2nd Ebike Conversion Questions

[AxialFlux]

After the success of the Townie conversion, I figured I would convert my mountain bike, a Schwinn Taff. I ordered a CSC 1000 watt 29" rear wheel conversion kit, and the install went well with a couple of exceptions.

First off, this kit has the 3 ring terminals for the motor wires, and a big plastic block that you bolt the rings to. Not a big deal, except that huge block would not fit in my enclosure. So I decided to snip the rings, and use Anderson connectors there, so as to get rid of the connecting block. Hopefully, that is fine.

Second, the kit came with the normal PAS sensor ring that requires you to remove the crank to install it. The kit I got for the Townie came with this as well, but I ordered the split ring type, so I don't need to pull the crank. It works well on the Townie, so I ordered another one for this kit, but I am getting no pedal assist. The LED blinks as you pedal, but the motor never kicks in. I went through the settings, although I am really not sure what I am looking for. This kit uses the LCD3 display, and all the settings seem to be different than what my other display used.

Lastly, when I was first testing this out in PAS level 1 using throttle only, it would work fine on first use. What I mean, is I would give it throttle, go up to about 15mph up the slight incline in front of my house, and then coast back around to do it again. On the second attempt, the motor would stutter, and almost try to lock up it seemed. I checked all of my motor wires, included the big connector which I assume is the hall sensor connector, and everything seemed fine. Lifted the back wheel off the ground, and it ran fine, so I tried another test. Again, got one good run, and stuttering. I finally checked all my plugs, including the throttle connector, which I unplugged, and plugged back in. Now it seems to be working great. I just spent about 15 minutes going up and down my street with no issues. Would a loose throttle connector do this?

 

[JES2020]

Try changing your PAS settings (C1) for reverse polarity.
I would assume a lose connection could cause all kinds of intermittent throttle issues.

 

[harryS]

I agree with JSE2020. Try a different C1 value, and if that doesn't work, flip the disk around. Magnetic fields flow in one direction, and the sensors are set up for that. That's why PAS doesn't work if you pedal backwards. So you might have the disk backwards. Easy to do when mixing components.

 

[JES2020]

I agree with JSE2020. Try a different C1 value, and if that doesn't work, flip the disk around. Magnetic fields flow in one direction, and the sensors are set up for that. That's why PAS doesn't work if you pedal backwards. So you might have the disk backwards. Easy to do when mixing components.

I ran into this issue myself.
The problem is not as simple as turning the disk around, because the magnets still move in the same direction, (clockwise on the right side of the crank) the issue is with the hall sensor, which needs the magnets to move only in one direction past its two part sensor.
So the other alternative to reversing the polarity in C1 would have to be changing the disk to the OTHER side of the crank so the magnets move counterclockwise...which in many cases is imposable due to the space.

 

[AxialFlux]

Success! The manual that came with the kit does not mention any settings beyond the initial ones, so I did not know there were additional C and P settings. Found the full manual online, so now I should be good. I set C1 to 4, and the PAS is working now. I am concerned though that it might not be programmed correctly for the motor. I know with the Townie kit, the Amazon listing told you exactly what to program, but on this CSC kit, I haven't found anything. Might email them to check.

One final thing is that my disc is now rubbing on the pad. It's not alot, but it is enough to where if you spin the wheel, it's not as free as it should be. I'm thinking the only way to really center is, is to add another washer between the motor and the frame, although I already have two in there. Look at the pic to see what I am talking about.

 

[harryS]

Another way to fix that is to put on a bigger rotor and buy an adapter that moves the caliper out away from any possible interference with the motor. It's not expensive and the bigger rotor gives the brakes more leverage.

JES2020, the PAS sensors that come in the red case (no LED light, not for $7 bucks) will read backwards if the magnet disk is flipped. I took off my BB to grease it once, and put the disk back on backwards. No PAS unless I pedalled backwards. You're right. It depends on what sensor they use. The best kind, from my point of view, is the one piece PAS sensor. No sensor/frame mounting is needed, but the last one I tried was to thick to fit between the frame and pedal arms,

 

[AxialFlux]

Another way to fix that is to put on a bigger rotor and buy an adapter that moves the caliper out away from any possible interference with the motor. It's not expensive and the bigger rotor gives the brakes more leverage.

I see what you mean, however, the caliper is not interfering with the motor. I may add another washer there to move everything a bit to the right.

 

[AxialFlux]

Well, I seem to be an idiot. I looked more closely at where the brake assembly mounts to the frame, and low and behold, you can loosen the screws, and side the whole thing a bit. I now have the rotor in the middle of the pads.

I also sent CSC a msg to see whether I need to program anything else, like number of magnets on the motor.

 

[JES2020]

Another way to fix that is to put on a bigger rotor and buy an adapter that moves the caliper out away from any possible interference with the motor. It's not expensive and the bigger rotor gives the brakes more leverage.

JES2020, the PAS sensors that come in the red case (no LED light, not for $7 bucks) will read backwards if the magnet disk is flipped. I took off my BB to grease it once, and put the disk back on backwards. No PAS unless I pedalled backwards. You're right. It depends on what sensor they use. The best kind, from my point of view, is the one piece PAS sensor. No sensor/frame mounting is needed, but the last one I tried was to thick to fit between the frame and pedal arms,

That's correct, peddling backwards would activate the motor for both types of sensor.

If you peddle backwards( on a flipped installation of the disk), the hall sensor will work, because the disk is now rotating in reverse. It's a little confusing I know, I ruined the one piece PAS trying to splice it's hall sensor to the 2 piece sensors disk and mangled the mount to align, (thinking the 2 piece sensor was bad). To add to the confusion the one piece sensor WAS falty and resulted in a severe jerky operation. Calibike even noted that was his experience with the one piece.

"the last one I tried was to thick to fit between the frame and pedal arms,"
That is a common challange. I had to sand down the disk to keep it from rotating with the crank, then I had to put a dab of epoxy between the splines to keep it from slipping! Could it be more fiddly? But all in all I really enjoy the PAS, it's very smooth an well worth the effort...plus I learned something as a bonus!

 

[JES2020]

Success! The manual that came with the kit does not mention any settings beyond the initial ones, so I did not know there were additional C and P settings. Found the full manual online, so now I should be good. I set C1 to 4, and the PAS is working now. I am concerned though that it might not be programmed correctly for the motor. I know with the Townie kit, the Amazon listing told you exactly what to program, but on this CSC kit, I haven't found anything. Might email them to check.

One final thing is that my disc is now rubbing on the pad. It's not alot, but it is enough to where if you spin the wheel, it's not as free as it should be. I'm thinking the only way to really center is, is to add another washer between the motor and the frame, although I already have two in there. Look at the pic to see what I am talking about.

View attachment 66020

Don't worry about the programming of the motor for the PAS sensor, either it works or it doesn't . One thing though, you will get the best performance IE smooth operation, if you select the correct magnet number for your disk. And of course more magnets on the disk gives smoother operation of the motor.

 

[AxialFlux]

Well, I thought I had everything sorted, but still having motor issues. Did fine for about the first 5 minutes or so, then started acting up. When this happens, the throttle will not start the wheel moving on it's own, as you can see in the video below. Does the same thing on pedal assist as well.

 

[JES2020]

Strange. Try disconnecting your ebrakes cable.

 

[tomjasz]

Peddling is selling, pedaling is what we do!

 

[JES2020]

Peddling is selling, pedaling is what we do!

Oh thank you thank you!
you are sooo very helpful.

 

[AxialFlux]

Problem solved. Checked over all the plugs again, and noticed one of the motor phase plugs looked a bit shiny. Went to unplug it, and it wouldn't budge. I cut the plug off, as well as the others, and soldered them. Works fine now.

 

[JES2020]

Better find out why that plug is melted, it is melted isn't it?
Maybe pull it apart and see if the connectors look normal, also keep a watch on that wire for exessive heat.

 

[AxialFlux]

Better find out why that plug is melted, it is melted isn't it?
Maybe pull it apart and see if the connectors look normal, also keep a watch on that wire for exessive heat.

I cannot pull them apart, and seem to be fused shut. My guess is, when I replaced the ring terminals with the Andersons, I did not get that one crimped well. I did have issues, as the only crimper I have is for Molex trifurcon connectors (I do pinball repair). Anyways, the wire looked fine going into the connector, no melted insulation or anything. I will keep a check on it though.

 

[JES2020]

I cannot pull them apart, and seem to be fused shut. My guess is, when I replaced the ring terminals with the Andersons, I did not get that one crimped well. I did have issues, as the only crimper I have is for Molex trifurcon connectors (I do pinball repair). Anyways, the wire looked fine going into the connector, no melted insulation or anything. I will keep a check on it though.

Ahh that explains the mismatched colors. Seems like a logical explanation, a spark gap in the connector.

 

[tomjasz]

fused shut

Yikes! Why would anyone use red and black as paired connectors? SILLY!

 

[AxialFlux]

Yikes! Why would anyone use red and black as paired connectors? SILLY!

I put them on to replace the ring terminals. Colors didn't matter to me.