request maximum assistance (Turbo). It is vital for e-MTB (steep climb in rough terrain) and for gravel e-bike (riding a very hard terrain). It is marginal for recreational riders unless there are very steep hill around you and you need a massive assistance at times.

To give you some perspective: the SL 1.1 or 1.2 motor provides exactly 50% assist of my specific full power Vado. However, the maximum power of the SL 1.1 is 46%, and SL 1.2 is 61% compared to my Vado 6.0 motor.

Wondering if the Vado SL's will go on sale.

My feeling is the Vado SL was already on sale in the U.S. in late 2023.

 

[mfgrep]

Since you already have a road bike I'm not sure why you'd prefer the Vado SL vs a Creo -esp the updated Creos with the stronger 1.2 motor - you can always adjust assist levels downward if the Creo was more powerful than you need. Having said that, the Vado SL was my first ebike and I've been happy with it.

1. I am looking at a Santa Cruz Skitch flat bar to replace my nearly 4 year old 4.0SL EQ. Is is lighter carbon frame and has a stronger motor/bigger battery. It does not have lights or fenders but there are plenty of 3rd party add ons that would work well. The base flat bar is "only" $1k more than a 5.0 SL EQ. Add a bit more for fenders/lights. However it is possible that you can also get an SL at a significant discount - so factor that in as well.
2. Some have modified the swapped seatpost to reroute the taillight wire, same with the rear fenders. Not all seatposts can be modified tho. It is easy enough to disconnect the light power at the top tube connecto and just remove the stock light and replace with a 3rd party light of your choice. Fenders are easily removable assumming you have a way to deal with the tail light wire. Unlikely to be easily removable/replaceable unless you connectorize the tailight wiring.
3. Stock tires were just ok. I replaced with 38mm Pathfinder Pros tubeless. Good enough that I replaced with the same tires when the first set wore out.

I have the Vado 4.0 SL and I'm happy with it. The N+1 that lurks within me has me salivating at the Santa Cruz Skitch flatbar. For my style and sensibilities the Skitch ticks every single box. Price aside of course.
I would love to hear from a Vado SL owner who switched to the Skitch....I'm very interested in riding impressions, power, torque, battery life, Fazua system, motor noise etc......from a real life rider (not from a promotional review).

 

[mfgrep]

WOW Nub, I found that hard to follow and I have a science degree (albeit a 46 year old bachelors).
A few Vado SL 5's have shown up on local shop websites - all at retail price. No Skitch flat bar bikes yet. Wondering if the Vado SL's will go on sale.

During June of 2023 I just happened to be in a bike store browsing for a CHEAP first ebike for myself. At that time I was looking at Aventon but I wasn't pleased with the Aventon product. Sure Aventon was about $1200 at that time....but it 'did nothing for me'.
While waiting for assistance I was looking at the Vado SL and the salesman said "it went on big time sale today". I replied "It can't be discounted enough to get me interested. I know and like this bike but it is more than I wish to spend". Salesman said "$2499" and I said "What??!!??".
I bought that bike a few days later and I'm glad that I did. $2500 is not nothing to me....and is quite expensive for a bike (to me).....but I am sure glad that I was smart enough to pull the trigger when I did.

There are better bikes in that 'lightweight fitness style ebike' category.....but none so far have provided a similar quality, utility, AND PRICE. As I posted before here....that Santa Cruz Skitch really rings my bells but I don't wish to spend $6K on a bicycle.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I don't wish to spend $6K on a bicycle.

Can't believe you said that out loud around here!

Wow, that $2,499 is $200 less than I paid for my lowly Surface 604 hub-drive in September, 2022! Still happy with it, and an SL wouldn't work for me as an only-ebike. But one day I'll add a Specialized mid-drive — wife and garage space permitting.