Which KT Controllers are Sensorless

[dherman304]

Learned a lot recently about Ebikes after buying a non-working one. I think the aftermarket controller currently in it is bad (Brainpower 800a-6) because the wheel won't spin unless I hold the "C" button on the display (LOL). Looking at switching to a KT controller. Currently looking at KT36 17A Square Wave but I can't determine if ALL square wave KT controllers are sensorless or just some. I want sensorless as I don't trust the hall sensors in the motor and can't access them to replace them. Also I currently have a torque sensor plate on the axle, I'm assuming this won't work with the KT controller, so I guess Ill also need a PAS?

In short
Question 1: Can all KT Square wave (ZWS in the model name) controllers run sensorless, if not, which ones can?
Question 2: Can I use the KT controller sensorless and without a PAS or do I also need a PAS?

 

[harryS]

Not all KT square wave controllers run sensorless. Mainly the higher current ones are sensorless, but I gave you a link in the other thread to a KT 17A unit that should run sensorless. It will have a different connector, if you want the waterproof motor connect, but you can buy a 9 pin adapter cable if necessary.
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Not all brainpower stuff sucks, but I think the S866 display feels like crap. The S866 won't work with a KT anyway. You will need to buy a new display to really take advantage of the KT capabilities.
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If you don't want PAS. don't use the sensor. Now it's a throttle only bike. Otherwise, buy a KT PAS sensor, probably the integrated all-in-one unit, not the ones with external magnet rings.

 

[dherman304]

Not all KT square wave controllers run sensorless. Mainly the higher current ones are sensorless, but I gave you a link in the other thread to a KT 17A unit that should run sensorless. It will have a different connector, if you want the waterproof motor connect, but you can buy a 9 pin adapter cable if necessary.
.
Not all brainpower stuff sucks, but I think the S866 display feels like crap. The S866 won't work with a KT anyway. You will need to buy a new display to really take advantage of the KT capabilities.
.
If you don't want PAS. don't use the sensor. Now it's a throttle only bike. Otherwise, buy a KT PAS sensor, probably the integrated all-in-one unit, not the ones with external magnet rings.

I went ahead and bought the controller, display, and PAS sensor from GBK. My biggest problem was dimensions. the 36/48v controller wouldnt fit in the frame so im trying to stretch a 24/36v 250W controller.

24V/36V 250W 15A Brushless DC Square Wave Controller ebike Electric Bicycle Hub Motor Controller with right output

24V/36V 250W 15A Brushless DC Square Wave Controller ebike Electric Bicycle Hub Motor Controller with right output

pswpower.com

 

[PCeBiker]

If you don't want PAS. don't use the sensor. Now it's a throttle only bike. Otherwise, buy a KT PAS sensor, probably the integrated all-in-one unit, not the ones with external magnet rings.

I just ordered a KT controller/display and I don't want to use PAS, although I do have a PAS sensor.

I was wondering if I can set my display to PAS 0 and use the throttle to pick a speed/power setting then use the "-" button to lock in a cruise control speed/power.
I heard that if the cruise control is being used, it cuts out as soon as you start pedaling again.

Do I have to disconnect my PAS sensor to maintain the set speed/power during cruise to keep the power on if I want to pedal?

Is there a throttle setting that I can use to allow me to set a cruise control speed/power while I pedal along to help?

 

[harryS]

I believe you can turn on throttle without PAS on all of the KT LCD displays.including the LCD1. On my LCD3, I set the C4 parameter to 4 to always have throttle.
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There were two ways to invoke cruise with my LCD3. The C7 setting has to be 1 to enable it. Then, pushing the "v" button would lock in the throttle setting. There was also a jumper on the controller wires. If the throttle were held for more than 15 seconds, it would also lock into cruise if the jumper was set. I never cared to test cruise, so I never invoked C7, However, I know the jumper works.

 

[PCeBiker]

I believe you can turn on throttle without PAS on all of the KT LCD displays.including the LCD1. On my LCD3, I set the C4 parameter to 4 to always have throttle.
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There were two ways to invoke cruise with my LCD3. The C7 setting has to be 1 to enable it. Then, pushing the "v" button would lock in the throttle setting. There was also a jumper on the controller wires. If the throttle were held for more than 15 seconds, it would also lock into cruise if the jumper was set. I never cared to test cruise, so I never invoked C7, However, I know the jumper works.

Does the cruise turn off when you start pedaling again?

 

[harryS]

Does cruise turn off with PAS? Not in the case when it starts with a jumper enabled and a constant throttle, You can be pedaling and if the throttle is on long enough, it goes into cruise.

Don't know about the other mode with it turned on via display button . Never used it. The above mode superceded it on our bikes.

 

[PCeBiker]

Thank you

I bought the 25 amp controller with waterproof plugs and 1T5 cable.

This is the waterproof plus SM connector version of what I bought.

Do you know what terminals were jumpered?

I'm guessing the PAS sensor?

 

[PCeBiker]

If the throttle were held for more than 15 seconds, it would also lock into cruise if the jumper was set. I never cared to test cruise, so I never invoked C7, However, I know the jumper works.

That's exactly how my other e-bike works. It has no PAS sensor.
I like the way it works and want to get my new e-bike to work the same way.

 

[PCeBiker]

@harryS
My new controller and display arrived and unfortunately, my motor cable doesn't fit.
I have an Etcycle T1000 with a Das-Kit motor that uses what is probably a proprietary connector?

I was wondering if my controller will run sensorless?
I'm worried that the pin configuration is different and I don't know how to check the wiring or if I have to take my motor apart to see where the wires go?

I'm wondering if I can just connect the three big "phase" wires and forget the rest?
All that I care to see on my display are voltage and power. The rest doesn't matter to me.

A basic electric motorcycle with a throttle, a Voltmeter, and a Watt meter are all I care for.

 

[harryS]

Is the Das Kit controller dead? If it is, you could splice its connector into the KT controller case. Colors probably match up. Or maybe buy a connector although I dunno where you buy it except from someone who blew up his Das Kit box,

-Three thick wires - yellow, green, blue
-Six thin wires - yellow, green, blue for position sensors, red and black for 5V power to the sensors, and white for a speed sensor.

 

[PCeBiker]

Is the Das Kit controller dead?

No, everything is working fine.
(until I start messing with it anyway. )

If it is, you could splice its connector into the KT controller case. Colors probably match up.

That's what I'm worried about. Maybe Das-Kit changed the color code and/or the pin configuration so people like me don't mess with it?

Or maybe buy a connector although I dunno where you buy it except from someone who blew up his Das Kit box,

Hmmm,..
That could be difficult?

-Three thick wires - yellow, green, blue
-Six thin wires - yellow, green, blue for position sensors, red and black for 5V power to the sensors, and white for a speed sensor.

That's probably all I need to know.
I can probe the motor cable wires and check the colors and resistance, voltage, and current flow, to figure out which wire is which.

The problem is that the Das-Kit Controller is fully potted and I don't think I can see where the wires are going to trace them?
(I haven't removed the Das-Kit Controller yet to see what I'm in for.)

I'm hoping to not butcher the Das-Kit Controller and it's wiring harness, PAS sensor, throttle, and brake cutoff switches so that I can sell it as a plug and play off-road kit to someone in Europe or Australia.

 

[PCeBiker]

red and black for 5V power to the sensors,

Thanks, I didn't know that.
I thought it was 48 volts. (like my battery.)
This is looking a little easier to accomplish.