Why do you prefer a derailleur vs IGH (Internally Geared Hub)?

[Alaskan]

All things break and have issues. Rohloffs are generally very reliable.

Probably the most documented reliable drive train. Not perfect, as I can well attest, but still more dependable, with the least routine maintenance, than any other setup.

 

[TimJohn]

Everyone seems for forget that the IGH can be shifted when the bike is stopped all the way from their top gear down to their lowest gear. A derailure system can't do this.

 

[Nova Haibike]

I would LOVE to see an electrified version of the Pinion gearbox. Not one paired with a hub motor, but an integrated mid-motor and gearbox.

 

[steve mercier]

Wow, I had no idea how much discussion this topic would bring.

I am well aware that:
Nuvinci N380 ≈ 83% efficient.
Rohloff ≈ 94%
Classic derailer ≈ 95%.
I'm also well aware of the price differences between these systems. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I'm well aware of all their benefits and shortcomings, everything is a trade off.

The majority of people I know don't know how to do any kind of maintenance to their car, besides taking it to a mechanic once a year for an oil change and tune-up. I don't think it's smart for these people (which is a LOT of people) to switch to an electric bicycle with a derailer. They're going to end up constantly being stuck without a means of transportation. Their chain, derailer, and cogs will constantly break, because they're never going to oil their chain themselves, or know how to fix their derailer if it bends. People don't want to have to do mainanance (or take their bicycle into a shop) every 100 or so miles. Yeah, every bike shop knows how to fix/replace derailers, but it happens a lot more often from the statistics I've seen. Imagine having to lube your car's engine every 100 or so miles to keep it working properly. That would be ridiculous, yet it's perfectly acceptable to ask someone to do this on an E-bike?

People will bring their E-bike into a shop for an oil change of their motor or IGH once or twice a year, but having to do this once every 1-2 months is too much to ask of most people. Which is why I feel that if you want to get as many people as possible to switch from using a car to an electronic bike (which I would hope is most people's goal on these forums), you need that bike to be as reliable and maintenance-free as possible... Whichever way that is. Evan at the cost of efficiency.

I have a new found respect for the Nuvinci hub since Marcparis stated that during his 2 year odyssey he has put 48,000 km and counting on his original Nuvinci system with no problems !

 

[byunbee]

I have high hopes for Kindernay. I will likely choose that option for my new Watt Wagons UC Pro.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I have a new found respect for the Nuvinci hub since Marcparis stated that during his 2 year odyssey he has put 48,000 km and counting on his original Nuvinci system with no problems !

I was surprised to read that he has over 45,000 kms and he is still using the original belt and the Enviolo hub. That is quite impressive. I looked at all the photos and he is indeed traveling across the world.
He has already saved tons of time and money on maintenance and spare parts.

@Marcparis I think it is time to change the belt and sprocket after 45,000 kms. That is truly an exceptional number but if it fails in the middle of a desert, it will be hard on you.

 

[drewberz]

Wow, I had no idea how much discussion this topic would bring.

I am well aware that:
Nuvinci N380 ≈ 83% efficient.
Rohloff ≈ 94%
Classic derailer ≈ 95%.
I'm also well aware of the price differences between these systems. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I'm well aware of all their benefits and shortcomings, everything is a trade off.

The majority of people I know don't know how to do any kind of maintenance to their car, besides taking it to a mechanic once a year for an oil change and tune-up. I don't think it's smart for these people (which is a LOT of people) to switch to an electric bicycle with a derailer. They're going to end up constantly being stuck without a means of transportation. Their chain, derailer, and cogs will constantly break, because they're never going to oil their chain themselves, or know how to fix their derailer if it bends. People don't want to have to do mainanance (or take their bicycle into a shop) every 100 or so miles. Yeah, every bike shop knows how to fix/replace derailers, but it happens a lot more often from the statistics I've seen. Imagine having to lube your car's engine every 100 or so miles to keep it working properly. That would be ridiculous, yet it's perfectly acceptable to ask someone to do this on an E-bike?

People will bring their E-bike into a shop for an oil change of their motor or IGH once or twice a year, but having to do this once every 1-2 months is too much to ask of most people. Which is why I feel that if you want to get as many people as possible to switch from using a car to an electronic bike (which I would hope is most people's goal on these forums), you need that bike to be as reliable and maintenance-free as possible... Whichever way that is. Evan at the cost of efficiency.

Conditions matter a lot too, so if that classic derailleur and chain are gummed up, expect low 90's. So the tradeoff in efficiency between a IGH and chain becomes negligible or even non-existent.

 

[drewberz]

Ah. Having two wheel sets with the IGH? Good luck.

Not sure what you are responding too, but this is part of Kindernay's solution with a shell that you can remove the hub from so you can use multiple wheelsets.

 

[drewberz]

I have no problem removing the rear wheel and replacing the carbon belt on a Riese & Muller Homage. I guess if you have a bike where you need to take the chain stay apart, that adds a level of difficulty. With the Riese & Muller they put a high idler pully just behind and near the top of the motor that the bottom of the belt rides up and over, eliminating any need to break the chain stay.

It is handy to be able to remove the wheel quickly to fix flat tires, change tires, tune up the wheel's spoke tension, adjust fenders, etc. With the Homage I loosen the spindle, holding on to the top of the tire so it stays in place. The I let the hub drop down slightly, just below the droppouts. At that point it can go forward about an inch (2mm) or so which is enough slack to pull the belt off the rear drive ring. If the belt is on a Rohloff hub with the E14 don't forget to unplug the electric cable to the E14 mech on the left side of the bike. It is a two prong, rubber coated, two part male and female plug that is snug but will separate. It is important to remember to plug it back in as your last step in reinstalling the back wheel, otherwise you will get an error message and the shifter won't work.

View attachment 56119

Even with just these 'simple' steps, I would conjecture this puts you in the 80th percentile of people who are a) able and b) willing. So, best that the wheel very infrequently requires removal (few tire punctures, high-mileage tires, high-mileage belts, etc.).

 

[AlanDB]

It is obvious that there are many different but valid opinions for likes/dislikes regarding IGH vs derailleur. In my case, the only way you will replace my IGH with a derailleur is to pry my cold dead hands off of the shifter on the handlebar.

 

[Nova Haibike]

My biggest gripe against IGH is the general lack of shifters for drop bars. I know third-party options exist, but it would be nice if there were OEM product available.

 

[teskow]

Just finished looking at an antique truck magazine. They all had chain drives.

 

[indianajo]

I bought an IGH, SA S80. It added 10% to my self powered time over 27 miles. The derailleur is faster. Back to derailleur.
Most people here do not ride self powered. I find 20 -70 miles/week self powered on bicycle keeps my heart "with nothing wrong" (Floyd Hosp. cardiologist) , without time wasted in a gym where I catch viruses. I'm age 70. I use the electricity to keep my commute times from doubling (to 6 hours) when wind is unfavorable - which happens as much as 10% of the time with the new globally warmed weather around here. Gluteal pain limits ride duration to about 4 hours; no 8 hour all day electric rides for me unless I move the fat on my abdomen to my hips or find a more comfortable seat.
With my biweekly chain oil regime, changing chain is every 2 years, ~4000 miles. I do it simultaneous with annual tire change. With clarks/jaguar cables & sram shifters, shifter adjustment is not required. Cleaning chain is not required, unless I tangle up a load binder cord in the sprocket. Derailleur takeup replacement is about every 6000 miles. I get rained on about 10% of the trips, which takes out the electric throttle about twice a year.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Reviving an older thread and asking something I don’t think was touched on yet. I’m considering a bike with an IGH (Bulls Lacuba Evo Lite...Shimano Nexus 5)
Is the range of the five gears decent? That is, are they lousy climbers? I’ll ride mostly on the flats but do have several long climbs in the area. I wouldn’t want to discover it isn’t up to it. I’m pretty sure I won’t get to test ride one.
My bike wishlist increases five-fold if I were to go back to a bike with a conventional chain and derailleur. Not too psyched about dropping the extra $$$ for a Rohloff equipped R&M.

 

[Alaskan]

My bike wishlist increases five-fold if I were to go back to a bike with a conventional chain and derailleur. Not too psyched about dropping the extra $$$ for a Rohloff equipped R&M.

I felt the the same way until I surrendered to the fact that with a Rohloff and belt, Riese & Muller bikes really do check almost all the boxes except two, price and weight. After that first R&M bike, a Homage Rolhloff HS, arrived my riding became a daily occurrence, weather permitting. I was looking for every opportunity ride, it was such a pleasure. Every ride put a big stupid smile on my face. The pleasure of riding such a steady, well equipped, comfortable, unique and well thought out bike made the pain of having paid so much fade very quickly. It put me on a track of loosing 30 lbs and resulted in an amazed cardiologist when after two years of riding, my ejection fraction climbed from 35 after my heart attack to 45. he tagged me with the nickname "miracle man" How do you put a price on that?

I am not saying that a Riese & Muller bike is the best choice for you. But I would urge you to start at the top of your budget range and even if it hurts, when the final decision is made and you have to go beyond that number to get what your really want, do it. Any misgivings, will be quickly put in the rear view mirror as you ride and you will have a bike more likely to keep a big smile on your face too.

 

[steve mercier]

Reviving an older thread and asking something I don’t think was touched on yet. I’m considering a bike with an IGH (Bulls Lacuba Evo Lite...Shimano Nexus 5)
Is the range of the five gears decent? That is, are they lousy climbers? I’ll ride mostly on the flats but do have several long climbs in the area. I wouldn’t want to discover it isn’t up to it. I’m pretty sure I won’t get to test ride one.
My bike wishlist increases five-fold if I were to go back to a bike with a conventional chain and derailleur. Not too psyched about dropping the extra $$$ for a Rohloff equipped R&M.

THe EBR member Marcparis has travelled extensively across Europe and Asia with no problems with his Enviolo / Nuvinci IGH . .at last account over 48,000 km. He must have enountered a few hills along the way?

 

[Petropoliskhan]

I bought an IGH, SA S80. It added 10% to my self powered time over 27 miles. The derailleur is faster. Back to derailleur.
Most people here do not ride self powered. I find 20 -70 miles/week self powered on bicycle keeps my heart "with nothing wrong" (Floyd Hosp. cardiologist) , without time wasted in a gym where I catch viruses. I'm age 70. I use the electricity to keep my commute times from doubling (to 6 hours) when wind is unfavorable - which happens as much as 10% of the time with the new globally warmed weather around here. Gluteal pain limits ride duration to about 4 hours; no 8 hour all day electric rides for me unless I move the fat on my abdomen to my hips or find a more comfortable seat.
With my biweekly chain oil regime, changing chain is every 2 years, ~4000 miles. I do it simultaneous with annual tire change. With clarks/jaguar cables & sram shifters, shifter adjustment is not required. Cleaning chain is not required, unless I tangle up a load binder cord in the sprocket. Derailleur takeup replacement is about every 6000 miles. I get rained on about 10% of the trips, which takes out the electric throttle about twice a year.

Thank you Indianajo for bringing up the "derailleur is faster" point.
Court has often mentioned in passing, during his reviews that he prefers derailleurs because they are more sporty @AbeK , @Ravi Kempaiah ,@Johnny and others would probably agree and they know, have ridden all kinds of bikes with different transmissions.
The maintenance issue and cost are of course important considerations. But how about riding pleasure?
A well maintained , quality derailleur often has a very wide ratio of gearing, is efficient, sportier, faster than IGH and provides IMO very pleasurable riding experience. Some of us don't want the "hassle" of regular maintenance. I understand that. However others gladly accept the tradeoff of regular maintenance in favor of the involvement , the feel of a smooth, well lubricated, fast shifting no clucking transmission.
The learning curve of maintenance , getting to know your bike by servicing it yourself also has it's rewards. I would bet that the overwhelming majority of frequent posters on this forum have intimate knowledge of their bike(s) and take pride in the diy approach whenever possible.
One could reasonably assume that if you can change the tire on a IGH / belt driven bike (that requires careful tensioning) You are more than likely able to do basic chain derailleur stuff on your own. It doesn't have to take long if you do it regularly and is also in your financial interest to take care of you very expensive bike. Road bikers do it all the time on their multi thousand $$$ bikes too.
comes with the territory..
Commuting daily on any bike is a commitment. You choose to forego things like comfort, sometimes speed in favor of health , environmental conditions

 

[Alaskan]

Thank you Indianajo for bringing up the "derailleur is faster" point.
Court has often mentioned in passing, during his reviews that he prefers derailleurs because they are more sporty @AbeK , @Ravi Kempaiah ,@Johnny and others would probably agree and they know, have ridden all kinds of bikes with different transmissions.
The maintenance issue and cost are of course important considerations. But how about riding pleasure?
A well maintained , quality derailleur is efficient, sportier, faster than IGH and provides IMO very pleasurable riding experience. Some of us don't want the "hassle" of regular maintenance. I understand that. However others gladly accept the tradeoff of regular maintenance in favor of the involvement , the feel of a smooth, well lubricated, fast shifting no clucking transmission.
The learning curve of maintenance , getting to know your bike by servicing it yourself also has it's rewards.

Another point worth considering is that the more exotic and rare your drive train, the more likely it is for it to take lots of time to get parts and harder to find people capable of properly working on it. Every bike mechanic knows how to install, service, adjust and find parts for a derailleur system. You are more likely to have your bike out of service for a much shorter period with a derailleur. I learned this lesson the hard way with a 3 month period of an expensive bike sidelined in its first year of service due to lack of adequate parts availability in North America (pre covid) and lousy service from the only designated warranty service provider in the US.

 

[Art Deco]

Another point worth considering is that the more exotic and rare your drive train, the more likely it is for it to take lots of time to get parts and harder to find people capable of properly working on it. Every bike mechanic knows how to install, service, adjust and find parts for a derailleur system. You are more likely to have your bike out of service for a much shorter period with a derailleur. I learned this lesson the hard way with a 3 month period of an expensive bike sidelined in its first year of service due to lack of adequate parts availability in North America (pre covid) and lousy service from the only designated warranty service provider in the US.

Exactly this. I bought my Como with deraillier vs my second choice Momentum with an IGH because I expect to travel with the bikes and (hopefully) any bike shop can fix a deraillier issue with parts they have in stock. If I was planning to only ride locally we have a great Giant dealer locally.

 

[Luto]

Since the OP asked for personal opinions...

I like derailleurs. High end ones. I like the aesthetic and the fact I can do all the work to clean and maintain them, and then go use them. It is a fun "chore" and you get the reward of usage. I can check them for wear, or potential problems before they happen. I can see how they are operating to gauge the performance. I can go into any LBS and get parts or replacements. I like the way they shift and the feel of the wheels from the cranks. A little bit different depending upon the gears and the front-rear offset with a 2x front.

I put 1700 miles on mine (GRX 810) with simple cleaning-lube and just did a through clean up. I got a nice silent purr again by my own hands. Minimum wear also. I ride gravel dirt too. And the whole system got better at about 300 and then 800 miles.

BTW if you are talking about top of the line IGH, like Rolhoff, then one should compare it to a top of the line derailleur system, like a Campagnolo Record. Hand assembled and tuned. Talk about a fine bit of machinery. If you have not used a top of the line derailleur system, then one should, at least once. All that excellent engineering and you can maintain it and then go use it. That is what I like.