Best bike for long distance touring?

[Weaselander]

Not really an expert either, but it looks like the Niner boost fork would be a great option to help convert the UCP into a Touring bike. "The rack mounts midway up the fork legs can support up to 55lbs for your out-there adventures."

NINER BOOST RDO MTB FORK

 

[pushkar]

Not really an expert either, but it looks like the Niner boost fork would be a great option to help convert the UCP into a Touring bike. "The rack mounts midway up the fork legs can support up to 55lbs for your out-there adventures."

NINER BOOST RDO MTB FORK

Yup. We did our current design and forks so we could interchange them with Niner in case someone wanted it. Those are amazing forks - excellent performance.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Ha. Clearly a noob here.

i have not done touring or anywhere close to that. How about a front rack like the RMs Up to say 20lb. Will that work in addition to the low rider racks ?

That is one really popular configuration, to be sure. With a rack like this (note the u-shaped "tombstone") you can carry a big hatbox-sized "rando bag":

Randonneur Front Rack, Cantilever

This is a stainless steel front rack that is perfect for a handlebar bag, tied-down dry bag, or basket.

velo-orange.com

2019 Merlin Randonneur Bag

Swift takes the classic French handlebar bag design and pairs it with modern textiles to bring you the lightest traditional randonneur bags on the market. The Merlin Rando bag is installed at the f…

builtbyswift.com

Those "rando bags" are basically like giant handlebar bags. My handlebar bag carries about 6L and mounts with a Kliickfix adapter for a quick release. The Rando bags can be as big as 15-18L and are just huge.

Ideally a touring bike fork should support four racking configurations:

1. Low-riders for carrying panniers
2. Rando-style rack with a tombstone or decailer hardware to carry big rando bags.
3. Carry a basket like a wald-137 and go basketpacking
4. Have the extra-large three-bolt bottle cage mounts and carry great tankards of water or gear in "anything cages"

Here is a video about a "front load bias" touring carry:

 

[FlatSix911]

Actually in Europe there are a couple of touring e-bikes that come closer to the ideal.

This thread discusses several that aren't yet available in the States.

This beautiful e-bike hits nearly all of my requirements. The fact that you can run 650b or 700c wheels (although how you switch out the hub motor is a heck of a question) is also most awesome. Nice racking and most of the touch points are well done. You could make it perfect with on-bike dual batteries and butterfly handlebars or jones bars.

A beautiful combination of design and technology...

 

[pushkar]

That is one really popular configuration, to be sure. With a rack like this (note the u-shaped "tombstone") you can carry a big hatbox-sized "rando bag":

Randonneur Front Rack, Cantilever

This is a stainless steel front rack that is perfect for a handlebar bag, tied-down dry bag, or basket.

velo-orange.com

2019 Merlin Randonneur Bag

Swift takes the classic French handlebar bag design and pairs it with modern textiles to bring you the lightest traditional randonneur bags on the market. The Merlin Rando bag is installed at the f…

builtbyswift.com

Those "rando bags" are basically like giant handlebar bags. My handlebar bag carries about 6L and mounts with a Kliickfix adapter for a quick release. The Rando bags can be as big as 15-18L and are just huge.

Ideally a touring bike fork should support four racking configurations:

1. Low-riders for carrying panniers
2. Rando-style rack with a tombstone or decailer hardware to carry big rando bags.
3. Carry a basket like a wald-137 and go basketpacking
4. Have the extra-large three-bolt bottle cage mounts and carry great tankards of water or gear in "anything cages"

Here is a video about a "front load bias" touring carry:

Excellent stuff. You guys are AWESOME.

Tell you what - If there is someone interested in trying out these configs, I am happy to build one with the niner boost fork, and loan out for a month or two. Just ride as much as you can, take pictures, post it on EBR, give me feedback to improve. No Charge for the bike (Umm.. i will take a Fully refundable deposit), just pay the to and from shipping cost.

Please PM me if you are interested, with your frame size, couple of lines about what you intend to do - what trip you plan to take and I can make this happen.

 

[pushkar]

A beautiful combination of design and technology...

View attachment 45183

This looks suspiciously similar - cant place where I have seen something like this before

 

[FlatSix911]

This looks suspiciously similar - cant place where I have seen something like this before

You are absolutely right... and have taken it to the next level with a Mid-drive Titanium frame!

Watt Wagons - World Record Setting E-bikes Built in USA

Watt Wagons makes the Hydra, Helios, and Pulse! The new generation of automotive grade, nearly maintenance free e-bikes right here in USA. Powered by Bafang motors and Custom Controllers.

wattwagons.com

 

[webcurl]

Anyone tried this expensive front suspension fork system:

Front Fork Mounts

AEROE FORK MOUNTS: A set of 2 mounts, ideal for carrying 9LT or 11L BikePacks up front. Low centre of gravity. Can be mounted forward or behind front forks for best balance. The unique aeroe attachment system, requires the silicon coated tension straps to be tightened up to a maximum...

aeroe.com

as apposed to: https://www.thule.com/en-us/bike-accessories/rear-bike-racks/thule-tour-rack-_-100090
It seems to not be as "comfortable" on the Stanchion? as the Thule strap wraps around it in a round fashion whereas the Aeroe seems like it has 2 rounded pressure points.
But of course the Faiv Hoogar i imagine would be the best: https://faiv.de/fahrrad/gepaecktraeger-hoogar/
Pushkar, maybe look into teaming up with a EU supplier to get these from the EU as they don't ship outside the EU. Phew

 

[Over50]

That is one really popular configuration, to be sure. With a rack like this (note the u-shaped "tombstone") you can carry a big hatbox-sized "rando bag"

I had Tern's Spartan Rack on one of my Terns. Was really useful for carrying the Ortlieb Sport Packers. Minimalist rack but very practical for small panniers:

 

[webcurl]

I also can't understand why some company can't design & build a rear rack that has a pivot near the seat anchor point and a small travel spring both sides at the bottom rear wheel anchor point near the axle or on the axle. A bit of suspension for your gear which in turn reduces stresses on your bike!

 

[FlatSix911]

Anyone tried this expensive front suspension fork system:

Front Fork Mounts

AEROE FORK MOUNTS: A set of 2 mounts, ideal for carrying 9LT or 11L BikePacks up front. Low centre of gravity. Can be mounted forward or behind front forks for best balance. The unique aeroe attachment system, requires the silicon coated tension straps to be tightened up to a maximum...

aeroe.com

A very interesting design... I like the low center of mass mounting points on the front fork.

 

[webcurl]

A very interesting design... I like the low center of mass.

View attachment 45533 View attachment 45534

Yes i agree but 3 potential problems:
1) Price
2) The way it attaches to the fork
3) Being a product for bike packers they don't mention what their parts weigh!

 

[Beardystarstuff]

But, I can definitely see that the Rad Bike is an entry level bike, that probably won't be much more than a fun bike for around town in the long run.

This is an interesting thread. Of course, if the spectrum of bikes ranges from $800 to $9,000 then I guess $1,500 is entry level. Given the title of the thread is based on “Best”, that also implies higher cost. That said, not everyone can afford $9,000 or $4,000. But it’s worth noting, I think, that even a $1,500 Rad bike is capable of packing up some gear and going out for a trip. Not everyone will be in regions with mountains, extended steep terrain, and the roughest of conditions.

My use case with a Rad Rover. I’m in rural southeast Missouri. It’s not flat. My 30+ mile rides on rough pavement and gravel have me on several 10% hills each ride. Not super steep and not for miles of hill. My daily rides usually have an elevation gain/loss of about 1,800 to 2,000 feet, so, not flat. Given I’m easily getting 30+ miles per ride I suspect that with just a bit of effort at a slower PAS 1&2 rather than 2&3 I could stretch that to 45 or even 50 miles with one battery. If I add in a second battery my rover has a range of 80 to 100 miles. In my part of the country I would think this might mean that I could go out with 60 lbs of gear (40 on the back with battery), 20 on the front rack. Were I to be in a position to take a week or two for a cycling tour through several nearby counties focused on gravel and paved rural county roads similar to those I ride daily, I think that this bike would have no problem doing that.

I guess I’m just considering the context of a $1,500 bike compared to $8,000 and trying to find the difference assuming the possibility that a lot of fantastic touring is possible in regions that are not extreme. Better brakes? The motor? Battery/range? Gearing? Water resistance? In the Rover’s granny gear I’ve had absolutely no problem riding up 10% grade hills. I’ve had no problem braking on any hill. So, maybe the key difference is one’s region and expected terrain?

 

[opimax]

Reliability, include ease of getting repairs and planning for anything or not planning at all require more of a go anywhere bike. Some may argue some of the higher end bikes are more comfortable due to higher quality components will matter when riding more hours and daily

I rode the Katy trail in MO on a pretty cheap accoustic for 5 days. By the end I could not sit the last day struggled in pain but made it to the meeting point for my ride home I had planned a day at the casino as my reward, didn’t go too uncomfortable. I know have 400$ of just seat and posts , a front suspension , quality tires and other things I had not known of to make a better ride.

if you have a route planned you won’t deviate too much from and your bike can do this by design it doesn’t have to be expensive bike. Proprietary parts could be an issue

 

[Beardystarstuff]

Reliability, include ease of getting repairs and planning for anything or not planning at all require more of a go anywhere bike. Some may argue some of the higher end bikes are more comfortable due to higher quality components will matter when riding more hours and daily

I rode the Katy trail in MO on a pretty cheap accoustic for 5 days. By the end I could not sit the last day struggled in pain but made it to the meeting point for my ride home I had planned a day at the casino as my reward, didn’t go too uncomfortable. I know have 400$ of just seat and posts , a front suspension , quality tires and other things I had not known of to make a better ride.

Just for kicks I took a quick look at the Watt Wagon Touring bike as it was mentioned in the thread. Certainly a beautiful bike if one can afford it. But just to take some of the premium upgrades and add them to the Rover with a second battery:

• Molotov Bar: $95
• Ergin GP5 Grips: $70
• Brooks C17: $80
• Kinekt Seat Post $250
• Extra Battery: $550 672Wh x 2= 1,344Wh

Total upgrades: $1,045 which puts the Rover at $2,500. These would address some of the possible comfort issues.

That doesn’t include racks for the Rover which would obviously be needed. It also does not address many of the other benefits of the WattWagon (custom size titanium frame, better tires, wheels, drivetrain, brakes, forks). Maybe those differences add up to $5000 but for someone on a budget it may not matter. Certainly a custom frame is a big feature of the WattWagon. But I’m having no problem with comfort at 35 miles a day. Certainly 70 or a hundred miles would be different to some degree. Longer rides, different terrain, etc would all be variables to consider.

As for reliability of other parts, the Rover (any many other bikes in that range) use pretty standard parts in the drivetrain, wheels, brakes, etc. Nothing too special other than the battery and motors and from what I’ve read there are no serious problems with those. Again, this assumes one is not dunking the bike in a body of water.

 

[webcurl]

Just for kicks I took a quick look at the Watt Wagon Touring bike as it was mentioned in the thread. Certainly a beautiful bike if one can afford it. But just to take some of the premium upgrades and add them to the Rover with a second battery:

That doesn’t include racks for the Rover which would obviously be needed. It also does not address many of the other benefits of the WattWagon (custom size titanium frame, better tires, wheels, drivetrain, brakes, forks). Maybe those differences add up to $5000 but for someone on a budget it may not matter. Certainly a custom frame is a big feature of the WattWagon. But I’m having no problem with comfort at 35 miles a day. Certainly 70 or a hundred miles would

You failed to mention one of the biggest features of the Watt Wagon and that is the Rohloff IGH with Gates CDX Belt, these things are not cheap. Research the reliability of those important parts.
And, once you've ridden a Rohloff with Gates belt (especially non-E14), you never want to go back!

 

[Beardystarstuff]

You failed to mention one of the biggest features of the Watt Wagon and that is the Rohloff IGH with Gates CDX Belt, these things are not cheap. Research the reliability of those important parts.
And, once you've ridden a Rohloff with Gates belt (especially non-E14), you never want to go back!

I mentioned it when I referred to the drivetrain.

And I agree, not cheap and an important part of the bike. BUT, and it’s a big BUT, when discussing riding within a budget, such a drivetrain, while nice for those that can afford it, should at least be discussed as not necessary. In other words, My Rover with it’s cheaper chain, derailleur, and 8 sprockets and geared hub still may prove VERY reliable in most or all of the conditions I experience.

But seriously, it’s not that I want to pretend that the difference isn’t there, but to offer the context that for many riders the difference will be irrelevant based on how and where they are riding. I’d hate to think of people who think that they can’t do a week-long tour on their $1,500 bike because it doesn’t have a premium belt drivetrain Or the best tires or best shocks, etc. Best is best, but often times dependable quality and very useable bikes come in a much less expensive package.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

@Beardystarstuff ,

For relatively short (5-6 days) tours in the terrain you describe your Rad Rover will probably be fine. I'd strongly suggest making some long (50+ mile) day rides and a couple of short overnights to shake everything down and be sure it will all work for you. Better to figure all that out on a short trip than late at night on a longer trip.

You are no doubt correct that you can put together a plausible touring rig for quite a bit less money. Please understand that this thread is titled "Best bike for long distance touring", not "Reasonably priced good enough bike for touring".

I also think you wildly underestimate the effects that frame geometry have on ergonomics. If I recall the Rad Rover has basically one size, and depending on your proportions that may work fine or it may be a torture device. In general mountain bikes (and to a lesser extent road bikes) don't have a geometry that is conducive to day-in, day-out, long distance riding -- unless you are a super athlete or have a very high pain threshold. Those little things add up and those little things cost money.

Also, that Rohloff + Gates belt drivetrain costs a bit more than you think. Yes, you can get a Rohloff hub on Amazon for $1200, but when you factor in the fact that you need to custom-build a wheel, you are forced to use a mid-drive (so no mass-produced frame) the cost premium for the Rohloff+Gates is realistically like $3000 or more.

I think the big limiting factors you'd have with the Rad are the aforementioned ergonomic issues and the limited gear range. Yes, the granny gear on the new Rads greatly improves things, but you are still left with only 8 speeds and a relatively narrow range of speeds where you can efficiently pedal.

Distance touring, in the end, is about efficiency. And there are a couple of important factors to consider with efficiency:

• If you are in serious pain, discomfort, or are injured you are not going to be very efficient
• Both e-bike motors and humans are at peak efficiency in fairly narrow RPM ranges
• The overall machine (human + e-bike) is going to be at peak efficiency when both are sharing the load

And "efficiency" is the difference between easy and fun 60 mile days and 50 mile death marches. From my standpoint a premium of thousands of dollars is well worth it if I avoid death marches and epics.

 

[Marquezdl]

I am in total agreement with Mr. Coffee (I DO like the handle, being a coffee junkie from the PNW myself). What seems pretty nice and acceprable and budget friendly when contemplating a 500 mile tour, or after a couple lightly loaded 50 mile days may seem absurd when one is half way up a 5 mile grade with 55 lbs of gear into a headwind with 85+ temps. My admittedly limited experience loaded touring has been that Mr. Murphy has his hands in all the pots, planning, route selection, temperature, wind, rain, equipment failures, aches and pains, etc.
Budgets make for hard choices, but longterm my rolhof has been surprisingly low cost to maintain...oil change once a year.....
I have well over 10K miles on my chain and it seems fine. Never had a mechanical with it yet. I wóuld love to have a gates belt and 203mm discs....maybe next year! I should mention in all fairness that my experience with loaded touring has not been on an ebike, but I am planning to remedy that this year

 

[Beardystarstuff]

Yeah, I realized the title of the thread was “Best bike...” It was only when I was seeing suggestions of what could or could not be done on other non-best bikes that I jumped in to offer my thoughts. Mostly I wanted to emphasize that a bike that is not best in class can still be very capable for long rides. It may not be the most comfortable or most durable or the best, just a friendly reminder that not everyone has a high budget.

To be clear, I’ve only had the Rover for just two weeks. But in that two weeks I’ve ridden 20 to 32+ miles a day, almost every day, about 360 miles thus far. Previous to that I was riding a Lectric, for 20+ miles a day in December and January. Not that it makes me an expert on either bike! Just that in terms of shake down rides I’m certainly giving the Rover at least a basic workout. In the weeks to come I will indeed stretch my legs a bit to some 50 mile rides. All that said, I’ve got animals and probably won’t actually do much multi-day riding away from home. For me it was just a point to make about less expensive bikes.

I totally get bike geometry. 20 years ago I worked at a bike shop in Memphis for a couple years at the peak of my immersion in bike culture. I helped measure folks for bikes, and rode a nice Serotta road bike and a Fat Chance Yo Eddy mountain bike. Riding is all I did when I wasn’t working at the shop. Not a builder or expert, but not new to the subject. And you’re right, sized frames are a better option and for some it might be a necessity. One size fits all won’t work for everyone, you’re right about that. And yes, longer rides on a bike will tend to bring forth problems that are mild at 10 or 20 miles but which become much worse at higher ranges.

On that drivetrain, I guess what I was commenting on wasn’t the cost so much as the value of that cost. Same for the whole proposition of a $7,000 to 9,000 bike. I, only spoke up on the thread when it veered a bit from what the best bikes could do to what cheaper bikes could not do. It just seems worth keeping the context of these things in mind when discussed.

You make some great points about efficiency and discomfort and enjoyment. I look forward to many 50 and 60 mile rides in the coming months! I suppose I’ll find out how the Rover feels when pushed from a 2 or 4 hour ride of 30 to 40 miles up to longer duration rides! But I will say that my current normal of 30 miles feels fantastic.