Getting What You Need From a Cycling GPS

...Does not work with ANT+ e-bikes.

sort of. as i understand (could be wrong!) it doesn't support the "e-bike" field/parameter type, but it WOULD work with the cadence, power, and speed outputs of a specialized e-bike, which are totally industry standard and not e-bike specific. i use the creo output with other ANT+ devices that know nothing about e-bike field.

if the "fake channel" were still supported, you could also get remaining battery in lieu of one of those channels if desired, but they've smartly killed off that confusing feature.

so it depends what data you want. if top priority is having battery life on your cycling computer, not a good choice. doesn't matter to me since it's also shown on the top tube, mission control, etc, but i also don't use battery intensively.

on the slow startup, that would drive me mad, and is a major reason i avoid android devices of all types, to be honest. i've had a few android based custom handheld devices (like the DJI crystalsky drone controller) and the experience is so terrible i have sworn off all of them. i didn't realize the karoo suffered from this.
 
sort of. as i understand (could be wrong!) it doesn't support the "e-bike" field/parameter type, but it WOULD work with the cadence, power, and speed outputs of a specialized e-bike, which are totally industry standard and not e-bike specific. i use the creo output with other ANT+ devices that know nothing about e-bike field.

if the "fake channel" were still supported, you could also get remaining battery in lieu of one of those channels if desired, but they've smartly killed off that confusing feature.

so it depends what data you want. if top priority is having battery life on your cycling computer, not a good choice. doesn't matter to me since it's also shown on the top tube, mission control, etc, but i also don't use battery intensively.
Several months ago Hammerhead wrote to me in a comment on his site the Karoo 2 did not support e-bikes.
 
Several months ago Hammerhead wrote to me in a comment on his site the Karoo 2 did not support e-bikes.

there's no way to tell that it's even an e-bike from specialized's ANT+ output, at least on the SL bikes. it's a completely generic, industry standard output of the cadence, power, and speed.

MANY creo riders use the karoo.

but no battery indication.
 
it's a completely generic, industry standard output of the cadence, power, and speed.
So it might be interesting for you to learn Wahoo computers (or, at least the Bolt v2) do not "see" individual sensors. It is a single sensor called "e-bike". (The things are different for Garmin Edge computers).
 
So it might be interesting for you to learn Wahoo computers (or, at least the Bolt v2) do not "see" individual sensors. It is a single sensor called "e-bike". (The things are different for Garmin Edge computers).
i am guessing that if they “see” the e-bike they ignore all the other sensors? when looking at the sensor choices which my creo broadcasts, there is the e-bike one but also cadence, power, and speed. obviously the wahoo computers work perfectly with non e-bikes, which broadcast under the exact same profiles as an SL bike does for power and so on.
 
i am guessing that if they “see” the e-bike they ignore all the other sensors? when looking at the sensor choices which my creo broadcasts, there is the e-bike one but also cadence, power, and speed. obviously the wahoo computers work perfectly with non e-bikes, which broadcast under the exact same profiles as an SL bike does for power and so on.
With Bolt v2, the e-bike is identified by "E-Bike" sensor. With Roam, you can see the "traditional" e-bike sensors in addition to the "E-Bike" but you do not need to use them (it would be counter-productive and confusing). For both computers, equipping a traditional bike with separate sensors allows using any of the sensors (or all) in more traditional way. No sensors? Wahoo becomes a traditional bike computer.

Wahoo ELEMNT is relatively a new thing and the software is neat and clean. I would say the brand did their homework in relation to e-bikes.
 
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One of versions of my Wahoo Roam configuration, the Workout page. Range Extender charge level is shown separately from the main battery.

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The current configuration of the Workout page of my Bolt v2.

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Wahoo does not need using other sensors than the "E-Bike". My configuration for Roam includes three e-bikes (two Specialized, and one Giant) and a HR monitor.

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Where has the Odometer information come from? :)
 
I know I’m supposed to look all this stuff up, but please give a brother a break, folks. 20 years of writing data systems by myself or with one other guy has burned me right off of computers!

Question of the day is will one of these new Edge Explore 2 gizmos display Specialized data - most importantly cadence, but also battery, assist level and maybe some power numbers? Or maybe a Wahoo Roam? I think I see above that Stefan has it laid out on his Bolt.

Still on my phone with Ride With GPS - love the app, but can’t see a damn thing in the sun on the phone and the battery life is killing me.

Still have to acknowledge that I have yet to see a review of any bike computer that runs the display without all the jerkiness of a Space Invaders game. RWGPS just flows, changes in direction are smooth as can be.

Thanks, I know some of you fine people have these things and have figured them out.
 
I cannot say for the Explore 2. The older version could not display the rider's power figures.

Any Garmin Edge: 530, 830 or 1030 Plus is fully e-bike compatible. Wahoo ELEMNT Bolt v2 (the current one) or Roam are compatible and (similarly to Garmin Edge) can provide these e-bike specific fields:
  • LEV Travel mode (OFF, ECO, SPORT, TURBO, SMART)
  • LEV Battery (including Range Extender)
  • LEV Range (only working for Giant e-bikes and Mastermind Specialized ones)
  • Cadence
  • Rider's Power (Bolt can only report current power, Roam has more power options).
As long as the e-bike is powered on, the speed and distance for Wahoo are taken from the e-bike (you need to give Wheel Circumference first). In case the bike power is totally off, GPS is used.

Regarding RideWithGPS, I am a subscriber, and use the app for route planning only. It is fantastic to see a route transferred in seconds from either your PC or RWGPS app to a Wahoo. If I need the simplest (but still bike friendly) route from A to B, I just start ELEMNT Companion App, select Take Me To... and the new route is instantly transferred to a Wahoo.
On my recent 135 km ride, I used a RWGPS route (PC) transferred to the Wahoo on the outbound leg of the trip. For the return trip, I quickly planned the route with RWGPS app, and made the route pretty fancy (ELEMNT Companion App would have just selected the shortest safe route).
 
I am far from a Luddite, but have found absolutely zero need for bike computers, stand-alone GPS, health data harvesting, etc. I get that these things are important to many, that they do add to safety, and they can be entertainment or just plain fun. For some, they are an essential means of monitoring health, which can never be understated. I choose to pass on all of this and just enjoy the ride and adventure.

I use OSMAnd on my phone and OpenStreetMaps on my computer for planning - more accurately, scouting. But to me, riding is a chance to tune out all of the noise we're subjected to, and engage in micro-adventures and enjoy the moment. Wonder where this street goes? Wonder what's down that trail? If things don't look promising or get too difficult, it's trivial to turn around - and my satisfied curiosity is plenty enough. I am always willing to stop and look at the map to try and find some place to go and explore, or figure out where the hell I am.

The only metrics I care about are mileage and battery usage/life. Both of my ebikes provide that. My phone screen, when I do mount it on the handlebars, is off after the first 2 minutes of my ride. I look at the ride data when finished, then never look again.

I recently read an essay on de-digitizing, and that struck a nerve. We've become so damn dependent on being always connected, monitoring ourselves and others (and letting others monitor us), checking for feedback or standing and/or likes etc, that we miss so many things that are right in front of us as we try to optimize our behavior. Coupled with the data harvesting and sale of our personal data for marketing etc, de-digitizing is very compelling. (And as someone w/ +30 yrs in IT, it's a simple fact we have no control over our own data and can take assurances of privacy and security with a grain of salt.)

Were I religiously committed to working out and seeing progress, then yes. Should my health detriorate and I need to be more vigilant, count me in. If I start going out on long adventures into areas I don't know or have no mobile coverage, I'd likely buy another InReach or other satellite-based communication device (I had one and used it for offroading, but sold it). Otherwise, I'm going to ride, observe, listen, sniff, explore, and come home sweaty, tired, and satisfied.
 
I am far from a Luddite, but have found absolutely zero need for bike computers, stand-alone GPS, health data harvesting, etc. I get that these things are important to many, that they do add to safety, and they can be entertainment or just plain fun. For some, they are an essential means of monitoring health, which can never be understated. I choose to pass on all of this and just enjoy the ride and adventure.

I use OSMAnd on my phone and OpenStreetMaps on my computer for planning - more accurately, scouting. But to me, riding is a chance to tune out all of the noise we're subjected to, and engage in micro-adventures and enjoy the moment. Wonder where this street goes? Wonder what's down that trail? If things don't look promising or get too difficult, it's trivial to turn around - and my satisfied curiosity is plenty enough. I am always willing to stop and look at the map to try and find some place to go and explore, or figure out where the hell I am.

The only metrics I care about are mileage and battery usage/life. Both of my ebikes provide that. My phone screen, when I do mount it on the handlebars, is off after the first 2 minutes of my ride. I look at the ride data when finished, then never look again.

I recently read an essay on de-digitizing, and that struck a nerve. We've become so damn dependent on being always connected, monitoring ourselves and others (and letting others monitor us), checking for feedback or standing and/or likes etc, that we miss so many things that are right in front of us as we try to optimize our behavior. Coupled with the data harvesting and sale of our personal data for marketing etc, de-digitizing is very compelling. (And as someone w/ +30 yrs in IT, it's a simple fact we have no control over our own data and can take assurances of privacy and security with a grain of salt.)

Were I religiously committed to working out and seeing progress, then yes. Should my health detriorate and I need to be more vigilant, count me in. If I start going out on long adventures into areas I don't know or have no mobile coverage, I'd likely buy another InReach or other satellite-based communication device (I had one and used it for offroading, but sold it). Otherwise, I'm going to ride, observe, listen, sniff, explore, and come home sweaty, tired, and satisfied.

I can’t and won’t disagree with your sentiments. It is a personal choice. They are definitely not for everyone and for many they would be an unnecessary luxury or even a toy. My point of view and circumstances may be different than yours.

I have sailed and kayaked all over the Maine coast with nothing more than a chart, compass and triangles. A GPS would have been nice to have, especially in dense fog. It would also have been nice the time that a friend and I were lost over New York State late one night in 1987 in his old 1956 Cessna 310, (a twin engine like the one in “Sky King”, yeah, I am dating myself). The plane was set up with “state of the art” nav radios, but we had an electrical issue and the instruments had to stay blacked out. We zig zagged across the state for more than 1/2 hour before my friend spotted Saratoga Lake, (still about 30 miles off course), and we were able to head from there to Schenectady. Long story over, that adventure could have ended very differently. We were low on fuel by then and the older Cessna 310s had a high stall speed and even higher minimum maneuvering speed and tall, weak landing gear making a field landing extremely dangerous. A GPS sure would have been nice to have back then.

For me, riding in rural New Hampshire and Vermont, a phone is not a good option because of spotty service. I generally use Google Maps to roughly map out my “course” or I can save a previous ride as a course. The area that I ride varies from hills to mountains and many back roads have portions with 20% grades. We also have many back roads that go from paved to dirt/gravel to logging road to trail, but are still marked as a through road. You can also end up in a place where the land owners are very protective and some have dogs that are unfriendly and untethered. Around here, you could quickly find yourself in a place that is difficult to retreat from.

Another nice aspect of the navigation is that it takes a lot of anxiety out or riding. There are many times that I ride without using the navigation features, but they are nice to have when you find yourself in a place that you do not want to ride back out of or if the weather has changed and you want to find a quick way out.

Most days, my Garmin is just a nice cyclometer that can be easily moved from one bike to another and provides lots of data during and after the ride, (with a rear facing Varia radar unit to warn me of traffic coming from behind). Other days it is a device that can help me to follow a predetermined course or find a good way out of a bad spot. It will also alert me of hazards on my course and give me warnings such as heat advisories, steep grades, tight turns or storm warnings.

I have never felt that having it has taken anything away from my riding experience. I use, but don’t obsess over the data. I don’t get fixated on the screen while riding. It has provided added safety and lessened anxiety, so for me, it is there when I “need” it and unobtrusive when I don’t.

Having been a pilot, sailor, sea kayaker and motorcyclist for many years, I have learned that an adventure is just another word for a poorly planned trip, (I actually borrowed that quote from an Air Force pilot friend, but I think that it applies). I have had enough adventure for several lifetimes. I do enjoy the surprises along a new route, but having a tool or instrument that can keep me and more importantly my wife out of danger as much as possibly is invaluable, (it is one thing for me to risk my safety, but quite another to put someone else at risk). Basically, the technology is there when I want it, and unobtrusive when I don’t feel that I need it.
 
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Another nice aspect of the navigation is that it takes a lot of anxiety out or riding.
Your words are very right.

I cannot understand how anyone could go on a long adventure trip without reliable navigation. And how in the world could such a person plan the battery use on a long trip?
Well if someone is setting off for a 20 mi ride in a familiar area, let them ride without navigation. Otherwise, it is just asking for returning on the pedal power (which typically would be upwind/uphill).

I often ride gravel with cycling clubs. Everyone sane in the group has a bike GPS running with the same GPX course file; it would not be possible to follow the group in the case of losing the contact with other people, which is a norm.

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February 12th, 2022. A big group gravel ride. The group broke soon into solo riders and very small groups. It would not be possible to make the ride without GPS navigation.

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March 5th, 2022. Another big group ride. The group has completely split, and strong riders found themselves far forward. I was following the course, and to my big surprise, I caught up with the leaders somewhere in the forest.
 
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I'm still, technology-wise, stuck somewhere in the 1980's. Think Rand McNally folding state maps. At least they are waterproof with a nice, clear plastic coating.

But after doing what ended up being a 95 mile bike ride, using just 2 500wh batteries, my getting lost in the blueberry farm fields of somewhere in or near Hammonton, New Jersey, convinced me once and for all to get a bicycle GPS and learn how to use it. It's a bad feeling being totally lost, you are running on your second battery and you know you are at least 40 miles from home.

Right at this second, the newly arrived Garmin Edge 830 is being charged by my laptop....
 
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I'm still, technology-wise, stuck somewhere in the 1980's. Think Rand McNally folding state maps. At least they are waterproof with a nice, clear plastic coating.

But after doing what ended up being a 95 mile bike ride, using just 2 500wh batteries, my getting lost in the blueberry farm fields of somewhere in or near Hammonton, New Jersey, convinced me once and for all to get a bicycle GPS and learn how to use it. It's a bad feeling being totally lost, you are running on your second battery and you know you are at least 40 miles from home.

Right at this second, the newly arrived Garmin Edge 830 is being charged by my laptop....
Nice choice. I should have done that instead of the 530. Looking forward to see how you get on with it.
 
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Subscribed.

I'm still, technology-wise, stuck somewhere in the 1980's. Think Rand McNally folding state maps. At least they are waterproof with a nice, clear plastic coating.

But after doing what ended up being a 95 mile bike ride, using just 2 500wh batteries, my getting lost in the blueberry farm fields of somewhere in or near Hammonton, New Jersey, convinced me once and for all to get a bicycle GPS and learn how to use it. It's a bad feeling being totally lost, you are running on your second battery and you know you are at least 40 miles from home.

Right at this second, the newly arrived Garmin Edge 830 is being charged by my laptop....

Subscribed.

I'm still, technology-wise, stuck somewhere in the 1980's. Think Rand McNally folding state maps. At least they are waterproof with a nice, clear plastic coating.

But after doing what ended up being a 95 mile bike ride, using just 2 500wh batteries, my getting lost in the blueberry farm fields of somewhere in or near Hammonton, New Jersey, convinced me once and for all to get a bicycle GPS and learn how to use it. It's a bad feeling being totally lost, you are running on your second battery and you know you are at least 40 miles from home.

Right at this second, the newly arrived Garmin Edge 830 is being charged by my laptop....

I think that you will wonder how you got along without it. Mine is the 830 and after three years with it, I have no complaints. There is no shortage of YouTube tutorials. The unit itself is pretty intuitive and the Garmin Connect App is a great tool as well.

Please share your opinion after you spend a little time with it.
 
I think that you will wonder how you got along without it. Mine is the 830 and after three years with it, I have no complaints. There is no shortage of YouTube tutorials. The unit itself is pretty intuitive and the Garmin Connect App is a great tool as well.

Please share your opinion after you spend a little time with it.
Thank you, @Djangodog, will do!
 
I can’t and won’t disagree with your sentiments. It is a personal choice. They are definitely not for everyone and for many they would be an unnecessary luxury or even a toy. My point of view and circumstances may be different than yours.

...

Having been a pilot, sailer, sea kayaker and motorcyclist for many years, I have learned that an adventure is just another word for a poorly planned trip, (I actually borrowed that quote form an Air Force pilot friend, but I think that it applies). I have had enough adventure for several lifetimes. I do enjoy the surprises along a new route, but having a tool or instrument that can keep me and more importantly my wife out of danger as much as possibly is invaluable, (it is one thing for me to risk my safety, but quite another to put someone else at risk). Basically, the technology is there when I want it, and unobtrusive when I don’t feel that I need it.
And I have complete respect for your position on this! When you say our circumstances may be different, that is the crux of it all.

I'd also say we have different ideas of adventure. Your flight story is not something I'd ever want to experience, and knowing you 2 survived it is fantastic (bet you laugh about it on occasion now?) - not my idea of an adventure though! My idea of adventure on my bike is going down trails, streets, dirt roads I don't know. O and I'm not doing 50-100 mi rides in unknown areas (hope to some day), so adventuring is limited to suburbia, semi-rural and dirt roads, greenways, and state parks/forests nearby.

Getting offtopic, but adventure is a fun topic to me. When COVID kept us all at home or limited in what we could do, I really caught on to this idea of micro-adventures - generally, hiking or biking places just to experience something new or different for a few hours. In the annals of history, none of my adventures will ever be remembered or even recorded, and I am at complete peace with that. :)
 
Subscribed.

I'm still, technology-wise, stuck somewhere in the 1980's. Think Rand McNally folding state maps. At least they are waterproof with a nice, clear plastic coating.

But after doing what ended up being a 95 mile bike ride, using just 2 500wh batteries, my getting lost in the blueberry farm fields of somewhere in or near Hammonton, New Jersey, convinced me once and for all to get a bicycle GPS and learn how to use it. It's a bad feeling being totally lost, you are running on your second battery and you know you are at least 40 miles from home.

Right at this second, the newly arrived Garmin Edge 830 is being charged by my laptop....
Haha! I just got the Garmin 830 too, and it's charging right now. It was either that or the Explore 2, but from what I read the 830 is better for Strava Live Segments and ClimbPro, so went with the 830.
 
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