Yamaha unveils new full-suspension electric mountain bike

[shiruba]

Hi,

It's a little hard for me to make out your photos, but for sure there are bolts of some kind.

Wow.. I think 1000 miles is over 1500km. I don't think mine has made it anywhere near that far.. Granted I usually use my panasonic for road riding and tend to use the Yamaha more for off road.

Here are some photos of the drive drive bolts.

These bolts are right side drive unit bolts (roughly translated). If you can't read Japanese, the ones that say 22 and 11 (the torque). The right side are M6 type bolts. (left side is M8), and should use loctight 263. Which I didn't use, which is probably part of why they worked loose. It doesn't mention the length, but they are pretty short compared to the other side.

M6 is a standard, so you should be able to easily order some different length M6 bolts off of Amazon or your preferred place.

If you're talking about the torque for the pedals or the axial main shaft, those are documented. If you mean the four bolts that attach the chain ring to the uhm.. Thing, then I don't see anything that looks like that exactly, but they do have a section taking about torque for "other bolts" not specifically mentioned, basically saying the torq depends on the bolt size.

Hope this helps.

 

[PineNut]

Hi,

It's a little hard for me to make out your photos, but for sure there are bolts of some kind.

Wow.. I think 1000 miles is over 1500km. I don't think mine has made it anywhere near that far.. Granted I usually use my panasonic for road riding and tend to use the Yamaha more for off road.

Here are some photos of the drive drive bolts.


View attachment 98045View attachment 98046
View attachment 98048View attachment 98049View attachment 98050View attachment 98051

These bolts are right side drive unit bolts (roughly translated). If you can't read Japanese, the ones that say 22 and 11 (the torque). The right side are M6 type bolts. (left side is M8), and should use loctight 263. Which I didn't use, which is probably part of why they worked loose. It doesn't mention the length, but they are pretty short compared to the other side.

M6 is a standard, so you should be able to easily order some different length M6 bolts off of Amazon or your preferred place.

If you're talking about the torque for the pedals or the axial main shaft, those are documented. If you mean the four bolts that attach the chain ring to the uhm.. Thing, then I don't see anything that looks like that exactly, but they do have a section taking about torque for "other bolts" not specifically mentioned, basically saying the torq depends on the bolt size.

Hope this helps.

Thank again for the info! This is really helping me a lot.

My photos of the right side of the motor area pretty much match yours, and those two M6 bolts (labeled #2 in your shop manual) are definitely not there. The lower M6 bolt is missing entirely. I can see the end of the M8 bolt on the left side of the bike by looking through that hole on the right side of the bike and I can see the end turn when I turn the M8 bolt from the opposite side.

The upper M6 bolt on the right side is there, but is unfortunately missing its head which I guess somehow broke off (very strange).

I did get the Moro parts catalogue which you can download from the Yamaha ebike site (along with a couple of other manuals which do not include the shop manual). I do see the part numbers of both the two M8 and two M6 bolts. If I were missing the M8 bolts, I would probably have to order those from Yamaha because they are only threaded at the ends which I assume is not standard. But I can probably get some standard M6 bolts from a hardware store as you mentioned (I wish I knew the length but guess I can buy a couple different lengths, hopefully the thread count is standard). I'll probably have to get Allen wrench heads since I doubt they would sell Torx bolts, but we'll see if they do. I wonder why Yamaha uses Torx bolts? Is it for better security to make it harder to steal the motor, or are they necessary for some other reason like handling higher torque?

I'll also be shopping for a reverse drill bit and extraction tool to pull out that M6 bolt with the missing head. Hopefully it will go out easier because it was torqued at 11 Nm instead of 22 Nm for the M8 bolts, and it's probably gotten looser anyway from all my riding. Maybe it's good the rest of the bolt is still there or else my motor might have fallen off during a ride.

I have a shop manual for the previous series of PW motors, it can be downloaded free from various sites. I don't see a PWX-2 shop manual which is what I think you purchased somewhere.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Thank again for the info! This is really helping me a lot.

My photos of the right side of the motor area pretty much match yours, and those two M6 bolts (labeled #2 in your shop manual) are definitely not there. The lower M6 bolt is missing entirely. I can see the end of the M8 bolt on the left side of the bike by looking through that hole on the right side of the bike and I can see the end turn when I turn the M8 bolt from the opposite side.

The upper M6 bolt on the right side is there, but is unfortunately missing its head which I guess somehow broke off (very strange).

I did get the Moro parts catalogue which you can download from the Yamaha ebike site (along with a couple of other manuals which do not include the shop manual). I do see the part numbers of both the two M8 and two M6 bolts. If I were missing the M8 bolts, I would probably have to order those from Yamaha because they are only threaded at the ends which I assume is not standard. But I can probably get some standard M6 bolts from a hardware store as you mentioned (I wish I knew the length but guess I can buy a couple different lengths, hopefully the thread count is standard). I'll probably have to get Allen wrench heads since I doubt they would sell Torx bolts, but we'll see if they do. I wonder why Yamaha uses Torx bolts? Is it for better security to make it harder to steal the motor, or are they necessary for some other reason like handling higher torque?

I'll also be shopping for a reverse drill bit and extraction tool to pull out that M6 bolt with the missing head. Hopefully it will go out easier because it was torqued at 11 Nm instead of 22 Nm for the M8 bolts, and it's probably gotten looser anyway from all my riding. Maybe it's good the rest of the bolt is still there or else my motor might have fallen off during a ride.

I have a shop manual for the previous series of PW motors, it can be downloaded free from various sites. I don't see a PWX-2 shop manual which is what I think you purchased somewhere.

Regards to your bike, I have to ask you this: Is your bike still under it's factory warranty? If so, it's best to let the Yamaha dealer work with your issues. If you say there is a motor mount screw or two missing, this should be a warranty issue. No motor mount bolts should come loose or have the bolt head break off if it is torqued by the factory to the proper specs.

Note those recessed bolt heads in the pictures. A standard torx head socket will not fit with that nipple in the center of the bolt head. This is a "pin-in-head security torx head screw" and it's there because the factory likely does not want the average bike owner to be tampering with removing the motor. You can find those metric pin in head security torx head sockets at a site like Summit Racing for minimal dollars.

Do not do this job without a proper torque wrench and blue loctite. I got my cheap little torque wrench at harbor freight. It's a quarter inch drive wrench & I used it on my Yamaha PW (and it's standard metric hex head screw heads) on my Haibike Full FatSix. You can probably size up whatever socket head screws you decide to go with at a NAPA auto parts store, with the help of a friendly counter person. This is all dependent of course, if your bike is out of warranty.

Best to remove the chain ring and spider/crank arm to present a clear work space for you.

 

[PineNut]

Regards to your bike, I have to ask you this: Is your bike still under it's factory warranty? If so, it's best to let the Yamaha dealer work with your issues. If you say there is a motor mount screw or two missing, this should be a warranty issue. No motor mount bolts should come loose or have the bolt head break off if it is torqued by the factory to the proper specs.

Note those recessed bolt heads in the pictures. A standard torx head socket will not fit with that nipple in the center of the bolt head. This is a "pin-in-head security torx head screw" and it's there because the factory likely does not want the average bike owner to be tampering with removing the motor. You can find those metric pin in head security torx head sockets at a site like Summit Racing for minimal dollars.

Do not do this job without a proper torque wrench and blue loctite. I got my cheap little torque wrench at harbor freight. It's a quarter inch drive wrench & I used it on my Yamaha PW (and it's standard metric hex head screw heads) on my Haibike Full FatSix. You can probably size up whatever socket head screws you decide to go with at a NAPA auto parts store, with the help of a friendly counter person. This is all dependent of course, if your bike is out of warranty.

Best to remove the chain ring and spider/crank arm to present a clear work space for you.

Appreciate the inputs.

Yes, the bike is still under warranty. However, there is no authorized Yamaha dealer here in town and further away dealers didn't have the bike in stock so I purchased the bike from a certain far away mid-west mail order bike shop (they are Yamaha authorized but way too far to drive to). There are a couple of Yamaha bike shops 50-65 miles away and I could probably take the bike to one of those if they'll do warranty work on it. However, earlier I called both of them asking what to torque the motor mount bolts to (the bike's user manual makes no mention of it) and neither service guy knew the answer so I'm a bit worried about what to expect from them.

I do have the correct bits for those "pin-in-head" bolts and I do have a digital torque wrench which can handle the necessary torque. While I've extracted several broken bolts before where there was something to grab with lock jaw pliers, I've never tried extracting a recessed broken bolt using the left hand drill bit/extractor technique. I did watch a YouTube Video about it so I have a fair idea what to do, but know there is a risk and the extraction tools can break in the process and/or get stuck in the broken bolt. If I end up doing this, I also plan to spray the bolt with some sort of penetrant and let it soak to hopefully help loosen the broken bolt. Any suggestions what to use? Since the bolt goes into the motor casing I also wonder if using penetrant would be a bad idea.

I've had loose motor mount bolts before on my other e-bike (so loose I could unscrew them with my fingers), but never had one fall out and never had a bolt head break off just from riding the bike. I'm wondering if the bolt was already broken when I got the bike but that can't be proven. When I got the bike I just noticed the two mounting holes and assumed that there were nuts in those holes for the two bolts on the opposite side. Well, I was wrong in that assumption and now know those holes are for two other bolts.

Yep, one of the bolt holes could only be accessed with the tools I have after I removed the front gear. If it were an Allen bolt I have long, thin wrenches that might have worked, but with that special bolt my tool was too wide to get through the gear.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I would talk to the closest Yamaha dealer first about that warranty. Just speculating here, but I could see an authorized dealer being hesitant on giving you the torque spec..... I doubt the local Ford or Chevy service department would not give out those numbers either if you called and asked them about something to do with their products!

Failing that, I think your best bet would be to call around local machine shops and/or shops that specialize in engine rebuilding. Even a small engine/lawn mower repair shop, to see if they are willing to take on that snapped bolt for you. People like this are likely to have much more experience in removing broken bolts in motors and engines than you or I would. That's pretty much what I'd recommend you do. Once back home, you can size up the proper bolts and loctite/install/torque to factory specs and you should be good to go for years and years of riding. It would be a very minimal cost for a pro to take out your broken bolts.

I've got a heck of a lot of miles on my Yamaha powered Haibike (over 15 thousand and counting). Those bolts just don't come off, nor do they break off. Fwiw, I bought mine from that large midwest dealer some 4 plus years now, not an issue. Somebody before you was playing around with that motor assembly for some reason or the other.

Hope this helps in some way or the other. Let me know how it works out. That's a heck of a nice bike you've got there.

PS: Using a penetrating oil should not cause any issues. PB Blaster works great and WD-40 Specialist Rust Release Penetrant Spray With Blu Torch is just as good.

 

[shiruba]

Hmm I have to agree. Taking the motor out and putting it back in is low risk, and in the worst case, the bolts are too loose and you have to tighten them - but digging out broken boots is not risky, so I would try to have that done under warranty if at all possible.

I also agree that they almost certainly don't fall out or break on their own under normal circumstances. I have four ebikes, and the only one where the bolts got loose is the only one where I removed the motor. (But if you bought it new and never opened it, then that's a mystery).

I don't know how many of the bike Yamaha has sold outside of Japan, but it's entirely possible that a random bike shop had never worked on one before, especially since they have been out only a short time. Probably what would happen is that after you bring your bike in for service, then they order the service manual I have and go from there.

As for why they use Torx, in pretty sure that is mainly because they can take a higher torque without skipping. The "security torx" with the pin in the middle is probably too deter people who don't know what they are doing from playing, but as you know, like other "security" bits, anyone can easily get bit bits if they want. (even a thief...)

Anyway, I wish you luck! I would get it fixed one way or the other, because you don't want the motor falling out one day while you are riding.

If you do need the bolts or something, I can probably ask a bike shop here to order them for me, and I'm sure something that small would be cheap to ship.

 

[Te. S]

YDX Moro 70 how is the battery 500Wh. ? can you guys tell me how far or miles or kilometers can you ride on the avriage please thanks i can't find any info on it TIA.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

YDX Moro 70 how is the battery 500Wh. ? can you guys tell me how far or miles or kilometers can you ride on the avriage please thanks i can't find any info on it TIA.

I have a Haibike Full FatSix, which has the lower output, original Yamaha PW drive, along with some 500wh batteries. Since buying the bike in February, 2017, I've ridden exclusively in the High power setting. And since the beginning and riding relatively at sea-level with minimal climbs in and out of creek watersheds in the areas I ride in, I get a consistent near 40 mile range in that high power setting.

Of course, wind in your face, elevation changes or heavy pressure on the pedals will tell the crank sensor to dish out more power, which means less battery range.

 

[Te. S]

I have a Haibike Full FatSix, which has the lower output, original Yamaha PW drive, along with some 500wh batteries. Since buying the bike in February, 2017, I've ridden exclusively in the High power setting. And since the beginning and riding relatively at sea-level with minimal climbs in and out of creek watersheds in the areas I ride in, I get a consistent near 40 mile range in that high power setting.

Of course, wind in your face, elevation changes or heavy pressure on the pedals will tell the crank sensor to dish out more power, which means less battery range.

thanks