Yamaha battery not reaching expected range?

[Yamahonian]

I have a new bike with a Yamaha PW-X Motor and 500wH Yamaha battery.

On today's ride, I began with 92% charge. The expected range, on the high power setting, was 51 miles at the start of my trip.

I rode a total of 28 actual miles, and ended my day with 10% charge remaining.

Therefore, I got 28 miles out of 82% battery charge. Not nearly what I was expecting.

Outside temperature was about 42 degrees. I ride with an upright seating position (stem riser). Not an overly windy day. It was a completely flat bike trail, I am mainly riding in the three smallest rear cogs. Average 15mph.

Does that sound right, or is there something wrong with my battery?

 

[PDXzap]

A good estimate to use is 10-20 wh/mile.

 

[Captain Slow]

Range is dependent on so many variables. PDXzap provided a good guideline for expected mileage for an electric bike and you're within that range so I don't see an issue.

The cold temperature and upright seating position probably had an impact on energy usage.

 

[Yamahonian]

Forgot to include: Total weight of myself + bike + gear = 205 pounds.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Good reasons for lower-than-expected battery range have been given above. I was disappointed with the range of my Vado 5 until I understood what makes the range so low:

1. Upwind is eating the battery terribly
2. Upright riding position increases the air resistance beyond belief
3. Riding fast results in quick battery discharge since the power demand grows in cubic power of the speed (air resistance, see 1 and 2 above)
4. Elevation gain is greatly responsible for battery use; the heavier the rider the worse. That is why e-MTBs are poor on the distance covered, great for gaining the elevation; the battery power here is mostly used for climbing
5. Type of tyres used: The slicker and narrower the tyres, the less of battery use
6. Type of terrain: Perfect blacktop is easier on the battery than a gravel road or a forest path
7. Temperatures lower than 15 C (60 F) decrease the battery range
8. Riding style: Continuous ride at constant speed or sudden acceleration and deceleration (frequent stops at signals)
9. The rider's leg input. This is often overlooked. A strong, healthy rider provides a great share of the power for the bike to move. A weak cyclist relies on the pedalling assistance more.

If the e-cyclist can check the "battery health" status and the status is OK (it is 97% with my Vado), the rider cannot put blames on the manufacturer; there are too many contributing factors to make the battery range short.

I only cannot understand why the 576 Wh battery range for my hub-motor Lovelec is better than the range of my 604 Wh Vado. I probably ride the Lovelec at slower speeds than the Vado and the latter has far higher acceleration.

 

[vincent]

I have not had a pw-x motor but the pw on a hardtail haibike -with me and all my stuff heavier than you and would get much better mileage than that and I always ride in high...????

the only difference I see is that you averaged 15 mph, I am probably averaging 10-12mph

maybe the older motor is less powerful and more efficient??

routinely rode 35-38 miles on a 500 watt battery and would barely be at 50%

I also tend to ride upright

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I've found on my Yamaha PW drive that sitting upright in any kind of headwind will always result in wh's consumed driving into that wind or breeze.

Tire pressure at the max rated pressure? The lower the pressure, more power is lost within those wrinkled sidewalls. Efficient traction in the dirt, but lowered efficiency.

That all aside, your issue is riding in those 3 smaller cassette cogs. For the best mileage per battery charge, I have found that a light pedal pressure tends to not transmit the signal from the torque sensor to the motor that more power is needed. More power = more battery power consumned. Try spinning more in those lower gears (bigger cogs), shifting up to a higher gear when up to your speed of choice is reached. Even at speed, you want to be using light pedal pressure. If a grade stiffens before you on the trail and you feel more pedal pressure is needed to maintain your speed, it's time to shift down to a lower gear.

Your PW-X display's power meter is placed on the left of the screen as it is on my 2017 display. It is a vertical graph of bars. The more bars you see on your screen, the more power you are consumning out of the battery. For my best mileage per battery, a combination of light pedal pressure spinning the pedals optimized in a higher gear will always result in that power meter at one to two bars. Gain a little elevation and you can see those bars jump up.

Playing the "mileage game", extracting the most miles per charge, is a cool little facet of ebiking. When you really get it down to becoming the most efficient rider you can be, it will be because you are almost becoming one with the machine.

 

[Yamahonian]

I've found on my Yamaha PW drive that sitting upright in any kind of headwind will always result in wh's consumed driving into that wind or breeze.

Tire pressure at the max rated pressure? The lower the pressure, more power is lost within those wrinkled sidewalls. Efficient traction in the dirt, but lowered efficiency.

That all aside, your issue is riding in those 3 smaller cassette cogs. For the best mileage per battery charge, I have found that a light pedal pressure tends to not transmit the signal from the torque sensor to the motor that more power is needed. More power = more battery power consumned. Try spinning more in those lower gears (bigger cogs), shifting up to a higher gear when up to your speed of choice is reached. Even at speed, you want to be using light pedal pressure. If a grade stiffens before you on the trail and you feel more pedal pressure is needed to maintain your speed, it's time to shift down to a lower gear.

Your PW-X display's power meter is placed on the left of the screen as it is on my 2017 display. It is a vertical graph of bars. The more bars you see on your screen, the more power you are consumning out of the battery. For my best mileage per battery, a combination of light pedal pressure spinning the pedals optimized in a higher gear will always result in that power meter at one to two bars. Gain a little elevation and you can see those bars jump up.

Playing the "mileage game", extracting the most miles per charge, is a cool little facet of ebiking. When you really get it down to becoming the most efficient rider you can be, it will be because you are almost becoming one with the machine.

I am running the max tire pressure - around 35 psi.

When I am riding in a lower gear (bigger cog), even a cog in the middle of the range, I find the motor power really drops off. I am spinning, cadence above 75-80, and there is a big reduction in motor assistance vs. a lower cadence. Thus my speed goes right down. I haven't figured out how to ride a flat trail in anything other than the smaller cassette cogs while still getting decent motor assist.

 

[Yamahonian]

If the e-cyclist can check the "battery health" status and the status is OK (it is 97% with my Vado), the rider cannot put blames on the manufacturer; there are too many contributing factors to make the battery range short.
\.

How does one check the battery health status?

 

[LimboJim]

How does one check the battery health status?

Yamaha has no way for consumers to do so that I'm aware of, other than with a 25% range of results.

From an earlier post by whom I can't recall:

By pressing down the button on the battery for a given amount of time, you can obtain information about:

• The number of cycles: this tells you how many times the battery has been fully charged.
• The absolute battery capacity: tells you how much energy storage capacity the battery has lost since it was new. A new battery has an absolute battery capacity of 100%, whereas a battery that has lost 26% of its energy capacity will have an absolute battery capacity of 74%. The absolute battery capacity is expressed in 25% increments.

Determining the number of battery cycles

The LEDs are assigned numbers in the following order:

4 ---- (F)
3 ---
2 --
1 - (E)

Press the button on your battery for 20 seconds. The following led combinations give you the number of cycles:

Led 1 Blinking: 0 to 100 cycles
Led 1 On: 101 to 200 cycles

Led 1, 2 Blinking: 201 to 300 cycles
Led 1, 2 On: 301 to 400 cycles

Led 1, 2, 3 Blinking: 401 to 500 cycles
Led 1, 2, 3 On: 501 to 600 cycles

Led 1, 2, 3, 4 Blinking: 601 to 700 cycles
Let 1, 2, 3, 4 On: 701 or more cycles

Note: A new battery should only have led 1 blinking.

Determining the absolute battery capacity

The LEDs are ordered in the same manner as for the previous test.

Press the button on your battery for 30 seconds. The following led combinations give you the absolute capacity:

Led 1 on: 0 to 24 % capacity
Led 1, 2 on: 25% to 49% capacity
Led 1, 2, 3 on: 50 to 74% capacity
Led 1, 2, 3, 4 on: 75 to 100% capacity

Note: A new battery should have all 4 leds turned on.

 

[steve mercier]

I have a new bike with a Yamaha PW-X Motor and 500wH Yamaha battery.

On today's ride, I began with 92% charge. The expected range, on the high power setting, was 51 miles at the start of my trip.

I rode a total of 28 actual miles, and ended my day with 10% charge remaining.

Therefore, I got 28 miles out of 82% battery charge. Not nearly what I was expecting.

Outside temperature was about 42 degrees. I ride with an upright seating position (stem riser). Not an overly windy day. It was a completely flat bike trail, I am mainly riding in the three smallest rear cogs. Average 15mph.

Does that sound right, or is there something wrong with my battery?

My guess is there is likely nothing wrong with your battery . The reality is the faster and farther you go and the heavier your load, the more battery power you need my friend. I have found the only way to cure range anxiety while riding the way I want ( fast and far with a heavy load ) is extra batteries.

 

[Browneye]

There isn't any good reason to not charge it all the way up to ride it. Get the full range. Starting out with a semi-charged battery is a great way to run out mid-ride.

 

[LimboJim]

There isn't any good reason to not charge it all the way up to ride it. Get the full range. Starting out with a semi-charged battery is a great way to run out mid-ride.

Some would argue that charging to 100% every time taxes L-Ion batteries more than stopping at 80-90%. So a good reason to go to 100 is if you have range anxiety, and a good reason not to is if you have battery lifetime anxiety .

 

[steve mercier]

There isn't any good reason to not charge it all the way up to ride it. Get the full range. Starting out with a semi-charged battery is a great way to run out mid-ride.

Yeah life is too short to worry about battery longevity. Charge it to the max!

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I am running the max tire pressure - around 35 psi.

When I am riding in a lower gear (bigger cog), even a cog in the middle of the range, I find the motor power really drops off. I am spinning, cadence above 75-80, and there is a big reduction in motor assistance vs. a lower cadence. Thus my speed goes right down. I haven't figured out how to ride a flat trail in anything other than the smaller cassette cogs while still getting decent motor assist.

Sorry, but there is no magic bullet I can offer then what I described to you earlier in how to extract those high mileage numbers out of your battery. My Yamaha PW drive system cuts assist at around or above 90 rpm...no matter what gear you are riding. Your PW-X has a max motor cut out of 120 rpm. These motor cut out points happen whether you are in your big or small cog in the rear.

I found in my travels on my PW drive (9600 plus miles on the odometer and counting...) that my personal sweet spot and comfort level is in or around 70 rpm. Anything lower with the accompanying heavier pedal pressure to maintain a speed above 10 mph and that power meter goes beyond 3 bars; and with that, down goes battery capacity.

I have 2 particular runs of 20 some odd miles out the driveway. Both are at water level, with some very, very mild elevation runs on one run, the other with a couple of short but steep climbs out of local creek sheds. Running surfaces go on both runs from 100% asphalt, the other, a 50/50 combo of asphalt and canal towpath running. Using High power on both runs, I consistently use up just 50% battery power (on my 500wh battery) or 55-60% battery power (in my original OEM 400wh battery) in these runs, using cadence spinning and the shifting up and down gears to remain in that personal sweet spot and comfort level; all of course with an eye on that Power Meter. These consistent results were learned by riding all of those miles since spring 2017. There is a learning curve about your bike I believe you have yet to learn, but given time you will. Pedal mashing in a higher gear is not going to give you the max efficiency out of your battery.

Remember too that from 15-16 mph and above to the 20 mph speed cut out, you are pushing alot of air; this conspires too, to lower battery efficiency. As I've pointed out, there are a heck of a lot of variables you have to consider; from power settings, tire pressure, pedal pressure on the cranks, cadence, state of battery charge setting out on your run, to weather conditions and whatever speed ranges you are operating in. It's not as simple as setting it and forgetting it!

Fwiw, this is my weapon of choice in knocking down those miles on the roads and trails. Yep, even a tank like this, can score some great mileage runs out of a full battery charge, even in high power.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

The general rule of thumb is that the battery range is roughly 5-10% (in miles) of the battery capacity (in Watt-Hours), depending on how much motor assist you are using.

For example, if you have a 500wh battery, your range may vary from 25 miles to 50 miles depending on how much motor assist you are using on your ride. If you are using near to zero assist, a yamaha ebike can attain more than 100 miles as reported by one of EBR members here.

If your average speed is roughly 10 mph, then you may get near 50 miles. If your average speed is somewhere near 20 mph (or if you riding on hilly terrains), you may get about 25 miles.

The estimate on the display is not 100% accurate and it's just an "estimate".

 

[Browneye]

Some would argue that charging to 100% every time taxes L-Ion batteries more than stopping at 80-90%. So a good reason to go to 100 is if you have range anxiety, and a good reason not to is if you have battery lifetime anxiety .

You might find 5 or 10% difference over 500 cycles. For most this is ten years or so, and not something for the average rider to worry about. Charge and go!!

 

[Yamahonian]

Yamaha has no way for consumers to do so that I'm aware of, other than with a 25% range of results.

From an earlier post by who I can't recall:

By pressing down the button on the battery for a given amount of time, you can obtain information about:

• The number of cycles: this tells you how many times the battery has been fully charged.
• The absolute battery capacity: tells you how much energy storage capacity the battery has lost since it was new. A new battery has an absolute battery capacity of 100%, whereas a battery that has lost 26% of its energy capacity will have an absolute battery capacity of 74%. The absolute battery capacity is expressed in 25% increments.

Determining the number of battery cycles

The LEDs are assigned numbers in the following order:

4 ---- (F)
3 ---
2 --
1 - (E)

Press the button on your battery for 20 seconds. The following led combinations give you the number of cycles:

Led 1 Blinking: 0 to 100 cycles
Led 1 On: 101 to 200 cycles

Led 1, 2 Blinking: 201 to 300 cycles
Led 1, 2 On: 301 to 400 cycles

Led 1, 2, 3 Blinking: 401 to 500 cycles
Led 1, 2, 3 On: 501 to 600 cycles

Led 1, 2, 3, 4 Blinking: 601 to 700 cycles
Let 1, 2, 3, 4 On: 701 or more cycles

Note: A new battery should only have led 1 blinking.

Determining the absolute battery capacity

The LEDs are ordered in the same manner as for the previous test.

Press the button on your battery for 30 seconds. The following led combinations give you the absolute capacity:

Led 1 on: 0 to 24 % capacity
Led 1, 2 on: 25% to 49% capacity
Led 1, 2, 3 on: 50 to 74% capacity
Led 1, 2, 3, 4 on: 75 to 100% capacity

Note: A new battery should have all 4 leds turned on.

Thank you so much for this, my battery passed both tests - one light blinking after 20s, and 4 lights on after 30 sec.

@Mike TowpathTraveler I went out for another ride this morning, and thought about what you said. I got much better battery life. Previously, I had lived in the two smallest cogs, and didn't bother shifting. If I came up on a bit of an incline, I just mashed the pedals for a few seconds to get up. Today I spent more time in gears 6-9, and watched the power meter. My actual battery life was worse than the estimate by about 15%, which is a big improvement. It was also around 60 degrees today, vs. 40 yesterday, which probably helped a lot.

In conclusion my battery is fine.

 

[Browneye]

I ride both of my yammer drives on mostly level 3, they get very good range. If I bump them up to 4 the pack drains much quicker, range shortens up. As I get more fit I will likely use level 2 more to extend range.
Choosing a lower gear and keeping your cadence up also helps a lot. I'm constantly hitting the limiter on both my bikes.
Some derestrict for even more speed, but that really uses up the juice!

 

[Oski1997]

T

I have a new bike with a Yamaha PW-X Motor and 500wH Yamaha battery.

On today's ride, I began with 92% charge. The expected range, on the high power setting, was 51 miles at the start of my trip.

I rode a total of 28 actual miles, and ended my day with 10% charge remaining.

Therefore, I got 28 miles out of 82% battery charge. Not nearly what I was expecting.

Outside temperature was about 42 degrees. I ride with an upright seating position (stem riser). Not an overly windy day. It was a completely flat bike trail, I am mainly riding in the three smallest rear cogs. Average 15mph.

Does that sound right, or is there something wrong with my battery?

that doesn’t sound right. I can go 57 miles on a 500wh battery always using the 2 highest settings for 3.5 hours with an elevation gain of 3,000 feet. Starting at 90% (I don’t charge above 90%) and going down to 30% gets me 42 miles. The next 25% gets me 15 miles = 57 miles total. I’ve never used my battery below 5%. I hope this helps