2019–2020 R&M Homage : Riders' Impressions

[Dionigi]

I certainly understand your frustration particularly since the Kiox is “built in “ not allowing you to easily convert to another controller like the Nyon. When I ordered my Nevo GX Rohloff I was upset only the older controller, intuvia, was available .. The Nyon was not an option and the fanthom COBI does not work with the E-14 Rohloff. In principle the Kiox should be the future, but at the expense of the early adapters who must fight the battle with the manufacturers to supple what’s promised.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

I was planning on getting it with the Kiox, knowing it is still not complete, but hoping that in the course of the year the connectivity will be made available. I’d hate to put an 80s-style Intuvia on that bike.

The Kiox is 'built-in' not allowing you to easily convert to another controller like the Nyon… The Kiox should be the future, but at the expense of the early adapters who must fight the battle with the manufacturers to supply what’s promised.

Oblix and Diongi …
Well put!

Now that we know that the Kiox is a work-in-progress, it is probably worth hoping that Bosch will make it work properly.

For the time being, I am running my Wahoo Elemnt (from road biking days – have they ended?) alongside the Kiox. What is missing from the Wahoo's ride record is, of course, any indication of motor assist. Now that I'd find interesting. Richard has posted ride data collected by his Nyon that makes me so envious!

So, will the wait for Bosch's Ebike Connect app be worth it? I simply don't know… and that brings me right back to my assessment that Bosch and, by association, Riese & Müller lack credibility. I simply cannot accept on trust that what they claim is correct.
… David

 

[Clamps]

Hi all,

I've test-ridden a couple of R&M bikes with the Rohloff and the E14, and while I love them and will be buying one when I can afford it, I had 1 major gripe - the gear shifting buttons for the E14. They're the worst! Using it was like trying to use a left-handed mouse (I'm right handed).
While it's obvious they went with the easiest button set to order and fit, it's clear they did no research on ergonomics. I've seen that the AddMotoR M-60 L7 uses exactly the same button ring for its controller interface, so I assume it's some 3rd party component they ordered to "do the job".

Yet another example of what happens when you let engineers design user interfaces?

I've seen a few after market trigger shift rigs for 3rd party e-shifters for the Rohloff, but I'm worried I may have to 3D print a custom button case and cannibalize the default buttons (violating at least part of the warranty).

I've seen one photo of a kind of offset post that's clamped to the handlebar, that drops the buttons to where a human's thumb actually is. This seems like an interim solution, as it keeps the same button ring, but just moves it.

Does anyone here have any issues with the buttons for the E14, or am I just not feeling the joy?

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Does anyone here have any issues with the buttons for the E14, or am I just not feeling the joy?

Clamps …
Although I don't dislike the E-14 buttons, I am somewhat underwhelmed. I agree that there is no joy to be felt; however, I have had no problems such as missing a shift.
… David

 

[Dionigi]

From my experience the buttons are too softly dampen. This non-decisive feel is magnified when wearing gloves.

 

[Clamps]

These are the kinds of problems that trigger shifters don't have, which I guess is why those 3rd party ones I mentioned seem to use that format.

 

[Alaskan]

These are the kinds of problems that trigger shifters don't have, which I guess is why those 3rd party ones I mentioned seem to use that format.

The buttons you mentioned did not have either photos or links. Can you possibly put up a link to what you are referring to? I am familiar with the 3rd party cable shifters that work with the rear mec on a Rohloff but was unaware of other choices, particularly trigger electonic shifters that work with the e!4 mec.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

The buttons you mentioned did not have either photos or links. Can you possibly put up a link to what you are referring to? I am familiar with the 3rd party cable shifters that work with the rear mec on a Rohloff but was unaware of other choices, particularly trigger electonic shifters that work with the e!4 mec.

https://www.cyclemonkey.com/shifters/cinq5-shiftr-shifters-and-ratchet-box

They used to carry electronic shifters but not offering it anymore since E-14 has arrived.

I do agree that E-14 buttons are cheap: This is E -14

Rad Rover and a host of other chinese bikes use a display made by "King -meter" and they have the same button.
Rohloff E-14 commands such a hefty price and I wish they did justice by offering some premium, tactile feedback buttons.
You can check the King meter buttons here in this link.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Just an example below.

 

[Clamps]

That's the one. So cheap.

Anyone know of an alternative? I'd happily pay extra.

 

[Alaskan]

https://www.cyclemonkey.com/shifters/cinq5-shiftr-shifters-and-ratchet-box

They used to carry electronic shifters but not offering it anymore since E-14 has arrived.

I do agree that E-14 buttons are cheap: This is E -14

View attachment 30599

Rad Rover and a host of other chinese bikes use a display made by "King -meter" and they have the same button.
Rohloff E-14 commands such a hefty price and I wish they did justice by offering some premium, tactile feedback buttons.
You can check the King meter buttons here in this link.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Just an example below.

View attachment 30600

You mentioned, "I've seen a few after market trigger shift rigs for 3rd party e-shifters for the Rohloff". That is what I was asking to see a link to.

 

[Clamps]

Here's a link.

http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com/2016/02/tech-talk-shifter-options-for-use-with.html

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Steep Ascents & Rohloff E-14 …
Today I deliberately used the lowest gear on my Rohloff E-14 to climb up a tricky off-road 15% gradient. #1 gear was too low for my liking (that's a positive comment!) and I was soon back in #3 which resulted in a slower and more forced pedalling cadence which was rewarded by generous assistance from the motor.

And this brings me to a really useful feature of the Kiox display. On strenuous climbs I choose the Kiox's screen that displays just two 'metrics' – power and cadence. The information is clearly displayed. Actually, there is a third indicator that is important – assistance level – and this is indicated on every Kiox screen by the colour used for labelling: red (Turbo); purple (eMTB); blue (Tour); green (Eco). Brilliant: the way it should be!

The inevitable negative comment? On these tricky ascents it would be good to know what gear the Rohloff is in. Unless the Kiox is on the main screen, the only way of finding out – apart from remembering it – is by changing gear and waiting for the new gear to be displayed for just three seconds as a tiny number hidden amongst a confusion of nonsense. Oh, dearie me, what a shame!

There's a way to go before Bosch gets the E-14/Kiox partnership settled but I do so prefer the E-14 to the old mechanical version! It might have a 'cheap' switch and have received inconsistent attention to detail from Bosch, but it is definitely the Homage GX's standout feature – yes, Control Technology and Gates Carbon Drive are excellent but they are not features that one is consciously interacting with throughout a ride.
… David

 

[Alaskan]

Here's a link.

http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com/2016/02/tech-talk-shifter-options-for-use-with.html

All of those are for the mechanical shifter not the E14 shifter. The new shifter does not have cables.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Power Readouts …
Spoiler Alert: In this post Dave's all at sea and has to be rescued by Captain Alasksa who sets him right on what watt is whose watt.

One of the metrics displayed by the Kiox display is the motor's power output. Being a person fascinated by data, I tend to switch the Kiox to one its screens that displays this information – more for my amusement than for any practical purpose it must be admitted.

Generally, I pootle along with between 90 and 120 watts of assistance (almost always in eMTB mode) which is, of course, well inside of the 250 watts ('continuous rated power') that the EU-certified Performance Line CX motor is limited to.

Pushing hard on the flat or up a slight incline, the assistance level readout climbs towards, and sometimes beyond, 200 watts; however, today when I was riding a well-surfaced switchback road in what pass for mountains in these parts I was intrigued by the higher readouts.

Changing from a fast downhill swoop (65–70 km/h) to a steepish (~10%) uphill, I was caught out in too high a gear. Pushing hard on the pedals at a relatively low cadence (~65 rpm) resulted in the assistance passing 300 watts, eventually topping 435 watts before the E-14 was clicked down to gear #6 (or was it #5?).

Fifteen minutes later, I had the chance to reassess as I approached another intimidating ramp – this time at the end of a long gentle incline, so there was no excuse for being in 'too high a gear'. The readout for power delivered settled at ~330 watts and my heart rate monitor suggested curbing my enthusiasm.

As my riding is 100% recreational, these observations are of little practical value. (Or are they?) They are also no more than my quick impressions from glancing at the Kiox display.

Rides : 38 / Distance : 2502 km

 

[Alaskan]

Power Readouts …
One of the metrics displayed by the Kiox display is the motor's power output. Being a person fascinated by data, I tend to switch the Kiox to one its screens that displays this information – more for my amusement than for any practical purpose it must be admitted.

Generally, I pootle along with between 90 and 120 watts of assistance (almost always in eMTB mode) which is, of course, well inside of the 250 watts ('continuous rated power') that the EU-certified Performance Line CX motor is limited to.

Pushing hard on the flat or up a slight incline, the assistance level readout climbs towards, and sometimes beyond, 200 watts; however, today when I was riding a well-surfaced switchback road in what pass for mountains in these parts I was intrigued by the higher readouts.

Changing from a fast downhill swoop (65–70 km/h) to a steepish (~10%) uphill, I was caught out in too high a gear. Pushing hard on the pedals at a relatively low cadence (~65 rpm) resulted in the assistance passing 300 watts, eventually topping 435 watts before the E-14 was clicked down to gear #6 (or was it #5?).

Fifteen minutes later, I had the chance to reassess as I approached another intimidating ramp – this time at the end of a long gentle incline, so there was no excuse for being in 'too high a gear'. The readout for power delivered settled at ~330 watts and my heart rate monitor suggested curbing my enthusiasm.

As my riding is 100% recreational, these observations are of little practical value. (Or are they?) They are also no more than my quick impressions from glancing at the Kiox display.

Rides : 38 / Distance : 2502 km

I believe my nyon is measuring rider output in watts, not the bikes output. The kiox is likely doing the same.

 

[Alaskan]

Confirmed - "user power"

 

[Deleted member 18083]

I believe my nyon is measuring rider output in watts, not the bikes output. The kiox is likely doing the same.

I'm rescued! It's far more useful knowing my power contribution, especially when its displayed alongside pedalling cadence.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Just another day's ride …

Two-thirds of my riding is on trails like this – Homage territory! The other third is on smooth pavement – Homage territory, again.

Would the automotive equivalent of the Homage be the original Range Rover from the 1970s that so successfully melded ruggedness with luxury? They certainly did so with style and a price tag took one's breath away.

I cannot think of another ebike that is as accomplished as the Homage in both the bush and the city. Riese & Müller got the design right!
… David
Rides : 40 / Distance : 2630 km

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Control Technology : Creaking Swing Arm …
I should have mentioned this earlier but I suspected that it was a user-related problem to which I didn't wish to 'own up'.

From around 500 km until until it was attended to at the 2000 km service there was constant creaking from the swing arm pivot. This was corrected by the ebike technicians at the R&M dealer.

I was told that R&M were aware of the issue. For the moment it's a non-issue for me but, during its day in hospital, the Homage was literally pulled apart – the front separated from the rear – to attend to problem.
… David
Rides : 76 / Distance : 4802 km

 

[Alaskan]

Control Technology : Creaking Swing Arm …
I should have mentioned this earlier but I suspected that it was a user-related problem to which I didn't wish to 'own up'.

From around 500 km until until it was attended to at the 2000 km service there was constant creaking from the swing arm pivot. This was corrected by the ebike technicians at Electric Bikes Brisbane who, with the rest of the staff there, are not only thoroughly competent but also the nicest people around.

I was told that R&M were aware of the issue. For the moment it's a non-issue but the Homage was pulled apart – literally from and rear – to attend to problem.
… David
Rides : 76 / Distance : 4802 km

I have the same issue which turns out to be a known problem with the 2019 Homage. It is due to a less than precise facing of the bushing surface on the frame where the swing arm is attached. I am awaiting a special tool for my mechanic so that the bike can return to the near perfection that was intended. As it stands the bike is both irritating and embarrassing with a creek that is amplified by the resonating chamber of the big hollow down tube. What good fortune that I recently acquired a barely used (890 MIles) Delight Mountain and can ride that while I wait for the Homage to be silenced.

The Delight is such an energetic and athletic bike and I actually like the 11 speed Shimano xt 8000 Derailleur. It actually weighs less than the homage. I did install a chain ring with one more tooth on the front for an improved top end and a 11-46 tooth cassette replacing the 11-42 on the back to recover really awesome hill climbing ability. This with the speed delimiter makes it an incredibly quick and fun bike to ride with the peppy personality of a CX with the only limit at the top end being how fast I can spin. The sole down side is that greasy, messy, attention demanding chain ;(

It came with the Fox suspension upgrade and a dropper post which I have really gotten accustomed to. It also came with 2.8" Knobby Nics which sounded like a swarm of angry bees above 16mph. I have replaced them with 2.6" Smart Sams which really quiet it down on the road and give me both smooth, fast and quiet pavement ride along with grip and traction off pavement.

I really cannot say which bike I like better. Ultimately the Homage will be the pavement bike and the Delight will be the dirt road and trail bike. I am too old to start going gonzo downhill mountain biking but I do want to explore some of the logging and fire roads in the rugged North Cascade mountains just 20 miles east of our home.