Disc Brakes and Pads

[Sierratim]

How many miles are you getting on a set of pads? What brand and type of pads?

I've never owned a disc brake equipped bike before my Vado 5 though I have worked on a few with my sons and at the local 'bicycle kitchen'. Nice stopping power, but my pads wear much faster than I'd expected. I got ~500 miles on the first set of pads with the front pads wearing noticeably fatser than the rear. I suppose I was accostomed to the life I get out of the V-brake pads on our mechs. Lighter bikes on more level ground are apparently not good standards to set expectations for disc pads!

Our Vados are equipped with Shimano BR-M8000 calipers and SM-RT76 series rotors. Shimano G03 'organic' pads were originally installed as I recall.

At my sons'suggestion I switched to Shimano metallic/sinthered pads, J04C. The goals were even better stopping power and much longer pad life. I struggled to get them to quit squealing and as I've said in at lesst one other post, noisy brakes suck. I 'bedded' them in (see https://reviews.mtbr.com/how-to-bedding-in-new-disc-brake-pads and

), cleaned rotors and pads several times, lightly sanded the pad surfaces, and even tried the Squeal Out abrasive compound. Nothing really helped, except Squeal Out, but it only worked for a few miles. After reapplying it several times, I gave up after ~60 miles of trying and went back to organic pads, more G03s. Quite brakes rematerialized instantlly.

The 2nd set of organic pads were wearing just as fast as the first set. One theory I read was that since the organic pads don't conduct heat to the rotors well their wear might be accelerated by heat build up caused by braking on our local hills - my typical ride inclides 2,000 - 3,500 feet of climbing. After several hundred more miles of quite braking (and maybe 50% pad wear) I decided to try organic pads with integrated heat sinks. Shimano makes these as well, J03 pads, but I decided to try another brand, KOOL STOP Aero Kool KS-D635K pads.

So far, so good. The brakes aren't quite as quiet (did I get the 'e's in all the right spots?). KOOL STOP does claim longer life so maybe the pads are harder. They seem to have the same stopping power as the original Shimano pads. Time will tell if the heat sink improves pad life. I'll report back.

How are your brakes doing?

 

[Nxkharra]

How many miles are you getting on a set of pads? What brand and type of pads?

I've never owned a disc brake equipped bike before my Vado 5 though I have worked on a few with my sons and at the local 'bicycle kitchen'. Nice stopping power, but my pads wear much faster than I'd expected. I got ~500 miles on the first set of pads with the front pads wearing noticeably fatser than the rear. I suppose I was accostomed to the life I get out of the V-brake pads on our mechs. Lighter bikes on more level ground are apparently not good standards to set expectations for disc pads!

Our Vados are equipped with Shimano BR-M8000 calipers and SM-RT76 series rotors. Shimano G03 'organic' pads were originally installed as I recall.

At my sons'suggestion I switched to Shimano metallic/sinthered pads, J04C. The goals were even better stopping power and much longer pad life. I struggled to get them to quit squealing and as I've said in at lesst one other post, noisy brakes suck. I 'bedded' them in (see https://reviews.mtbr.com/how-to-bedding-in-new-disc-brake-pads and

), cleaned rotors and pads several times, lightly sanded the pad surfaces, and even tried the Squeal Out abrasive compound. Nothing really helped, except Squeal Out, but it only worked for a few miles. After reapplying it several times, I gave up after ~60 miles of trying and went back to organic pads, more G03s. Quite brakes rematerialized instantlly.

The 2nd set of organic pads were wearing just as fast as the first set. One theory I read was that since the organic pads don't conduct heat to the rotors well their wear might be accelerated by heat build up caused by braking on our local hills - my typical ride inclides 2,000 - 3,500 feet of climbing. After several hundred more miles of quite braking (and maybe 50% pad wear) I decided to try organic pads with integrated heat sinks. Shimano makes these as well, J03 pads, but I decided to try another brand, KOOL STOP Aero Kool KS-D635K pads.

View attachment 50546

So far, so good. The brakes aren't quite as quiet (did I get the 'e's in all the right spots?). KOOL STOP does claim longer life so maybe the pads are harder. They seem to have the same stopping power as the original Shimano pads. Time will tell if the heat sink improves pad life. I'll report back.

How are your brakes doing?

I have 1,700 miles with the original pads that came with Vado 5. I have noticed the break levers are softer but still decent amount of stopping power.
no squeak.
I am waiting for local bike shop to open to take the bike in for break inspection and possible change of pads.
meanwhile keeping my fingers cross when going downhill.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I have no experience with disk brakes at all and don't want to touch them myself at all . The Vado is to be serviced by the Specialized LBS as obligatory and paid service to keep the warranty valid. Besides, Specialized used the top-notch TRP Zurich disk brakes on their 2017 Vado 5.0.

Since my Lovelec has far more miles on it and far cheaper Shimano brakes, I feel the brakes need servicing very soon. I just call the local LBS and agree when I could bring the bike in. I don't intend to even touch the brakes myself as they are too important to my safety on the rides.

 

[rich c]

I have 3,800 miles on my Haibike Trekking with factory pads, and 3,100 on my Haibike Full Seven with factory pads. I have new pads sitting on the shelf, and will change the Full Seven in a couple weeks. Trekking could easily go another 600-700 miles, maybe a thousand. Nice and flat in Central IL. For comparison to others, both bikes are class 3 and I weigh 245 pounds.

 

[coffeemaker]

the front pads wearing noticeably fatser than the rear.

That's expected. When braking, the front tires have more grip so they should be used more than the rear ones for safety.

Lighter bikes on more level ground are apparently not good standards to set expectations for disc pads!

The Vado is indeed a very heavy bike and requires a lot of braking force. With the electric assist, it may be easy to accelerate, but the brakes will wear out quickly compared to a road bike.

I switched to Shimano metallic/sinthered pads, J04C. The goals were even better stopping power and much longer pad life. I struggled to get them to quit squealing

Metallic pads are inherently louder than resin pads. Let us know how the Kool Stop pads are. Hopefully the fins dissipate heat effectively and extend the pad life. Some say you should switch the rotor as well if you're switching compound types.

 

[Nxkharra]

I have no experience with disk brakes at all and don't want to touch them myself at all . The Vado is to be serviced by the Specialized LBS as obligatory and paid service to keep the warranty valid. Besides, Specialized used the top-notch TRP Zurich disk brakes on their 2017 Vado 5.0.

Since my Lovelec has far more miles on it and far cheaper Shimano brakes, I feel the brakes need servicing very soon. I just call the local LBS and agree when I could bring the bike in. I don't intend to even touch the brakes myself as they are too important to my safety on the rides.

I agree with Stefan. Unless you know what you are doing and doing well breaks are not to be compromise. Safety first.

 

[FlatSix911]

How many miles are you getting on a set of pads? What brand and type of pads?

I've never owned a disc brake equipped bike before my Vado 5 though I have worked on a few with my sons and at the local 'bicycle kitchen'. Nice stopping power, but my pads wear much faster than I'd expected. I got ~500 miles on the first set of pads with the front pads wearing noticeably fatser than the rear. I suppose I was accostomed to the life I get out of the V-brake pads on our mechs. Lighter bikes on more level ground are apparently not good standards to set expectations for disc pads!

Our Vados are equipped with Shimano BR-M8000 calipers and SM-RT76 series rotors. Shimano G03 'organic' pads were originally installed as I recall.

At my sons'suggestion I switched to Shimano metallic/sinthered pads, J04C. The goals were even better stopping power and much longer pad life. I struggled to get them to quit squealing and as I've said in at lesst one other post, noisy brakes suck. I 'bedded' them in (see https://reviews.mtbr.com/how-to-bedding-in-new-disc-brake-pads and

), cleaned rotors and pads several times, lightly sanded the pad surfaces, and even tried the Squeal Out abrasive compound. Nothing really helped, except Squeal Out, but it only worked for a few miles. After reapplying it several times, I gave up after ~60 miles of trying and went back to organic pads, more G03s. Quite brakes rematerialized instantlly.

The 2nd set of organic pads were wearing just as fast as the first set. One theory I read was that since the organic pads don't conduct heat to the rotors well their wear might be accelerated by heat build up caused by braking on our local hills - my typical ride inclides 2,000 - 3,500 feet of climbing. After several hundred more miles of quite braking (and maybe 50% pad wear) I decided to try organic pads with integrated heat sinks. Shimano makes these as well, J03 pads, but I decided to try another brand, KOOL STOP Aero Kool KS-D635K pads.

View attachment 50546
So far, so good. The brakes aren't quite as quiet (did I get the 'e's in all the right spots?). KOOL STOP does claim longer life so maybe the pads are harder. They seem to have the same stopping power as the original Shimano pads. Time will tell if the heat sink improves pad life. I'll report back.

How are your brakes doing?

The Kool Stop pads appear to have a large deep heatsink... keep us posted on your results with regard to extending the pad life.

Another option is to upgrade to SM-RT86 /99 Ice Tech Bi-metal rotors with an integrated heat conductor to the aluminum center spider.

The bottom line is that reducing heat should improve the life of braking system and also reduce fade on long descents.

 

[Marcela]

Coming right at 400 miles on my 5.0. Have already changed to the 203mm rotors and checking the pads, they have plenty of material left on the 03s. I plan to stay with these.

Was out on the Sequoia with it's 160mm rotors with hydraulic calipers, thought these were the bomb till compared to the Vado with the 203mm's. The Vado though quite a bit heavier brakes much better than the Sequoia, much better.

I also have the floating Magura rotors installed, thicker disc. Thought about the ice tech but the two materials sandwiched together didn't sound like a long term solution.

Warped rotors will also prematurely wear the pads unless they have enough knock back, and if they are warped and knock the pads back, the levers are going to feel like they take more movement to engage the pads. Flat rotors are probably few and far between because they are solid mounted, hence the floaters.

There is a lot of info about bedding brakes so I won't add to it, but bedding is important to keep the squealing down or from glazing the pads or disc.

 

[Sierratim]

Another great Spring ride today with over 3,000 feet of climbing. The KOOL STOP pads have quieted down making almost no noise today. They and the 203mm front / 180mm rear rotors provide great downhill braking. I'll know about pad life in a few more weeks. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[TS25]

@all the scaredy cats

Anybody riding a bike with disc brakes should at least be able to check and replace the brake pads, it's not rocket science.

Have a look

and gain confidence.

If you are still afraid you could do something wrong and do not want to touch it: at least take a torch from time to time and check the brake pad wear visually. f.e. my Shimano B01 resin pads come 2mm thick and should have 0,5mm at least.

There is a big difference in brake pad wear if you are riding in hilly countryside, in town with a lot of stops or touring in flat country. So your brake pads might be down within 700 miles or last 3000+ miles. Mine last more than thought, and after the first 1000 miles I check them visually every 300 miles or so which takes a minute.

The Vado is not a heavy bike in comparison with other trekking e-bikes. Organic brake pads have more wear but less squeak problems. So I stick to organic pads, and a set costs me 3,50€ only.

 

[Nxkharra]

@all the scaredy cats

Anybody riding a bike with disc brakes should at least be able to check and replace the brake pads, it's not rocket science.

Have a look

and gain confidence.

If you are still afraid you could do something wrong and do not want to touch it: at least take a torch from time to time and check the brake pad wear visually. f.e. my Shimano B01 resin pads come 2mm thick and should have 0,5mm at least.

There is a big difference in brake pad wear if you are riding in hilly countryside, in town with a lot of stops or touring in flat country. So your brake pads might be down within 700 miles or last 3000+ miles. Mine last more than thought, and after the first 1000 miles I check them visually every 300 miles or so which takes a minute.

The Vado is not a heavy bike in comparison with other trekking e-bikes. Organic brake pads have more wear but less squeak problems. So I stick to organic pads, and a set costs me 3,50€ only.

Too many types and confusing. Specially if you haven’t done this before. May be if watch someone do it first one can repeat the process.
Which type is Vado?
Agree that we should learn and know how to do.
thanks for encouragement and resource.

 

[TS25]

I agree with you that it's confusing to show all the brake variations in the video but they intended "to cover the market".

If you look closer at your brakes you'll find your model type written, probably on the inner side. Also try to find out which brake disc model is installed, it's written on the disc. Documentation of the brake manufacterer gives you more information.

My Vado 4.0 has a Shimano BR-MT500 brake but I know that even others who ride the same Vado model and year have a different brake rotor model.

My picture shows that my brake pad holder is a "spline type" and all you have to do is straiten the spline [cotter pin], pull it out and pull the brake pads holder out. But as said you could check the pad wear by just looking from the (in my case other) side of the brake, and pull it out only if you are in doubt.

 

[Sierratim]

I absolutely agree that you should inspect your brakes regularly, even if you're not comfortable servicing them yourself. You can check pad wear with a flashlight/torch or just pull them out for a look. They slide in and out with no adjustment required, just remove the cotter pin or in my case the hex head bolt as TS25's pic shows.

I also give the hydraulic fittings a quick look checking for signs of a leak. Shimano tints their mineral oil red so it is to spot.

Finally, I check the bolts securing the calipers for tightness.

As you mileage goes up, this is esp important if you end up riding longer distances or even riding out of town. Don't want a brake problem to suddenly pop up and ruin your ride!

 

[Nxkharra]

Mine is:
FRONT BRAKEShimano Deore XT T8000, hydraulic disc, 180mm
REAR BRAKEShimano Deore XT T8000, hydraulic disc, 160mm
I will check the pads for wear and will either order the pads and change or will take to LBS to do so when they open.
thanks again for all the good suggestions

 

[Sierratim]

Changing your own pads is straight forward, but you will need to pull the wheel and use a hydraulic piston press like the Park Tool PP-1.2 to spread the pistons to their full spacing. Otherwise the new pads won't have enough room for the rotor.

I use a generic brand piston press tool. I've watched my sons use plastic tire levers as well.

 

[TS25]

The correct name of your brake should be Shimano Deore XT M8000. Please check again using the picture in my following link

SHIMANO DEORE XT Hydraulic Disc Brake 2-Piston Caliper | SHIMANO BIKE-US

The refined caliper design of the SHIMANO DEORE XT hydraulic disc brake caliper supplies stable brake performance across a wide range of MTB conditions.

bike.shimano.com

You can tell by the picture (and live viewing I do hope ) that you do not have a cotter pin but a hex bolt to be loosened.

The linked Shimano page shows you brake pads you can choose from.
f.e. G02A resin or G04S metal. You get about 2 resin pad sets for the price of one (sinter-)metal pad set.

 

[dAz63]

Yes when the pads start looking like this, time to replace

 

[Nxkharra]

The correct name of your brake should be Shimano Deore XT M8000. Please check again using the picture in my following link

SHIMANO DEORE XT Hydraulic Disc Brake 2-Piston Caliper | SHIMANO BIKE-US

The refined caliper design of the SHIMANO DEORE XT hydraulic disc brake caliper supplies stable brake performance across a wide range of MTB conditions.

bike.shimano.com

You can tell by the picture (and live viewing I do hope ) that you do not have a cotter pin but a hex bolt to be loosened.

The linked Shimano page shows you brake pads you can choose from.
f.e. G02A resin or G04S metal. You get about 2 resin pad sets for the price of one (sinter-)metal pad set.

@TS25 I cut and pasted the numbers from Specialized site. Will check again. T8000 must be the break system?? Here is couple of pics. They do look exactly like the picture in your link. Thanks.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Yes when the pads start looking like this, time to replace

Those are definitely DONE.

 

[Sierratim]

Yes when the pads start looking like this, time to replace

Way done! The left pad looks to be completely gone with signs of scoring from rubbing on the rotor. Is the rotor still usable? How was the stopping power?