'Zen Skunkworks' - a new model in the development

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Ravi, is the new Photon (hub motor version) a belt drive?

Photon mid-drive comes with the Gates Belt drive.
The hub motor version called "Wave" is a chain drive with 9-speed cassette and it will be significantly less expensive than the mid-drive photon.

 

[JGcycle]

Photon mid-drive comes with the Gates Belt drive.
The hub motor version called "Wave" is a chain drive with 9-speed cassette and it will be significantly less expensive than the mid-drive photon.

Thanks so much for your quick response.

 

[Tubbs]

Looking forward to seeing the Wave, pricing and delivery date.

 

[opimax]

Hi Ravi I am looking for an upper end hub drive , can the Wave loaded up? Hi end brakes , electronic shifting , off road unlocked , multiple large batteries, attached lights that are all that is needed, as much suspension for smooth ride , racks and fenders , higher speed charging, etc?

Limited connectivity and smarts , just a great fast bike with low maintenance that a local bike shop can work on

Hoping to scratch that n+1 itch

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Hi Ravi I am looking for an upper end hub drive , can the Wave loaded up? Hi end brakes , electronic shifting , off road unlocked , multiple large batteries, attached lights that are all that is needed, as much suspension for smooth ride , racks and fenders , higher speed charging, etc?

Limited connectivity and smarts , just a great fast bike with low maintenance that a local bike shop can work on

Hoping to scratch that n+1 itch

We can build you a powerful bike with a 1000Whr battery, Rohloff option, and Gates belt, and if we use, Bafang ultra motor, we could do it.
On top of this, you can add fancier brakes, lights, Kinekt seatpost, dual battery options, etc. No connectivity, just a powerful, comfortable ride. Actually, we are building something similar for a client of ours and are happy to get one for you as well.

 

[opimax]

Rear hub?

 

[Hintrod]

I also would be very interested in a loaded rear Hub drive ebike like Opimax

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Initial few Zen Photon bikes rolling off the production and under testing before being shipped to Canada for final assembly of battery, wheels, racks and QC/QA.
Just like the new iPhone, we have this new starlight white color on the bike. Also, it comes the Enviolo premium shifter that indicates gear range.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

We can build you a powerful bike with a 1000Whr battery, Rohloff option, and Gates belt, and if we use, Bafang ultra motor, we could do it.
On top of this, you can add fancier brakes, lights, Kinekt seatpost, dual battery options, etc. No connectivity, just a powerful, comfortable ride. Actually, we are building something similar for a client of ours and are happy to get one for you as well.

Ravi, on an Ultra/Gates setup, what kind of belt tensioner would you use?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Ravi, on an Ultra/Gates setup, what kind of belt tensioner would you use?

On a hardtail, we would use this -

https://www.bike24.com/p2141506.html

 

[Tom@WashDC]

On a hardtail, we would use this -

https://www.bike24.com/p2141506.html

On my soft tail?

 

[scrambler]

We received a request from a client who runs tours and rentals for a comfortable, step-thru full-suspension bike that could handle off-road trails and be outfitted with a rear rack and fenders. They are receiving about 50 E-bikes from us. We will be doing a thorough QC on everything.
This bike comes with

• 750W Bafang Ultra motor,
• 52V,20Ah pack tested to UL standards
• 4-piston brakes with E-cutoff from Tektro
• 27.5" wheels and 2.4" / 2.8" tires from Schwalbe
• and RockShox front and rear suspensions
• Currently, we are strengthening some rear rack designs

If there is enough interest from the EBR community and they want any feature added, please let us know, and we can make this happen.

View attachment 150208

View attachment 150170

@Ravi Kempaiah
Is this Full suspension step thru project still happening?

If so any target date for availability?

Thanks

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

@Ravi Kempaiah
Is this Full suspension step thru project still happening?

If so any target date for availability?

Thanks

Yes, it is definitely on track. Our focus has been getting the photon bikes out the door but this is definitely happening.
Couple of questions:

1. For a lot of people, the ultra motor is an overkill. Would you prefer something lighter?
   Ultra weighs in at ~6.7kgs, we are thinking of using the same motor that we have on our Photons at 3.9kgs. What would be your preference?
2. Also, not everyone would need 52V,20Ah battery and we believe that 52V,15Ah would be sufficient for some people.
   Any thoughts here?
   

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yes, it is definitely on track. Our focus has been getting the photon bikes out the door but this is definitely happening.
Couple of questions:

1. For a lot of people, the ultra motor is an overkill. Would you prefer something lighter?
   Ultra weighs in at ~6.7kgs, we are thinking of using the same motor that we have on our Photons at 3.9kgs. What would be your preference?
2. Also, not everyone would need 52V,20Ah battery and we believe that 52V,15Ah would be sufficient for some people.
   Any thoughts here?

1. I somewhat agree that the lighter motor is desired as the power is probably more than adequate, at least for me.. but for me the lure of the Ultra is the UART customizable programming. I'd gladly pay 2.6kg placed near the center of gravity for that

2. Again I'd agree that the smaller battery would be more than adequate for most of my rides. So why not 48v as I value a small ah gain over a small V gain using a similar amount of cells. Or am I missing something?

 

[scrambler]

Yes, it is definitely on track. Our focus has been getting the photon bikes out the door but this is definitely happening.
Couple of questions:

1. For a lot of people, the ultra motor is an overkill. Would you prefer something lighter?
   Ultra weighs in at ~6.7kgs, we are thinking of using the same motor that we have on our Photons at 3.9kgs. What would be your preference?
2. Also, not everyone would need 52V,20Ah battery and we believe that 52V,15Ah would be sufficient for some people.
   Any thoughts here?

Great to hear, cant wait...

MOTOR: The reason for the full suspension is the ability to go on fire trails, which means some steep climbing at times, so I do like to have a fairly powerful motor so we can maintain fast enough stabilization speed going up.
Not sure which motor exactly is on the photon, so I cant be sure how much actual power it has, and how capable of speedy steep climbing it makes it.
I would definitely want something way more capable that the traditional Bosch CX. If the lighter motor offer that, less weight is always good.
Programmability is important to be able to tune the assist to one's preference.
Note: If you are thinking different motors, and for the future when it becomes available, keep the new Pinion MGU motor plus gearbox in mind, that would be perfect for that bike!

BATTERY: Both would be good, if choosing the smaller 780Wh battery, may be have a plug available for a range extender?

What I would love to see is a Belt with tensioner like on the many full suspension bikes that have been showing up lately (although mostly in Europe).
And I would love the option of the Enviolo with the AutomatiQ shifter.

For me (actually my wife) the goal of this bike is to be a single bike to go anywhere (streets and trail), and for someone who is not an experience rider.
So it needs to offer all the simplification an e-Bike has to offer, making the ride simple and painless.

My checkbook is ready

 

[JRA]

I personally, as an owner of one, wouldn't recommend the M620 for a rental bike. Perhaps the new M560 that appears to be the latest refinement of the M600 that still will have plenty of power and be much lighter might be a better option? I do like the concept of this bike though.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Note: If you are thinking different motors, and for the future when it becomes available, keep the new Pinion MGU motor plus gearbox in mind, that would be perfect for that bike!

Pinion MGU is a great motor but we will test it thoroughly before offering it to the market. I think the power of the Pinion MGU would be on par with Bosch CX but without all the added complexity of the internal gear hub.
We are also keeping a close eye on the Valeo motor as well. We would much rather do thorough testing before we bring anything to the market. The motor we are offering on the photon was built by former Bafang engineers and we have tested it throughly for over a year. It certainly offers more power than Bosch CX and has higher torque, additionally, it offers throttle feature that many customers wanted to see.

What I would love to see is a Belt with tensioner like on the many full suspension bikes that have been showing up lately (although mostly in Europe).
And I would love the option of the Enviolo with the AutomatiQ shifter.

We have a few designs in the test phase. Ideally, we would want to bring full-suspension, belt drive with an integrated motor+gearbox.
To your first question, we can certainly offer Bafang M620 motor with 3X3 Rohloff hub on a full-suspension model.

 

[scrambler]

Pinion MGU is a great motor but we will test it thoroughly before offering it to the market. I think the power of the Pinion MGU would be on par with Bosch CX but without all the added complexity of the internal gear hub.
We are also keeping a close eye on the Valeo motor as well. We would much rather do thorough testing before we bring anything to the market. The motor we are offering on the photon was built by former Bafang engineers and we have tested it throughly for over a year. It certainly offers more power than Bosch CX and has higher torque, additionally, it offers throttle feature that many customers wanted to see.

Agreed, I just thought I mentioned it as I think it is the future of easy to use e-Bikes.
Good point on the throttle, it will remain a lacking feature on Valeo and Pinion, unless we can hack it...

We have a few designs in the test phase. Ideally, we would want to bring full-suspension, belt drive with an integrated motor+gearbox.
To your first question, we can certainly offer Bafang M620 motor with 3X3 Rohloff hub on a full-suspension model.

That sounds great.
If you can do a belt drive with tensioner, any reason you would not offer Enviolo?
The AutomatiQ shifting is supposed to have become quite good.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Hey Ravi, if you put the new CYC Photon motor in your new Photon ebike you'd have a Photon in a Photon.

 

[Explorer-1]

Pinion MGU is unfortunately 2 years way from the US market. When it gets here they may offer throttle, and hopefully a bit more power. Very exciting for the future, but sad everything is moving so slow.