Which is easier to repair/replace: hub or mid drive motors?
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AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Yes there are differences "in their service longevity, repair cost, repair history", and I would not say hub vs. mid are real similar in those respects. There's a TON written on this, and many debates regarding preferences. To take advantage of that, let Google be your friend.
Be happy to share an opinion regarding more specific questions, but the answers to do justice to your question(s) would fill a book.
Be happy to share an opinion regarding more specific questions, but the answers to do justice to your question(s) would fill a book.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
Removing or replacing a hub drive motor takes way more time due to the fact that it is laced into the wheel with all the spokes. A mid drive motor comes off after removing the cranks and the outer shell, with a few bolts and electrical plugs. As A Hicks said, service longevity, repair history and cost are other, far more complicated questions.
harryS
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry about either, but if the motor were to fail on your ebike a few years from now, the issue is not ease of replacement but whether parts are still available.
Mid motors tend to be brand specific and all the electronics are inside the housing, Makes for a modular and easily replaceable unit if a spare is available.
Hub motors are very simple. Most only carry 3 or 4 internal sensors, and the control electronics are usually external. A few proprietary systems may still exist, but the industry model is a generic wiring interface. While they would be indeed a PITA to replace, with the spoking, the whole wheel/motor assembly is inexpensive. So if your hub motor bike were to go bad, you can replace it with almost any other wheel. Ask A. Hicks, who put different motor on his 6 week old ebike because he needed more performance. And with hub motors, since the electronics are external, one can change those using anything that fits, although the labor to adapt connectors woud be expensive. That doesn't bother a hobbyist like me.
Connections and water ingress are the weak point for ebikes. Both of these have stopped me.
Mid motors tend to be brand specific and all the electronics are inside the housing, Makes for a modular and easily replaceable unit if a spare is available.
Hub motors are very simple. Most only carry 3 or 4 internal sensors, and the control electronics are usually external. A few proprietary systems may still exist, but the industry model is a generic wiring interface. While they would be indeed a PITA to replace, with the spoking, the whole wheel/motor assembly is inexpensive. So if your hub motor bike were to go bad, you can replace it with almost any other wheel. Ask A. Hicks, who put different motor on his 6 week old ebike because he needed more performance. And with hub motors, since the electronics are external, one can change those using anything that fits, although the labor to adapt connectors woud be expensive. That doesn't bother a hobbyist like me.
Connections and water ingress are the weak point for ebikes. Both of these have stopped me.
rich c
Well-Known Member
My personal experience, I had a Bafang geared hub motor fail a hall sensor at 1700 miles. No motor issues with 2 Bosch mid drives at 2800 miles. I got a replacement bike at 160 miles from Ruff when there was a loud knocking noise in the drive train. I couldn't tell if it was the motor or the Nuvinci gearless hub. It was a torque related issue.
AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I just order my new direct drive motor prelaced onto a new wheel. Makes the job go pretty easily. Old man working at a putter speed can have it done in an afternoon. Chances of having to do this to a DD rear hub pretty slim because they're so simple internally. Gear driven rear hub can have the motor or gears worked on, assuming you are going with the same brand and model, without having to change wheels. Pretty simple as well.
tomjasz
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- Minnesnowta
Are you buying a finished bike or kit building? How will you use your bike? Hills? Flat? So many questions.
Very few DIY builders ever lace a rim and motor. Most LBS will do the job for a pretty low price compared to the time I'd take. People here tend to steer new folks to whatever they bought or like best. All motor types serve their users well within certain parameters.
Without question, direct drive hub motors are the most reliable.
Very few DIY builders ever lace a rim and motor. Most LBS will do the job for a pretty low price compared to the time I'd take. People here tend to steer new folks to whatever they bought or like best. All motor types serve their users well within certain parameters.
Without question, direct drive hub motors are the most reliable.
I have a Bafang G311 and you don't have to remove the spokes to service it. Thats my understanding. These hub motors are supposedly easy to repair. It has lots of seals to make them water resistant. GRIN technologies has a video on taking apart a Bafang hub motor. Looks easy to do with just shop tools...no special pullers or hydraulic presses needed.
AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
[QUOTE Question: I've heard that the drag/resistance in pedal only mode is the least on geared hub motors? do direct drive hub & mid drive motors have noticeably more drag or not??[/QUOTE]
The direct drive rear hub has more drag on paper, but from a practical standpoint, it's not something you notice while riding it. Not for most of us anyway. The tiniest amount of power fed to a direct drive more than offsets any drag created when coasting - unless you are set up for and using regen. Then there's a bunch of drag!
The direct drive rear hub has more drag on paper, but from a practical standpoint, it's not something you notice while riding it. Not for most of us anyway. The tiniest amount of power fed to a direct drive more than offsets any drag created when coasting - unless you are set up for and using regen. Then there's a bunch of drag!
indianajo
Well-Known Member
I tried direct drive, but it drags unpowered like being in 2 higher sprockets than you really are. Having a geared hub motor unpowered is like having a human powered bike, until you decide to turn the electricity on. I ride mostly unpowered, if the wind in my face is not unusually strong. With a lot of hills, the geared motor uses about 2/3 the battery charge of the DD on the same route.
Yamaha mid drive is reputed to not drag when ridden unpowered. Other mid drives are reported unrideable if the system fails out on the road.
Nobody should bother to lace a new hub motor into the old wheel. The entire wheel & kit is quite economic, and bolts right in the dropout in your old frame. It's possible a new controller mount would be required if the plugs are incompatible, but mostly just plugging in the old one works. I laced in a Sturmey Archer geared hub I bought separately, and it took 3 orders to get spokes that would fit. The spoke calculators are a big fraud; at least they are free.
I think the biggest disadvantage of the geared hub motor is heat. If one intends to ride long steep grades as they have in California & Colorado, and carry cargo, don't buy one. I have roller hills here in Sou IN, but my motor case was quite hot after a fast trip last week. Electric-bikes.com cancelled my order for a mac 12 geared hub motor when he found out we have 15% grades here and I carry 60 lb cargo. I intend to buy some aluminum sheet & make a heat fin on my motor. The bafang 8fun geared motor is only 500 watts, I drag down to 6 mph loaded on the steep parts with a 1200 W Ly geared motor. I don't think internal gears are available for the LY motor.
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tomjasz
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Justin and Grin respond to mid drives.
https://www.ebikes.ca/learn/why-hub-motors-are-awesome.html
https://www.ebikes.ca/learn/why-hub-motors-are-awesome.html
Rodolfo
Member
My 6-year old Easy Motion has a hub motor that is still going strong and I've figured all along that it will outlast the battery. Thank you BH! If not, I'm confident I could get another wheel and hub or just hub to get it back on the road without too much trouble. Still, a quality replacement may not be worth it to me, and if I could not locate a good cheap or used one, I'd probably start shopping for a latest-generation, significantly-lighter replacement, maybe a little earlier than expected. --Isn't that the plan of most manufacturing? 
Who is BH???
Where do you live because in the GRIN's showroom there is a shelf of used parts and I saw some smaller G310 Bafang motors there. Go too Ebikes.ca and look at their products. Lots of choices for rear or front hub motors. They have a very informative site for those who like DIY.
Where do you live because in the GRIN's showroom there is a shelf of used parts and I saw some smaller G310 Bafang motors there. Go too Ebikes.ca and look at their products. Lots of choices for rear or front hub motors. They have a very informative site for those who like DIY.
You are unlikely to find anything this unbiased from any of the mid-drive manufacturers.
I think the primary point in this Grin Information is that if you are using your ebike exclusively/primarily for daily use commuting, riding on roads where maintaining a steady speed regardless of the hill grade is important, then a hub drive has an advantage vs mid-drives. Time is money when you are using an ebike for commuting to work or using a car substitute for short distance errands from the home so having the capability to maintain a higher average speed is important.
Few people seem to understand the advantages and disadvantages that are fairly presented in the Grin information so hopefully all current and future ebike owners will commit to educating themselves....and not just listen to marketing hype.
tomjasz
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- Minnesnowta
YES!
Rodolfo
Member
BH is the manufacturer of my Easy Motion bike: been making bikes since long before any of us were born. Bing for BH bikes.
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