which front wheel/hub fits my needs/wants?

[hankj]

I'm looking to add an electric front wheel to a Salsa Fargo. Not interested in a mid motor (want to leave drivetrain alone), nor a rear wheel (148mm boost spacing).

I am good at bike wrenching and DIY in general.

I'd like it to be:

disc brake
on the lighter end of the spectrum (light hub/motor most important - I can build/rebuild the wheel if need be)
longer range for given battery
pedelec
has battery option that can be taken on commercial flights. So160w/h max per battery (available at least if not part of original kit)
rolls well when shut off
reliable

I don't care about:

high power
high speed
throttles
price (though of course happy to not get overcharged!)

I have no idea about what's out there or about quality, so can you please point me to some of the best options for lighter front hub DIY pedelec system?

Thanks you!

 

[indianajo]

Geared hub motors do not drag the motor rotor with your feet when the electricity is shut off. They have a one way clutch internally. I ride mine about 60% that way unless the headwind is over 12 mph. Exception, the famous grin mac one. Watch out for the "regeneration" feature. Grin left out the one way clutch especially for electricity addicts.
The bafang 350 watt (input) geared hub motors are aluminum housed, pretty light. About 7 lb. Readily available. NOT suitable for climbing hills over 8% if you weigh over 180 lb with a 70 lb bicycle. I burned the winding on one before even reaching the 12% hills on my commute. Be careful not to buy the fat tire version which is even more available.
Controllers available on ebay in US universally have throttles and no PAS pickup. You have to send your card # to the land of counterfeiters & government employed hackers to get something with PAS input. ebikeling sells a motor+controller+brakehandles+paspickup+throttle kit from chicagoland but no telling what brand he has today. I liked my first from him @ 1300 w but when the gears wore out (4000 mi) there were no parts or replacements. Watch it, he also sells direct drive motors which are about 13 lb. DD motors use way too many watthours climbing hills slowly. DD motors drag like being in 2 higher sprockets with the electricity turned off. I parked mine after 2 months.
Batteries are available independently, but I got garbage from both amazon (btrbattery) and ebay (sun ebike baldwin city CA warehouse). California ebike is reputed to sell the better ones. I bought mine that has lasted 5 years from lunabikes, but he has exited the commuter market. Offroad racers is luna's specialty now.
Batteries are sized in watthours or amphours, with a voltage rating. Not watts. Watthours is amphours times nominal voltage as a first approximation.
Hilltopper sells tiny motors with tiny batteries included, but I excluded him because he is very expensive and I need 840 wh to reliably complete my commute one way. I was hoping for 50 mile range but didn't happen. My commute is 28 miles with 77 hills over a 200' rise.
Mahle motors are lighter, 250 w, but are for the rear only. The only way to get one is buy a bicycle, unfortunately.

 

[hankj]

indianajo thanks for the feedback, appreciated, particularly the warnings about market pitfalls.

Too bad the Mahle 250 is rear wheel only.

And yes watt hours - thanks - here's the language from TSA regarding what one can fly with. Might be best to have some less 100 watt hour options ...

Lithium batteries with more than 100 watt hours​

Carry On Bags: Yes (Special Instructions)
Checked Bags: No
Spare (uninstalled) lithium ion and lithium metal batteries, including power banks and cell phone battery charging cases, must be carried in carry-on baggage only.
With airline approval, passengers may also carry up to two spare larger lithium ion batteries (101–160 Wh) or lithium metal batteries (2-8 grams). This size covers the larger after-market extended-life laptop computer batteries and some larger batteries used in professional audio/visual equipment. There is a limit of two spare batteries per person for the larger lithium ion batteries described above (101–160 watt hours per battery. For more information, see the FAA regulations on batteries.

 

[hankj]

this set up would be for my 135ish lbs wife, btw, just an equalizer set up so when we bike tour she can sometimes use some power and our ability levels align. I tried a couple store bought ebikes for her, but she loves her Fargo and doesn't like to tour on anything else. Hard to blame her - Fargo one of the all time best all-road touring bikes for sure ....

 

[indianajo]

airnimal.com joey has a tiny folding electric bike that fits in a suitcase. https://airnimal.co/products/joey/pendix-e-bike/ 24" tires.
unfortunately battery is 300 wh.
I've been thinking of buying their joey commute unpowered bike (29 lb) then maybe putting a front hub motor on it. The fork is steel (required for front motor). I ride Greyhound Amtrak or city bus mostly so I don't have to worry about TSA. I like the bigger commute tires (1.5") instead of their road tires on the base joey model, for smoother ride. 22 vs 29 lb is no big deal to me. There are hundreds of 20" tire folders but running one of those through a pothole I find jaw-rattling.

 

[hankj]

Home

Bafang description

bafang-e.com

The hf-series h600 seems to be a front wheel motor? 250w, 1.7 kilos ...

 

[harryS]

The 160WH limit is tough. It's a small capacity battery. It would be like a 36V4AH or a 48V3AH. both 144 WH on paper, and having a range of 10-12 miles, maybe more if you pedal harder. Only one company made one, and that was Grin Technologies (ebikes.ca) and their 36V LiGo battery, no longer in production but they are working on a second geneartion. You can check thwie website to see if it's out yet. Their LiGo could be stacked in parallel to increase capacity or you could carry spares. If the LigO or its successor is not available, you will have to look at commercial tool batteries.
..
One advantage of Tool batteries is thay should go thru airport security. Doesn't solve the range problem, You have to carry spares. They are also more expensove.
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I think your criteria about flying your ebike batteries will be very hard to meet.
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I have converted two bikes to FWD. I don't have any hills that I cannot climb w/o a motor, so these bikes work for me. Both are powered with 20A controllers, and run on either 36V or 48V. On flat ground, both can start a 330 lb load on throttle. That would be a 40lb bike, 200 lb rider, a trailer with a kid at 80 lbs. Add 10 lbs for slop. My best guess is that a 500W geared motor would work on a reasonable hill. but where I live, the only hills are river valleys, so 100 feet climb may be the kind of elevation gains I see.

 

[indianajo]

With any conversion be sure to match the spoke holes of the wheel & motor. 99.9% of bikes have 36 spokes, but the joey has 32.

 

[hankj]

The 160WH limit is tough. It's a small capacity battery. It would be like a 36V4AH or a 48V3AH. both 144 WH on paper, and having a range of 10-12 miles, maybe more if you pedal harder.

Harry, this has seemed like the case to me as well. However, for me the Specialized Vado SL would get 60 miles out of it's 320WH battery in a mix of the low and mid setting on flatter terrain. And I've heard that the auxiliary batteries for the VADO SL, which are 160 WH (clever dogs over at Specialized making their aux batteries right at the airline travel limit) give indistinguishable performance from the main battery when the main battery is removed and only Auxiliary battery is used.

I'm not sure how Specialized does that - it definitely is a little motor in the SL that will only double your pedal effort -- but nevertheless works pretty darn well and goes a really long way on a small amount of energy with a little battery.

I'm assuming that in the DIY aftermarket there's just no demand for what I'm looking for. I think people with my needs just buy e-bikes off the rack. But my wife really hates the jangly Vado SL frame and really loves her Fargo.

Only one company made one, and that was Grin Technologies (ebikes.ca) and their 36V LiGo battery, no longer in production but they are working on a second geneartion. You can check thwie website to see if it's out yet. Their LiGo could be stacked in parallel to increase capacity or you could carry spares. If the LigO or its successor is not available, you will have to look at commercial tool batteries.

Thanks for the information about Grin - it's definitely interesting concept the stackable battery. Makes it possible to fly with a whole bunch of them and then just connect them together when you get there.

 

[harryS]

Harry, this has seemed like the case to me as well. However, for me the Specialized Vado SL would get 60 miles out of it's 320WH battery in a mix of the low and mid setting on flatter terrain. And I've heard that the auxiliary batteries for the VADO SL, which are 160 WH (clever dogs over at Specialized making their aux batteries right at the airline travel limit) give indistinguishable performance from the main battery when the main battery is removed and only Auxiliary battery is used.

I've using a generic number, on the high side for power consumption, typical of cadence sensor hubmotors. Torque sensor mid drives require the rider to work harder and use less power.

My TSDZ2 mid drive comversions will run 5-7 Wh/mile, whike my hubmotor bike on the same route will use 8-10 wh/mille. If I want to be lazy, I can raise the assist level, burn more power, and not work as hard. But I see no reason why iI could not come close to a Vado's power usage at touring speeds. All those bgs and stuff you guys carry.

Trouble with a mid drive is they drop the front derailleurs for their singlle chain wheel. Takes away your ability to find a cadence appropriate for different riding conditions. Easy to change tires though. If I knew the TSDZ2 to be durbale enough for touring, I'd recommend it over a front hubmotor, No risk of fork damage. Keep your good rims. More natural pedal feel. Same price. Neither are hard to install for someone who works on bikes.


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