Why no Specialized e-assisted fat bikes?

[Chazmo]

Hi gang,

I tried searching around a bit, but I’ve been wondering why Specialized isn’t (still) making a fat-tired e-Bike. I think there used to be a “turbo” fat-tire model. While I’m on the subject, do they still even make the (unassisted) Fatboy model? I can’t really tell from web searches whether I’m looking at old/used bikes or new.

I’m figuring I probably missed a discussion or two around this subject from a few years ago (sorry, I’m a fairly new member), but was wondering if anyone captured what was going on.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

How fat is "fat" here — 4" and above?

The Globe Haul cargo ebike has 3.5" tires, but it's unlike any other Specialized ebike.

In Specialized's official US online tire catalog, 2.6" is the widest I could find.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A fat e-bike is good for riding deep snow, deep sand or a bog. Except these three activities, fat bike offers no advantage. Specialized is a cycling company and leaves fat e-bikes worth a thousand dollar to rubbish overseas companies

 

[Chazmo]

A fat e-bike is good for riding deep snow, deep sand or a bog. Except these three activities, fat bike offers no advantage. Specialized is a cycling company and leaves fat e-bikes worth a thousand dollar to rubbish overseas companies

Well, I get this answer, Stefan. I don’t agree with it — and I realize some of this is tongue in cheek — but no doubt that’s how most Specialized riders look at this situation. As an aging, long-time mountain biker, I was delighted to enter the world of fat e-bikes a little over a year ago and I have not looked back. As a matter of fact, I made some changes to my Merlin mountain bike that I’ve had for over 20 years to try to get comfortable with it as an aging dude, but am still not happy with the geometry or even the relatively narrow tires. It certainly doesn’t make me want to ride for hours anymore like I used to!

Anyway, I know there’s no point in justifying the breed that I like to ride here, and we’re all out to have great rides on our bikes… I’m just really curious if there was ever any clear statement or reasons presented by Specialized as to why they abandoned the market. I am correct, right, that there used to be electric versions of their Fatboy model (wasn’t called that though, I think)?

There is certainly a huge shakeout occurring in the fat bike arena. I saw it with my own 15-year-established Juiced bikes and it’s indeed fueled by the influx of overseas crap. But, I think Specialized’s exit from this arena took place before this. Again, am I right?

How fat is "fat" here — 4" and above?

The Globe Haul cargo ebike has 3.5" tires, but it's unlike any other Specialized ebike.

In Specialized's official US online tire catalog, 2.6" is the widest I could find.

Hi Jeremy,

That’s actually a great question. Yes, I’d say 4” is a minimum tire width to be a fat bike. To me the biggest thing in my definition (and I realize I”m narrowing it down here) is that it’s an all terrain bike that’s way more comfortable / relaxed riding position. It looks like my Juiced bike, as many of them do, and I can ride trails for hours and enjoy riding.

I realize also that there are fat cargo bikes, fat dirt-style bikes, and other types. Those are not exactly what I’m referring to here.

 

[e-levity]

Ari Explorer Peak carbon, 27.5 x 4.5” tires, Shimano drive,720w battery

https://aribikes.com/products/explorer-peak

 

[gromike]

For some of us a 2 inch tire is fat. Personally, I like nimble and light in bikes, and I prefer suspension in the frame.
Of course, it's your choice of what to ride. People do seem to love their fatties. It makes me cringe though. I remember when fatties became popular in the age before ubiquitous ebikes. You'd see people pedaling, using them as road bikes. Gluttons for punishment or slaves to fashion, I guessed then.

 

[e-levity]

For some of us a 2 inch tire is fat. Personally, I like nimble and light in bikes . . . . Gluttons for punishment . . .

Haha, try your 2” tires in deep snow or sand!
You’ll learn about punishment

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Anyway, I know there’s no point in justifying the breed that I like to ride here, and we’re all out to have great rides on our bikes…

That's the bottom line. The best bike is the one that makes you want to ride more. No more justification required.

Coastal SoCal is crawling with e-fatties — mostly cruisers and 20" RadRover types, but also some performance-oriented designs. Lots of smiles on all of them, so they're fulfilling their primary duty. Many also do transport and utility duty.

Why so popular? Guessing the generally upright riding position, cushy ride, curb-hopping ability, and cool/badass look all figure in. Other attractions? (Honest question.)

Beach/surfing culture's big here, all ages, and fat tires make it look like you're ready to ride the sand at any moment. That's allowed nearly everywhere, but fact is, very few actually do. And that despite the fact that nearly any bike can ride damp, packed low-tide sand.

My 38 mm gravel tires work just fine on the right beach sand. And even the fatties seem to avoid the loose, dry stuff.

Maybe fatties are needed on another common beach surface here — loose rounded cobble with little or no sand mixed in. Treacherous stuff, like riding on ball bearings — even on my hub-drive's 2.3" hybrid tires. Would fat tires make this stuff rideable?

 

[Gionnirocket]

It doesn't take long for the bike nazis to form a circle_jerk.
As Mr. Jeremy says... Any bike you enjoy is not only a good bike, it's the best bike if it's yours.

 

[Chazmo]

Ari Explorer Peak carbon, 27.5 x 4.5” tires, Shimano drive,720w battery

https://aribikes.com/products/explorer-peak

@e-levity: I’m sorry, is this a Specialized sub-brand? Just curious about the context for this post.

 

[Chazmo]

That's the bottom line. The best bike is the one that makes you want to ride more. No more justification required.

Coastal SoCal is crawling with e-fatties — mostly cruisers and 20" RadRover types, but also some performance-oriented designs. Lots of smiles on all of them, so they're fulfilling their primary duty. Many also do transport and utility duty.

Why so popular? Guessing the generally upright riding position, cushy ride, curb-hopping ability, and cool/badass look all figure in. Other attractions? (Honest question.)

I’m not sure it’s another attraction, but I guess I’d phrase it that my 1000+W hub-drive fatty provides sufficient assist when I need it to keep me comfortable riding trails all day — well all half-day, as 50 miles is about all I can expect. I should mention that I almost never use the throttle as I’m a pedaler… That was always my intent, to get exercise while spending my days out on the trails.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Chazmo:
You seem to be the same kind of fat bike fan as one Grubool (Fat Man) in Warsaw. He and his buddy are the only commonly known Warsaw traditional fat bike pedallers. The man is loaded and he owns at least four pedal fat bikes including a carbon one. Maciek (it is his first name) organizes many group rides of a different level of difficulty, and he always gathers at least 16 riders, all of them riding regular XC bikes. The crowd is attracted by this phrase: "We are riding slowly" Why it is slow is understandable: the man and his buddy simply cannot ride fast. Any advantages of a fat bike here? Deep sand (we do not miss it) or deep snow. Disadvantages? Fancy a street paved with rough cobblestone. I ride my 42 mm Vado SL on the cobble and am singing but Maciek rides the roadside! Why is not his fat bike good for the cobbles remains a mystery to me. Or, we ride a singletrack full of tree-roots. His fat bike is veering off the line while the other riders just ride straight. Finally... On one of the rides Grubool got as many as six flats (then I stopped counting). The group got quite irritated with that!

Quite inspiring, isn't it.

Now, Specialized. My search proved Specialized last released the Fatboy in 2015. It was not selling at all as I could still see it in the showroom some three years ago. The Juiced Ripcurrent S is a US$2,500 e-bike. Where is the money for Specialized there? A 1,000+ W motor? Illegal even in the U.S. A hub motor? Not Specialized. (Globe is not Turbo). Throttle? Illegal where Specialized gets its most money. Even Juiced describes this e-bike as "unclassified".

If you still refer to the Globe Hauls ST then...

This is a Turbo. Turbo Porto. A 2.2 mid-drive motor, no throttle, unavailable in North America.

You asked why Specialized didn't make fat bikes or e-bikes and I think my post includes all the answers

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I’m not sure it’s another attraction, but I guess I’d phrase it that my 1000+W hub-drive fatty provides sufficient assist when I need it to keep me comfortable riding trails all day — well all half-day, as 50 miles is about all I can expect. I should mention that I almost never use the throttle as I’m a pedaler… That was always my intent, to get exercise while spending my days out on the trails.

Interesting. More honest questions:

Q1. Do you need fat tires to get all that power to the ground without slip on your trails?

Q2. Do they help or hurt with cornering or general handling at the speeds you ride?

 

[Chazmo]

@Stefan Mikes , Mr. Grabool sounds like a riot. Gosh, I didn’t even know there was such a thing as a carbon fat bike! For the record, I am plenty fast. In all honesty, I have had no problems at all with flats on my bike. Or, rooted single-tracks for that matter. I don’t have any cobblestones around here to ride on, but the potholes on the roads around here are fairly infamous… I’m not sure any bikes would want to ride through those.

The only surface that dissuades me is ice. Oh, and perhaps more than 3” of snow… but up to that is fine and actually a lot of fun. I haven’t ridden on beach sand, but I carry a portable tire inflater so I’d love to try that at about 15PSI someday (I usually ride ~40PSI)! Anyway, I’m considering getting studded tires for next winter’s trail riding as the big problem until recently around here was my favorite trails were iced over. I had enough falls on mountain bike tires on ice in my past and the laws of physics just are what they are.

@Jeremy McCreary It isn’t so much that I’m avoiding slipping the rear wheel, but that power gives me enormous flexibility in uphill trail riding. I mean, I can cook if I want to, and I’m confident doing it. The fat tires also give me comfort on trail downhills as well. As for cornering and handling, the bike is definitely slower handling. But, I don’t mind the tradeoff at all because I’m road riding in shitty conditions (road salt/sand) too as an alternative to the trails, and the fat bike builds confidence (for me) in those conditions.

 

[Chazmo]

@Stefan Mikes I was referring to the “Turbo Levo” like the following, that I saw when web searching around:

Turbo Levo Comp Fat

The Turbo Levo Comp Fat bike was built to go anywhere, ride anything, and to do it all with ease. It provides all of the trail manners that our fat bike...

www.specialized.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Stefan Mikes I was referring to the “Turbo Levo” like the following, that I saw when web searching around:

Turbo Levo Comp Fat

The Turbo Levo Comp Fat bike was built to go anywhere, ride anything, and to do it all with ease. It provides all of the trail manners that our fat bike...

www.specialized.com

It simply didn't sell.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Ride what you want...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Ride what you want...

Unless it is a Specialized fat e-bike

 

[Gionnirocket]

A fat tire bike requires power especially if used as originally designed... challenging terrain such as sand and snow.
Specialized has no experience with this as their focus is underpowered EU compliant children's toys and stroking the ego of the simple while they empty their pockets.
As you can see their only attempt failed miserably so it's best just to look elsewhere if you want to ride with the big boys.

 

[jabberwocky]

Fat tires enjoyed a blip of popularity in the MTB world several years back. They had gone back to the niche for which they were originally developed (sand and snow) before ebikes took them up as a cheap way to make the bike ride more "comfortably". I think rad popularized this with the original rad rover circa 2016? They have their advantages; for moderate speed commuting they are cheap way to get some cushion and give decent traction on soft surfaces, but generally are slow rolling and squirmy in corners (unless you inflate them to a higher psi in which case you lose the cushioning and float, or you run some of the new breed of fat tires that are designed for high powered emotos and are basically moto tires).

As for why Spec doesn't sell an e-fat, I think its likely a combination of 1: not wanting to compete at the low end with the flood of cheap chinese imports, 2: marketing to traditional cyclists who generally aren't interested in fat bikes, 3: mainly selling at the high end where there is budget to solve the issues fat tires solve in a more effective way (with actual suspension and better quality tires), and 4: selling legally compliant bikes which don't have thousands of watts to spin up heavy tires.