D
Deleted member 4210
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The Yamaha brand is obviously well known, but outside of Japan for ebikes, (basically the US) it is really still quite new. Ironic, since most people in the US probably didn't even learn about ebikes until around 2014 unless they traveled abroad to places like Europe, yet Yamaha has been building ebikes and selling them commercially since the early 1990's.
Yamaha if they are known in the ebike world in the US, are frequently mentioned for their reliable and smooth mid drive motors found on more popular brands like Giant, or even Haibike.
In the past year since they launched, not much of that has changed.
But as the headline suggests, there are some really powerful, yet subtle attributes about the Yamaha that are quite difficult to understand, even if you test ride them for a bit.
Some rather naive (but well intentioned) reviewers, try to describe these ebikes as 'smooth', or 'intuitive, or my all time least descriptive term that they are 'for purists.'
What the heck*** does that even mean?!!
Please don't take my use of the word 'naive ' as a pejorative, but when people can't find the words to describe something, quite frankly they either don't ride bikes enough, or have the technical background to appreciate what a designer had in mind. Then trying to put it in language that the 'layman' can appreciate and feel whether it's relevant to them, is even harder to accomplish.
Some of this has been talked about before, but unfortunately gets buried in politics that sometimes people here at EBR, somehow feel is helpful to the discussion. I get that, and people can't resist.
However, with this Yamaha I felt it's worth talking about again, so here goes my simple description:
1) if you haven't been biking for a long time, then ebikes can be a god-send. They really do remove a lot of obstacles that likely kept you from riding for a lot of years. If you have been biking, but just cannot accomplish what you used to do in the past, (we all get old) , ebikes are again an incredible feeling enabler for those looking to enjoy the outdoors and do so in a low impact fashion.
2) now here's where people tend to get lost or confused, if the discussion devolves to 'mid drive vs hub drives' and perceived benefits of each. It's rarely a fruitful discussion. My experience in this is 4 years of selling both. And of course riding many different brands in the selection process.
The way I view the Yamaha is that once you start riding again, you'll probably find yourself riding a lot more frequently and also even longer rides.
After the initial thrill in the first weeks or even the first year, that 'powerful ' hub drive or even 'efficient ' mid drive will likely lose its original luster. Then you may be likely to start thinking, hey this ebike weighs more than it should, or its doing more work than I want it to do, and the cadence sensing or even torque sensing (again found in mid drives more frequently than hub drives) just isn't doing the 'trick' for me anymore. I'm in better shape then ever, I have the joy of biking back with me, similar to my youthful days, but somehow this ebike I bought that I thought was the 'cats meow', just really isn't serving my needs like I thought it would when I test rode it and 'fell in love ' and got that ebike 'smiled'
3) so this is where Yamaha's literal decades of production and user experience comes into play, and it's very subtle so you can miss it , but it's actually quite awesome once you get the 'aha' moment.
Yamaha designed their motor, frame, drive train, battery, to be as light as possible with more common and normal and Proven materials. Efficiency was not just critical to them to keep the battery capacity small, while still getting ranges that are often in the 70 mile category. Amazing for only 36 Volts and ~ 11 amp hours. But more importantly they really did some phenomenal 'tuning' and unique feedback sensing that turns the ebike into more of an extension of each rider's individual performance abilities, that neither over powers the rider, or under performs at the wrong time in the wrong place.
And since every rider who starts riding again, or keeps riding more than they would have or longer than they would have with a regular bike, dynamically changes for the better. They get stronger, gain endurance, can deliver more to the propulsion of ride, and so the more they do that, the entire bike really needs to adapt and change, or it becomes a limitation.
4) the Yamaha in my very strong view, adapts to the rider, and the riders needs much better than any hub drive ever will, and even more efficiently than other mid drives are accomplishing.
The incredible beauty of this, is they are doing it at price points well below more popular hub drive brands such as Pedego and Stromer, and even beating the 'big brands ' who they supply like Giant on both price , and better frame and drive train 'tuning ' than Giant does for ebike priced above $4000. (Where Yamaha is delivering that starting at $2400).
The reliability ( like many well known Japanese auto brands, Toyota and Honda to name a couple) is unparalleled and you just aren't going to have the repeated bearing failures or gearing failures of the more popular Euro brand mid drives.
5) So this truly is an ebike for the longer term, and an ebike you'll appreciate the more years you ride, more miles you put on, and one that won't spend more time in the service department than you are riding it.
Obviously you can't detect some of this stuff in a few test rides. Or even by asking since not many people know about Yamaha's rich traditions, or products. And of course, many of you are quite satisfied with your hub drive or mid drive brand x, after 1 or 2 years.
Honestly though you don't have to be a 'purist' (whatever the heck that is... lol) Or an 'avid cyclist' everyone who is not leaving there bike in the garage for weeks at a time is 'avid' IMHO) to appreciate and enjoy what the Yamaha will bring you, and to recognize it really is a much better value than the minority of ebike brands on the market today. Eventually some competition will catch up, but I suspect like with their other products, this company will be around and thriving much longer than 80% of the ebike brands existing today.
Yamaha's an investment, not a short term whim, and your odds of loving it longer, or even more as the years go on, will likely be much higher than other brands you could choose that are either a lot more expensive or priced so cheap, you can throw them away after a season or two.
Yamaha learned a lot of this primarily by keeping their 'test market' limited to Japan, and then having the patience to grow very slowly for decades, and even anticipate many years in advance that there would even be a significant market for ebikes beyond just their relatively small market in some cities in Japan. Here in the US we are just not adept or good or patient in terms of thinking long term. Maybe it's cultural, and who knows why.
Rather than leaving you with a conclusion, I'll leave you with two questions :
1) can you REALLY afford to buy that $1499 ebike, and then have to buy another one again in 1, or, 2, or 3 years ?
2) Or do you really WANT to afford that $4000, or $5000 ebike that has awesome marketing, pretty colors, high margins for the OEM, and/or dealer, or comes with the latest 'gizmo' and whiz bang software, but isn't adapting to your changing fitness, or growing endurance, or something you won't find to be reliable or the company not even around in 4 or 5 years ?
Yamaha if they are known in the ebike world in the US, are frequently mentioned for their reliable and smooth mid drive motors found on more popular brands like Giant, or even Haibike.
In the past year since they launched, not much of that has changed.
But as the headline suggests, there are some really powerful, yet subtle attributes about the Yamaha that are quite difficult to understand, even if you test ride them for a bit.
Some rather naive (but well intentioned) reviewers, try to describe these ebikes as 'smooth', or 'intuitive, or my all time least descriptive term that they are 'for purists.'
What the heck*** does that even mean?!!
Please don't take my use of the word 'naive ' as a pejorative, but when people can't find the words to describe something, quite frankly they either don't ride bikes enough, or have the technical background to appreciate what a designer had in mind. Then trying to put it in language that the 'layman' can appreciate and feel whether it's relevant to them, is even harder to accomplish.
Some of this has been talked about before, but unfortunately gets buried in politics that sometimes people here at EBR, somehow feel is helpful to the discussion. I get that, and people can't resist.
However, with this Yamaha I felt it's worth talking about again, so here goes my simple description:
1) if you haven't been biking for a long time, then ebikes can be a god-send. They really do remove a lot of obstacles that likely kept you from riding for a lot of years. If you have been biking, but just cannot accomplish what you used to do in the past, (we all get old) , ebikes are again an incredible feeling enabler for those looking to enjoy the outdoors and do so in a low impact fashion.
2) now here's where people tend to get lost or confused, if the discussion devolves to 'mid drive vs hub drives' and perceived benefits of each. It's rarely a fruitful discussion. My experience in this is 4 years of selling both. And of course riding many different brands in the selection process.
The way I view the Yamaha is that once you start riding again, you'll probably find yourself riding a lot more frequently and also even longer rides.
After the initial thrill in the first weeks or even the first year, that 'powerful ' hub drive or even 'efficient ' mid drive will likely lose its original luster. Then you may be likely to start thinking, hey this ebike weighs more than it should, or its doing more work than I want it to do, and the cadence sensing or even torque sensing (again found in mid drives more frequently than hub drives) just isn't doing the 'trick' for me anymore. I'm in better shape then ever, I have the joy of biking back with me, similar to my youthful days, but somehow this ebike I bought that I thought was the 'cats meow', just really isn't serving my needs like I thought it would when I test rode it and 'fell in love ' and got that ebike 'smiled'
3) so this is where Yamaha's literal decades of production and user experience comes into play, and it's very subtle so you can miss it , but it's actually quite awesome once you get the 'aha' moment.
Yamaha designed their motor, frame, drive train, battery, to be as light as possible with more common and normal and Proven materials. Efficiency was not just critical to them to keep the battery capacity small, while still getting ranges that are often in the 70 mile category. Amazing for only 36 Volts and ~ 11 amp hours. But more importantly they really did some phenomenal 'tuning' and unique feedback sensing that turns the ebike into more of an extension of each rider's individual performance abilities, that neither over powers the rider, or under performs at the wrong time in the wrong place.
And since every rider who starts riding again, or keeps riding more than they would have or longer than they would have with a regular bike, dynamically changes for the better. They get stronger, gain endurance, can deliver more to the propulsion of ride, and so the more they do that, the entire bike really needs to adapt and change, or it becomes a limitation.
4) the Yamaha in my very strong view, adapts to the rider, and the riders needs much better than any hub drive ever will, and even more efficiently than other mid drives are accomplishing.
The incredible beauty of this, is they are doing it at price points well below more popular hub drive brands such as Pedego and Stromer, and even beating the 'big brands ' who they supply like Giant on both price , and better frame and drive train 'tuning ' than Giant does for ebike priced above $4000. (Where Yamaha is delivering that starting at $2400).
The reliability ( like many well known Japanese auto brands, Toyota and Honda to name a couple) is unparalleled and you just aren't going to have the repeated bearing failures or gearing failures of the more popular Euro brand mid drives.
5) So this truly is an ebike for the longer term, and an ebike you'll appreciate the more years you ride, more miles you put on, and one that won't spend more time in the service department than you are riding it.
Obviously you can't detect some of this stuff in a few test rides. Or even by asking since not many people know about Yamaha's rich traditions, or products. And of course, many of you are quite satisfied with your hub drive or mid drive brand x, after 1 or 2 years.
Honestly though you don't have to be a 'purist' (whatever the heck that is... lol) Or an 'avid cyclist' everyone who is not leaving there bike in the garage for weeks at a time is 'avid' IMHO) to appreciate and enjoy what the Yamaha will bring you, and to recognize it really is a much better value than the minority of ebike brands on the market today. Eventually some competition will catch up, but I suspect like with their other products, this company will be around and thriving much longer than 80% of the ebike brands existing today.
Yamaha's an investment, not a short term whim, and your odds of loving it longer, or even more as the years go on, will likely be much higher than other brands you could choose that are either a lot more expensive or priced so cheap, you can throw them away after a season or two.
Yamaha learned a lot of this primarily by keeping their 'test market' limited to Japan, and then having the patience to grow very slowly for decades, and even anticipate many years in advance that there would even be a significant market for ebikes beyond just their relatively small market in some cities in Japan. Here in the US we are just not adept or good or patient in terms of thinking long term. Maybe it's cultural, and who knows why.
Rather than leaving you with a conclusion, I'll leave you with two questions :
1) can you REALLY afford to buy that $1499 ebike, and then have to buy another one again in 1, or, 2, or 3 years ?
2) Or do you really WANT to afford that $4000, or $5000 ebike that has awesome marketing, pretty colors, high margins for the OEM, and/or dealer, or comes with the latest 'gizmo' and whiz bang software, but isn't adapting to your changing fitness, or growing endurance, or something you won't find to be reliable or the company not even around in 4 or 5 years ?
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