2020 -Top 10 Ebikes With The Bafang G510 Ultra

[TomD]

Have to say the handlebars on the LX look a bit short an uncomfortable, almost like they blended a scooter with a step thru and added fat tires. Would make more sense with comfort handlebars.

 

[jaizon]

It is possible too switch them out, as per Sonders rep.

 

[RMK!]

If Sondors knows anything it's marketing. There is an old but wise axiom in the business world. Give me a B product, and an A marketing plan, and I'll give you a winner every time.

 

[Ebiker33]

Since I own a Sonders I am very interested in what they have come up with, with new mid-drives, their claim to fame has been best $ for $ value

 

[dunksalot]

There is a reason some of the top bikes are using this motor, pure power 160 NM equal 118 foot lbs. of torque, the Bosch is a very good motor but at only 75nm of torque that is only 55 foot pounds of torque, and really it's designed for the European market not the North American market. If you want to climb grade with weight you are going to be limited at some point. The bikes that are changing to the Gates Drive system have done so because aggressive riders that push this motor to it's limits are busting chains like crazy, one customer busting 5 within a year. Basically if the motor is tuned to 1600 watts plus, your chains life will be greatly reduced, if you are pushing it. The bikes that are using chains seem to be using KMC Ebike specific ones. As well Bafang knows this motor is good but it needs further software tuning, I was just watching a video from their factory, where they specifically had riders going out testing different software configurations to improve that aspect.

The list is by price highest to lowest, it's up to each person to discover what the best value is for them, links provided.

#1 Watt Wagon-Cross Tour $7299.00
Of note Titanium frame fully loaded and always improving, fat tire style, they also make a commuter but I wanted to pick just one from each brand.
Watt Wagon Cross Tour

#2 EXCESS From Germany $6965.00
Of note they are a one model only type company, carbon fiber frame with the upgraded G510 Excess controller which I included in the price, that controller is suppose to really improve the tuning.
EXCESS

#3 LUNA Cycle-Apollo $5550.00
Of note Carbon fiber frame with probably the very best battery of all these Ebikes 52V 21Amp/hrs with upgraded cells, batteries is their specialty, so this should be of no surprise, also they have also tuned their G510 to higher specifications.
LUNA Apollo

#4 FLX - Blade 2 $5269.00
Of note 2020 model has changed the frame and drive train, looks very good, I took the fully loaded price, as that is what I would buy.
FLX BLADE 2

#5 Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra 1000 $4229.00
Of note I put the upgrades in, they have had more time with this motor as they were one of the first to get it to market, getting more economical now for price under $5K
BIKTRIX Juggernaut Ultra

#6 FREY- EX PRO $4010.00
Of note this bike has duel 48 volt 14 amp/hr batteries one inside the tube and one outside, the ultimate long distance runner.
FREY EX PRO

#7 M2S Bikes All Terrain Ultra FS - $3499.00
The only reason it beat out the one below is because it has 29 reviews average 5/5 stars which I felt was worth capturing the 7th spot.
MS2 ULTRA FS

#8 Volton- A-Trail EMTB -$3499.00
Used the upgraded motor package to get to this.
VOLTON A TRAIL EMTB

#9 Rize - RX - $2799.00
Just changed from Sparks and re-branded to Rize, a very thrifty price for what you actually get.
Rize RX

#10 BPM F-1000 - $2395.00
This is the most economical of the bunch.
BPM F-1000

I know there are more out there, but I think this is a good list with high to low prices.
Edited in a #10 as per the posts below, top 10 sounds better anyways.

FYI...I bookmarked this list months ago and continue to come back to it numerous times. Is it time to update? Are there more bikes out there? Thank you for making it - so helpful.

I found myself going through this cycle: (a) Anything Bafang mid-drive, (b) OK so Banfang but Luna made some nice modifications so definitely buy from Luna but that Ultra has more potential power available, and finally (c) OK Bafang Ultra now but maybe a Luna bike, but hmmm now the Watt Wagons Archon X1 mod sounds like an upgrade from Luna because it's the closest thing to the smoothness of a Bosch with the thumb throttle I demand and insano mode power I will want on uphill trails.

That puts me leaning towards the FLX Trail 2.0 with aftermarket upgrade to WW or (preferred) Travalanche. Also, need to factor in a divorce when my wife realizes I "spent $9K on a bicycle!!!???". "But honey...Bafang BBUHD with Archon X1."

 

[byunbee]

FYI...I bookmarked this list months ago and continue to come back to it numerous times. Is it time to update? Are there more bikes out there? Thank you for making it - so helpful.

I found myself going through this cycle: (a) Anything Bafang mid-drive, (b) OK so Banfang but Luna made some nice modifications so definitely buy from Luna but that Ultra has more potential power available, and finally (c) OK Bafang Ultra now but maybe a Luna bike, but hmmm now the Watt Wagons Archon X1 mod sounds like an upgrade from Luna because it's the closest thing to the smoothness of a Bosch with the thumb throttle I demand and insano mode power I will want on uphill trails.

That puts me leaning towards the FLX Trail 2.0 with aftermarket upgrade to WW or (preferred) Travalanche. Also, need to factor in a divorce when my wife realizes I "spent $9K on a bicycle!!!???". "But honey...Bafang BBUHD with Archon X1."

Some guy that ordered the FLX Blade 2.0 couple of months ago with August delivery date got notified that it's been delayed to October. He ended up buying the UC Pro. Even if all other components are the same, the WW Ultra with the ARchon X1 controller makes it a no brainer.

 

[dunksalot]

Some guy that ordered the FLX Blade 2.0 couple of months ago with August delivery date got notified that it's been delayed to October. He ended up buying the UC Pro. Even if all other components are the same, the WW Ultra with the ARchon X1 controller makes it a no brainer.

I stopped by the FLX HQ since I work 5 miles away. Looks nicer in person.

Anyhow, I have zero need for a commuter. I want for eMTB-ing only. If I wanted a commuter the UC Pro is a fantastic option just for the dual batteries alone. I spent last night watching the Red Bull competition of analog MTB pros flying down mountain cliffs. Do commuter bike guys watch videos of people darting in and around city traffic?

 

[byunbee]

I stopped by the FLX HQ since I work 5 miles away. Looks nicer in person.

Anyhow, I have zero need for a commuter. I want for eMTB-ing only. If I wanted a commuter the UC Pro is a fantastic option just for the dual batteries alone. I spent last night watching the Red Bull competition of analog MTB pros flying down mountain cliffs. Do commuter bike guys watch videos of people darting in and around city traffic?

Even though the WW name has the word "commuter", I don't think it's any less capable off road than the FLX Blade 2.0. You just need knobbies and you're good to go.

Now if we're comparing actual full fledged MTB, then neither bike can live up to that.

 

[Ebiker33]

@dunksalot
You might be interested in the Travelanche from WW, that bike is basically # 2 EXESS on my list check it out, Germany will only sell them in NA through WW.
WW TRAVALANCHE

But it doesn't have a gates belt or a IGH, but it is Carbon fiber and full suspension, a great bike for sure.
I told Pushkar he needs to try and make it work so he has it all, he said he might try, if he can pull that off it will be an even better Ebike, of coarse the price would go up too.

I think the only way is to replace the back half with maybe Ti so it has the slit, Eboxx has done it so it can be done, but it only has the Bosch motor so no throttle and not as much power.
You also need a mechanism to allow for suspension movement, since this has never been done with a high powered Ebike at any volume, it needs tons of testing first as well.

But the price is crazy too $10,000 Euro's.

 

[byunbee]

@dunksalot
You might be interested in the Travelanche from WW, that bike is basically # 2 EXESS on my list check it out, Germany will only sell them in NA through WW.
WW TRAVALANCHE

But it doesn't have a gates belt or a IGH, but it is Carbon fiber and full suspension, a great bike for sure.
I told Pushkar he needs to try and make it work so he has it all, he said he might try, if he can pull that off it will be an even better Ebike, of coarse the price would go up too.

I think the only way is to replace the back half with maybe Ti so it has the slit, Eboxx has done it so it can be done, but it only has the Bosch motor so no throttle and not as much power.
You also need a mechanism to allow for suspension movement, since this has never been done with a high powered Ebike at any volume, it needs tons of testing first as well.

But the price is crazy too $10,000 Euro's.

@Ebiker33, what bike is that? It's not the Travalanch.

 

[byunbee]

@Ebiker33, what bike is that? It's not the Travalanch.

NVM, I missed that one work " Eboxx ".

 

[dunksalot]

@dunksalot
You might be interested in the Travelanche from WW, that bike is basically # 2 EXESS on my list check it out, Germany will only sell them in NA through WW.
WW TRAVALANCHE

But it doesn't have a gates belt or a IGH, but it is Carbon fiber and full suspension, a great bike for sure.
I told Pushkar he needs to try and make it work so he has it all, he said he might try, if he can pull that off it will be an even better Ebike, of coarse the price would go up too.

I think the only way is to replace the back half with maybe Ti so it has the slit, Eboxx has done it so it can be done, but it only has the Bosch motor so no throttle and not as much power.
You also need a mechanism to allow for suspension movement, since this has never been done with a high powered Ebike at any volume, it needs tons of testing first as well.

But the price is crazy too $10,000 Euro's.

If you scroll up I directly mention that as one of the nicest. Here's a fun question that probably deserves its own thread...

WHAT is your "Mount Rushmore of eMTBs"?
(You can do the same for Commuters, Fat Bikes, or Step-throughs...and we in America use this as the "best 4 of all-time" standard term.)

Mine today:
- Watt Wagons Travalanche $8,200 (Archon X1 w/160 Nm torque and top grade components...negative points for external battery)
- GreyP G6 $8,000 (Built-in front and rear cameras and track & trace system will be a standard everywhere soon - love this for street rides! This would be my top choice if it had a thumb throttle - never heard of the MPF Drive motor - by far the most beautiful eMTB)
- YT Decoy CF Pro Race $6,300 (Shimano motor + battery = no thumb) - best non-Bafang pound-for-pound value
- FLX Blade 2.0 $6,000 [No rear suspension, alum. frame, but the only off-the-shelf {Bafang Ultra + Speedhub} is nice trade-off]. If I ran FLX, I'd reach out to Pushkar for that Archon X1 upgrade option.

Honorable mention:
- Luna X1 Enduro in Ludicrous Mode $4,200 (you can argue for Apollo but I prefer internal battery - carbon, best "pound-for-pound" value)
- Specialized Turbo Levo SL $12,500 (Costly for brand name and support) - I prefer the Kenevo for $3K less.
- Haibike Flyon Nduro 10.0 $10,690 (Yamaha engine outperforms Bosch bikes + battery)
- Mondraker Crafty Carbon RR SL $14,250 (all carbon, very lightweight, but expensive - Bosch motor)
- Cube Stereo 160 C:62 $7,400 (Bosch motor, carbon, nice design and color schemes)
- KirbEbike Vapour $4,500 (Designed for speed - great value if you can do your own repairs)

 

[Ebiker33]

@dunksalot

The Grey G6 X Unlimited is amazing, too bad only 250W, what a waste on a 17K Ebike.
So many companies are making their Ebikes for the European standards, they are losing out on the huge NA market with such low power outputs.
I don't know too many people willing to pay that type of money for a very under powered Ebike.
It would be like buying a Corvette at full price that they dropped a Chevette motor into, just sad.

Copy pasted from their specs

• MOTOR / NOMINAL POWER MPF 6.0c, custom firmware, OTA updatable / 250W

 

[Ebiker33]

10K to a Hollywood or sports guy is nothing or Arnold...anybody know what brand he is riding?

 

[dunksalot]

10K to a Hollywood or sports guy is nothing or Arnold...anybody know what brand he is riding?

I've seen Vtuvia advertise him on that same model in a camo color. They are a Chinese brand with a warehouse in Los Angeles.

 

[byunbee]

If you scroll up I directly mention that as one of the nicest. Here's a fun question that probably deserves its own thread...

WHAT is your "Mount Rushmore of eMTBs"?
(You can do the same for Commuters, Fat Bikes, or Step-throughs...and we in America use this as the "best 4 of all-time" standard term.)

Mine today:
- Watt Wagons Travalanche $8,200 (Archon X1 w/160 Nm torque and top grade components...negative points for external battery, coil rear shock and weird exposed rear frame looks cheap)
- GreyP G6 $8,000 (Built-in front and rear cameras and track & trace system will be a standard everywhere soon - love this for street rides! This would be my top choice if it had a thumb throttle - never heard of the MPF Drive motor - by far the most beautiful eMTB)
- YT Decoy CF Pro Race $6,300 (Shimano motor + battery = no thumb) - best non-Bafang pound-for-pound value
- FLX Blade 2.0 $6,000 [No rear suspension, alum. frame, but the only off-the-shelf {Bafang Ultra + Speedhub} is nice trade-off]. If I ran FLX, I'd reach out to Pushkar for that Archon X1 upgrade option.

Honorable mention:
- Luna X1 Enduro in Ludicrous Mode $4,200 (you can argue for Apollo but I prefer internal battery - carbon, best "pound-for-pound" value)
- Specialized Turbo Levo SL $12,500 (Costly for brand name and support) - I prefer the Kenevo for $3K less.
- Haibike Flyon Nduro 10.0 $10,690 (Yamaha engine outperforms Bosch bikes + battery)
- Mondraker Crafty Carbon RR SL $14,250 (all carbon, very lightweight, but expensive - Bosch motor)
- Cube Stereo 160 C:62 $7,400 (Bosch motor, carbon, nice design and color schemes)
- Zen Samurai $3,500 (when it comes out this will be a tremendous value with top value parts - may bump FLX off the mountain)
- KirbEbike Vapour $4,500 (Designed for speed - great value if you can do your own repairs)

Not sure why FLX 2.0 is on your list. If you think Blade 2.0 is a capable emtb then might as well add the new UC Pro since it’s more capable than the Blade 2.0 especially with the Archon X1 controller.

 

[dunksalot]

Not sure why FLX 2.0 is on your list. If you think Blade 2.0 is a capable emtb then might as well add the new UC Pro since it’s more capable than the Blade 2.0 especially with the Archon X1 controller.

I just don't think the UC Pro has a cool look for eMTB. However, for commuter biking that thing is great. It has lights and racks and dual batteries and a step through option and hauls.

 

[TomD]

The thing about WW is you know you are getting a quality build so easy to recommend. Those of us involved in the UCP development probably have a greater appreciation seeing the level of thought and attention to detail that went into it. When considering frame design / stress testing I recall one competitor product didn't fare well in the models. I won't mention which one, but caveat emptor.

 

[Ebiker33]

Well, aside from the obvious looks and the point where I said you can always put together a Commuter list of your own, I'd guess you'd eventually be picking up parts off your UC Pro from the trails. Why even bother to offer the Travalanche when everyone can get a UC Pro? Do you keep a signed photo of Pushkar the Great above your mantle? Did you get a Watt Wagons logo tattooed on your lower back yet?

I'm being a wise ass so I hope you see the humor above. I just don't think the UC Pro has a cool look for eMTB. However, for commuter biking that thing is great. It has lights and racks and dual batteries and a step through option and hauls ass.

That is why he has that model for full Emtb needs
When a model is still one the best in it's class when it is 2.5 years old, it is a testimony to it's original design and components.

The FLX Blade 2 is also a great bike, especially if design looks are more important to you, but remember it is a hardtail. Seems like you might need that rear suspension from what you are posting.
As somebody who also pondered this question, people who say just put a really good suspension seat post on it to deal with the comfort aspect, but not the safety aspect of a full suspension bike doing a much better job of keeping the wheel planted on the ground, so it's safer regardless of the increased comfort levels. Even if you don't do a ton of trail riding do your roads have lots of pot holes?
I used to live in a city that had brutal winters and in the spring riding a bike was bad as their was so many pot holes around, that needed to be filled, brutal on hardtails and you could feel the rear wheel slippage at times.

You might also consider the FREY CC on your list, it ticks alot of boxes too.

One EBR member purchased this and later upgraded the controller to WW X1, and he really like it.

 

[byunbee]

Well, aside from the obvious looks and the point where I said you can always put together a Commuter list of your own, I'd guess you'd eventually be picking up parts off your UC Pro from the trails. Why even bother to offer the Travalanche when everyone can get a UC Pro? Do you keep a signed photo of Pushkar the Great above your mantle? Did you get a Watt Wagons logo tattooed on your lower back yet?

I'm being a wise ass so I hope you see the humor above. I just don't think the UC Pro has a cool look for eMTB. However, for commuter biking that thing is great. It has lights and racks and dual batteries and a step through option and hauls ass.

Nah you’re not wise. Just too ignorant to think that you have any sense.