Lugging a Motor, Why it's Bad

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Petaluma, CA
Well it happened again. I tell people to downshift in anticipation of slowing, to pedal lightly and quickly, like swimming with fins. Then they don't downshift, lug the motor in high gear at low speeds while clodhopping side to side. Then they destroy their drivetrains and motors. If you took your brother-in-law's manual shift Corvette and left it in high gear when launching from stops, you will kill his nice motor and transmission. Please be kind to your bike. It is your pet and your good friend. Also, the highest power level, like with a Corvette, is reserved for very short bursts. In a few moments I need to tell a guy that he killed his motor and how and why. Then I have another this afternoon at a house call to a cargo mom who forgets to downshift.
 
As just mentioned in another post, before I knew better, I thought more was better and so I put a 58-tooth chainring on a bike. That was a total disaster.
 
The main flaw in your reasoning Uma is the analogy of putting a Corvette in the high gear and leaving it so. Any manual gearbox driver puts the stick in the neutral position post and pre-ride, and starts driving from the 1st gear.

Almost no type of e-bike (except Pinion, Rohloff and perhaps Enviolo) can downshift on the stationary. Your remarks are correct. It is so sad many riders do not know the basic rules of applying the bike drivetrain.
 
The main flaw in your reasoning Uma is the analogy of putting a Corvette in the high gear and leaving it so. Any manual gearbox driver puts the stick in the neutral position post and pre-ride, and starts driving from the 1st gear.

Almost no type of e-bike (except Pinion, Rohloff and perhaps Enviolo) can downshift on the stationary. Your remarks are correct. It is so sad many riders do not know the basic rules of applying the bike drivetrain.
Many people in North America are used to driving things such a large diesel trucks with automatic transmissions. They have an expectation that an electric bike will behave the same way. If it is a good one, than it is still a bicycle. But with some supplemental assistance. Nexus and Alfine hubs can also be shifted through all gears while coasting or stopped. A good practice is to downshift while applying the brakes. Some bikes such as the Vado have a green indicator that comes on when cadence is over 70.
 
I try not to lug the motor on my 52v bafang ultra but it just wants to pull from any gear. It puts a smile on my face every time. I must be doing something right, after 1,500 mi. no chain stretch I can see on my chain checker (disclaimer, I'm sure there's some stretch but my gauge is too rudimentary to show it)
 
I try not to lug the motor on my 52v bafang ultra but it just wants to pull from any gear. It puts a smile on my face every time. I must be doing something right, after 1,500 mi. no chain stretch I can see on my chain checker (disclaimer, I'm sure there's some stretch but my gauge is too rudimentary to show it)
Very true... but do it in the right gear and it'll get you hard.
 
I wouldn't got THAT far but I know what you mean. My throttle is very sensitive. I really avoid using it but from a dead stop, even in 1st gear it wants to lift the front wheel. Actually even the pedal assist wants to lift the front wheel in 1st gear a little. I usually start out with no assist and get rolling before I add it. The bummer about a canbus bafang ultra is that there's not much I can do to smooth it out, at least not that I know of
 
I wouldn't got THAT far but I know what you mean. My throttle is very sensitive. I really avoid using it but from a dead stop, even in 1st gear it wants to lift the front wheel. Actually even the pedal assist wants to lift the front wheel in 1st gear a little. I usually start out with no assist and get rolling before I add it. The bummer about a canbus bafang ultra is that there's not much I can do to smooth it out, at least not that I know of
From what I understand there are some hacking the CANbus but I'm not sure of what you can gain or adjust. You'd have to do some homework.
With the UART I have the throttle start very timid... Literally <25watt which is the minimum resolution on the display. Great for my busted knees when I need a little help getting started, especially off road. My PAS 1 is just as gentle. I use 9 PAS instead of the 5 Eco/5 Sport mode which allows for nice gentle incremental increases.
 
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I think Pushkar sold a $1,000 miracle controller for the ultra that also added like 20% more range but I believe that also was uart. In any case, I'm quite used to my ultra and how it will react but the first few times starting w/ throttle or even pedal assist was just too much for me. Now knowing what to expect, it's manageable
 
$1,000 miracle controller
All programing can be done through the display, such as nano-seconds of overrun and degrees of crank angle attack. 3 degrees is nice. Do you want lights running, or only automatic on at dark, or manual, a torque sensor or not, throttle or not, micro-volt sensitivity to a torque sensor adjustments for dialing to Goldilocks for you? Shift sensor? How many cogs of what range to what ring? Download this user manual to see what you can do through an advanced small color display to dominate your controller, you own. Go to downloads User Manual. https://to7motor.com/product/t154-e-bike-centre-control-panel
 
I'll trade you my canbus for your uart :)
I actually have a spare UART motor... but for now I was thinking of holding on to it
I think Pushkar sold a $1,000 miracle controller for the ultra that also added like 20% more range but I believe that also was uart. In any case, I'm quite used to my ultra and how it will react but the first few times starting w/ throttle or even pedal assist was just too much for me. Now knowing what to expect, it's manageable
I believe the $1000 controller was UART.. but was also high performance adding power output not necessarily range and had its own list of issues.
If the power output is adequate I'd stick with the factory setup or switch to UART for its customization far before trying a third party one.
That said some on here are very happy with their CANbus motors. I suspect it's the younger power hungry.. but hey I was once there myself. Sometimes after you realize what you have you can make changes and adapt your habits to make it very usable. Funny example... lugging the motor by 1 gear will tame some of the aggression as this motor still has the necessary torque to accelerate acceptably... though not the most efficient.


All programing can be done through the display, such as nano-seconds of overrun and degrees of crank angle attack. 3 degrees is nice. Do you want lights running, or only automatic on at dark, or manual, a torque sensor or not, throttle or not, micro-volt sensitivity to a torque sensor adjustments for dialing to Goldilocks for you? Shift sensor? How many cogs of what range to what ring? Download this user manual to see what you can do through an advanced small color display to dominate your controller, you own. Go to downloads User Manual. https://to7motor.com/product/t154-e-bike-centre-control-panel
Most all you describe the motor in discussion can do and more when purchased in the UART version. You talk like they invented something new, but it's been done for 8+ years now. And I guarantee if he's excited about the 1000w/160Nm of torque he currently has.. he's not going to consider the mom errand runner / english professor campus cruiser bike and motor you're all hard over. I myself do appreciate them, but I'd also never own one. And yeah it's definitely some improvement over what's been available in the DIY realm.. but that's not for everyone as is the lower power you feel is adequate. If I did another build I'd definitely consider the DM02, but having been there, done that... I'm really liking the Intergrated large battery which is non existent in the DIY world. Last weeks 40 mile ride with a lot of hills and a nice stretch of off road was easily done and with plenty to spare. With one of your cute little bottle batteries I would have been left miles from home yanking my chain.
So please... Stop being a Stefan. 🙃
 
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Stop being a Stefan. 🙃
Okay, I have a moment to get back to you. I had to run out and was not being dismissive. With Toseven displays that can have throttles plugged into them - advanced programing is blocked. I have been given these codes because I will be working building a couple of disabled person bikes and have gained trust over time that these bikes will be lawful and safe and will not be doing wheelies down sidewalks, or frying motors with 40 amps. So, I do make throttle bikes! I also make class 3 bikes that do 28. I am ordering a battery with 50 cells this week. That is big for me. It is not like a 20 cell bottle battery. It is going on a senior trike. So, I sometimes use big batteries when that is proportional for the application.
 
That said some on here are very happy with their CANbus motors. I suspect it's the younger power hungry.. but hey I was once there myself. Sometimes after you realize what you have you can make changes and adapt your habits to make it very usable. Funny example... lugging the motor by 1 gear will tame some of the aggression as this motor still has the necessary torque to accelerate acceptably... though not the most efficient.
I’m 57 so I’m not sure if I’m young…… or just young at heart. Yes I love power and speed. I’m certainly very happy with my 60v Canbus Ultra motor on my Frey Beast which is quite well behaved. It does run a 28A controller rather than the typical 30A controller, yet the importer quotes it as having 240nm of torque on their webpage. I’m assuming more volts and less amps makes for a more efficient motor with less heat that will last for many years to come.

I run a 48T chainring for less use of the smaller cogs, better chainline and for less shifting on the 12 speed cassette. Despite the bigger chainring I do love to spin the cranks for some exercise plus I also find this motor performs its best at higher cadences. I have removed the throttle to clean up the cockpit and as I wasn’t using it anyway.
 
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I really don't see the need for throttle, at least with the ultra motor. I guess some like to start off from a dead stop with it. I'd also like to fit a 48T chainring. Mine is 44T and my cadence is pretty high at 25mph. Not sure if it would clear the chain stay and I'm having a hard time finding a good steel one along with the spider to fit. I did buy a 6 dollar 48T chainring that was of such poor quality it immediately got tossed out.
 
I'm using an alloy Wolf Tooth chainring, which bolts up to the stock Ultra spider. I’m at circa 2,500 klms for the chainring, chain (SRAM GX) and cassette (SRAM NX 11-50) with no problems (Shifter and derailleur are GX).

I guess the larger diameter chainring is spreading the load over more teeth so the alloy vs steel argument becomes less relevant? From memory Woof Tooth have chainring sizes on their website so you can work out if it will fit.
 
Another Pashley Prospero will be arriving from England for me to convert. That customer is putting in the order today. It is getting custom rims, fenders, and a custom paint job, Amethyst, in other words it is purple. Nobody has a bike like that. I will paint the motor, chainguard, and cranks. The lady has money and likes purple.
 
I’m 57 so I’m not sure if I’m young…… or just young at heart. Yes I love power and speed. I’m certainly very happy with my 60v Canbus Ultra motor on my Frey Beast which is quite well behaved. It does run a 28A controller rather than the typical 30A controller, yet the importer quotes it as having 240nm of torque on their webpage. I’m assuming more volts and less amps makes for a more efficient motor with less heat that will last for many years to come.

I run a 48T chainring for less use of the smaller cogs, better chainline and for less shifting on the 12 speed cassette. Despite the bigger chainring I do love to spin the cranks for some exercise plus I also find this motor performs its best at higher cadences. I have removed the throttle to clean up the cockpit and as I wasn’t using it anyway.
Awesome bike and aptly named... and don't think I didn't day dream about that for a moment myself. But reality is that I would never use that bike these days to it's potential so I went more suited to my actual riding. Good to hear that it's programmed better than the standard CANbus motors as there's been more than a few complaints on here and some have even gone through the process of converting to UART.
That said I do love the personal customization of the UART motors. You can tweak power output/acceleration curve as you desire and each PAS does exactly what I want. I ride mostly for exercise so trimming it's stock aggressive delivery in lower PAS makes for a much more natural feel. But you still have the power when you want/need... so there's no downside.

I really don't see the need for throttle, at least with the ultra motor. I guess some like to start off from a dead stop with it. I'd also like to fit a 48T chainring. Mine is 44T and my cadence is pretty high at 25mph. Not sure if it would clear the chain stay and I'm having a hard time finding a good steel one along with the spider to fit. I did buy a 6 dollar 48T chainring that was of such poor quality it immediately got tossed out.
Dude you're still struggling with the chainring?!?! Well if you went 48t that would add some load to the motor.. and with the same results as I suggested starting one gear up.
As for the $6 chainring.. You should have at the very least used it to test fitment as it works with the stock spider.
The 44t one I bought now has 2250 US MILES on it without a single drop and without a sound. The chain has 2500 MILES on it and the chain guage 0.75 side still sits on its tip. I have a brand new steel Bafang 44t ring.. but I see no reason to fix what ain't broke. But who knows maybe, the 48t rings had a production flaw. Wanna laugh.. Since the tariffs many sellers stop selling it and those that are want >$25 for it now.
But here again is why I like the programmability. Since my low PAS are tame for exercise I found the larger rings were also more tiring as sometimes downshiftting took me out of a cadence sweet spot. So adding a few watts to each lower PAS made it/me behave as it did with the 40t ring.

Another Pashley Prospero will be arriving from England for me to convert. That customer is putting in the order today. It is getting custom rims, fenders, and a custom paint job, Amethyst, in other words it is purple. Nobody has a bike like that. I will paint the motor, chainguard, and cranks. The lady has money and likes purple.
This is why I break your balls!! 🙃
The Amethyst color is available on the Pashley website... So anyone that can click a mouse can order it.
And some how a higher capacity battery for a handicap trike just isn't the same as one for a long hilly ride with off road excursions.
You put together some really nice bikes..but you don't understand it's for a bit of a niche market. So drop the car salesman approach with the "it's better than anything made" and "it's the only one like it in the world" bullshit. Most of us aren't nice ladies with deep pockets blinded by childhood color schemes.
 
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Maybe the cheap aluminum got bent in shipping, I don't know but it wasn't going on the bike, it was not a narrow/wide chainring but many teeth differed from each other. Actually it was comical but what does one expect for 6 bucks, it might have been LESS, I don't remember. I see the wolf tooth chainrings are like 70-80 dollars. I know spending more doesn't always mean better quality but in this case, I hope that's true, I may order one
 
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