Which eMTB to consider? (bought a Levo Comp)

[Browneye]

A carbon fiber frame is generally a fairly costly upgrade, and they can be fragile compared to alloy. But they are lighter, and hardcore riders do appreciate that. For us mere mortals it's rather overkill.
There is a big difference between suspension components - fork and shock - from 'entry level' to 'pro grade'. Generally the more you spend on a bike, the higher grade and performance you'll find in the suspension spec.

YT Industries is a well founded mountain bike company here in southern California, offering their ebike line called the DECOY. There are four levels of spec, and even the lowest one is very good - msrp at about $4500. Shimano steps assist, so should be able to obtain service or warranty around the country, Shimano is well represented. YT sells factory direct - they ship the bike to you, they don't have dealers. I visited their headquarters in San Clemente and test-rode one, a very nice experience, and the bikes are outstanding. Just a good example of a well founded offering, high quality bikes, and very good price point. Professional reviewers hail them as likely the best value in the industry, but not everyone appreciates or endorses the direct-to-consumer sales model, many prefer to rely on a local dealer or bike shop for support. It's an individual choice.

URL: https://us.yt-industries.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhI22oqXZ6QIVHx6tBh1eMAC0EAAYASAAEgJZn_D_BwE

 

[bob armani]

Which Haibike were you riding before?

Haibike's product line naming/structure is.... unclear as to how things progress.

I never owned, just test rode a bunch of lower end models over a 3 day period at a local E-bike Expo. Was a great way to feel out the bikes and get a good idea of performance and functionality. Some had Bosch motors, others had Yamaha which were great performers. The one thing that stood out with Yamaha was the "zero cadence" feature. The motor power engages immediately upon placing force on the pedal. The 70-80nm of torque makes the bike feel like you are pushing throttle more than the others tested. The Brose motors were closely the same as the Bosch in that regard IMO. It is all about personal choice.

Yes the naming conventions of the Haibike line has always been a bit confusing. As the numbers go up on current models, so does the quality in components. Before that, they did not use the numbering system which made it even more difficult for the consumer to decipher model differences. Hope this helps!

 

[bob armani]

A carbon fiber frame is generally a fairly costly upgrade, and they can be fragile compared to alloy. But they are lighter, and hardcore riders do appreciate that. For us mere mortals it's rather overkill.
There is a big difference between suspension components - fork and shock - from 'entry level' to 'pro grade'. Generally the more you spend on a bike, the higher grade and performance you'll find in the suspension spec.

YT Industries is a well founded mountain bike company here in southern California, offering their ebike line called the DECOY. There are four levels of spec, and even the lowest one is very good - msrp at about $4500. Shimano steps assist, so should be able to obtain service or warranty around the country, Shimano is well represented. YT sells factory direct - they ship the bike to you, they don't have dealers. I visited their headquarters in San Clemente and test-rode one, a very nice experience, and the bikes are outstanding. Just a good example of a well founded offering, high quality bikes, and very good price point. Professional reviewers hail them as likely the best value in the industry, but not everyone appreciates or endorses the direct-to-consumer sales model, many prefer to rely on a local dealer or bike shop for support. It's an individual choice.

URL: https://us.yt-industries.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhI22oqXZ6QIVHx6tBh1eMAC0EAAYASAAEgJZn_D_BwE

Really like this brand and many of the direct-to-consumer company bikes out there. Others that come to mind are Canyon (Spectral:ON), Commencal, Fezzari Bikes, etc. Based on positive reviews, I would be willing to take the risks associated with a D-to-C brands. Of course, I would make sure I could get service from a LBS before purchase on basic mechanics, etc.

 

[Browneye]

Really like this brand and many of the direct-to-consumer company bikes out there. Others that come to mind are Canyon (Spectral:ON), Commencal, Fezzari Bikes, etc. Based on positive reviews, I would be willing to take the risks associated with a D-to-C brands. Of course, I would make sure I could get service from a LBS before purchase on basic mechanics, etc.

I was getting ready to order a Commencal before I found my leftover TranceE on sale. IIRC this one was selling for about $3200.
Seems like Shimano may be one of the easiest to get out of network warranty work done - I think they have regional service centers where you could send a drive motor for repair. I don't know about getting an independent dealer to work on anything they didn't sell to you originally.

 

[bob armani]

I was getting ready to order a Commencal before I found my leftover TranceE on sale. IIRC this one was selling for about $3200.
Seems like Shimano may be one of the easiest to get out of network warranty work done - I think they have regional service centers where you could send a drive motor for repair. I don't know about getting an independent dealer to work on anything they didn't sell to you originally.

Love this bike. Great pick.
BTW- I reached out to Erik's Bike Shop which has many locations and they indicated they will work on any E-bike whether purchased through them or a 3rd party. I told them I purchased my bike from a shop that is just too far, and they said this is a common request. Good to know.

 

[wkearney99]

I'm vacillating between a Turbo Levo Comp and a Haibike AllMtn.

The challenge being finding a large frame 2020 Turbo Levo Comp, they're in short supply. Bike shops seem too busy to answer e-mails and phone calls are taking a ton of time trying to call them individually.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A no-no to Giant?

 

[TMH]

I'm vacillating between a Turbo Levo Comp and a Haibike AllMtn.

The challenge being finding a large frame 2020 Turbo Levo Comp, they're in short supply. Bike shops seem too busy to answer e-mails and phone calls are taking a ton of time trying to call them individually.

My first retirement job was selling motorcycles at a BMW dealer.

I could not believe how many people profusely thanked me for actually answering their emails! I know that things are busy right now and shops are short on staff (we always were too since we were a private dealer, and not a corporate owned one, and it was during the last recession), but come on - answer the d@mn emails and help a potential customer become an actual customer! (/rant off)

 

[wkearney99]

A no-no to Giant?

Nobody local seems to have any on-hand. And for me it's test drives that make the difference. I can tell pretty quickly if I'm going to like a bike's geometry. Reading specs doesn't do it for me.

I could not believe how many people profusely thanked me for actually answering their emails! I know that things are busy right now and shops are short on staff (we always were too since we were a private dealer, and not a corporate owned one, and it was during the last recession), but come on - answer the d@mn emails and help a potential customer become an actual customer!

+1 to that. I word my inquiries pretty well. At this point it's "I"m looking to buy today, do you have x,y or z for purchase (in-stock or to order)?" With my name and cell#. My inbox has crickets.

 

[wkearney99]

...and here is my Trance:
View attachment 53613

That's a tall stem you've added there. How much has that brought the rake back? (though I'm not sure I'm using the right term there).

I'm assuming you've added that to provide a slightly more upright riding position? Makes me wonder about L vs XL frame sizes if a tall stem like that brings the bars back a lot.

I've had a lifetime of back and wrist woes, so I fully expect to be tweaking my setup in a similar fashion.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That's a tall stem you've added there. How much has that brought the rake back? (though I'm not sure I'm using the right term there).

I'm assuming you've added that to provide a slightly more upright riding position? Makes me wonder about L vs XL frame sizes if a tall stem like that brings the bars back a lot.

I've had a lifetime of back and wrist woes, so I fully expect to be tweaking my setup in a similar fashion.

That's a straight 80 mm stem riser. In an e-MTB you are expected to climb, so the geometry is designed the way you need to strongly lean forward before you are forced to stand on the pedals for a very steep climb. That makes the handlebars positioned below the saddle level. I don't need to make real climbs where I live and need a slightly more relaxed position. The stem riser makes the bars be at the same level as the saddle, and it is just fine for me. (The stem is backed by an inch).

Note: I climbed an 18% grade without moving my behind from the saddle

 

[FlatSix911]

Nobody local seems to have any on-hand. And for me it's test drives that make the difference. I can tell pretty quickly if I'm going to like a bike's geometry. Reading specs doesn't do it for me.
+1 to that. I word my inquiries pretty well. At this point it's "I"m looking to buy today, do you have x,y or z for purchase (in-stock or to order)?" With my name and cell#. My inbox has crickets.

Sounds like you may have to change your selection criteria... choose the EBike that is in stock.

Every day of analysis paralysis is another day not spent on your new bike... enjoy the ride!

 

[wkearney99]

Sounds like you will have to change your selection criteria... choose the EBike that is in stock.

I can wait. I'd prefer not to, of course. But I've had past hassles with "buy what's available" bikes... not making that mistake again. It'd be one thing if this was just some random >$300 throw-away thing used for a beach trip or something. But at $5k... I'm inclined to want to get what I actually want, not what's left over.

 

[FlatSix911]

You may be waiting for months based on the current environment. Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase.

 

[TMH]

I can definitely understand where @FlatSix911 is coming from. For one thing, you definitely don't need to spend $5k to get a truly excellent bike for your needs as specified in the original post. The e-bike market has become wacky recently, but it used to be that a $2-$3k bike would have met your needs handsomely. But I really don't know what is currently available out there.

Also, since this is your first e-bike you don't yet really know what is most important to you. Of course you have experience with acoustic bikes and you understand how you prefer them to fit you and how you expect them to function. But e-bikes are a whole different can of worms, and I have found that many 'critical' things on an acoustic bike are much less important on an e-bike (especially with commuting mixed with casual trail riding). On an e-bike you no longer require as much 'perfection' in certain areas because you've got that motor system which carries you beyond typical acoustic bike requirements of getting the 'utmost efficiency from the rider.'

You may be attempting to attain perfection through dogged research, and the now almost unobtanium test rides. But you likely won't find the perfect bike in this manner. Research and test rides might be able to eliminate certain 'dogs' from your buying choices, but in the end they won't assure you buy the absolute correct bike. Only living with an e-bike and riding the heck out of it will allow you to understand what a specific bike does well, whether you can modify the bike to get the performance/comfort you need, or what you will instead be looking for in your next e-bike.

So for your first e-bike I don't recommend my standard "buy once, cry once" get the absolutely best you can, which I so often do when spending OPM. I would still steer you away from basic econo-boxes, but instead to take a middle-of-the-road approach and buy a quality (but not top of the line) product based on your research. Use it to understand e-bikes to the point you have previously understood acoustic bikes, fast cars, etc. And don't think of this purchase as being your first, last and only e-bike purchase.

And don't discount leftovers - I've purchased some absolutely awesome 'leftover' e-bikes for incredible prices. To name a few: Raleigh Tamland iE (after it had been discontinued by Raleigh), Grace MX II Trail (after Grace had exited the U.S. market), Haibike Trekking 7.0 (last year's model. Haibike has now changed the 7.0 to the Bosch PowerTube style battery from the PowerPack style battery, and is no longer bringing the 7.0 to the U.S.). The right 'leftover' can end up fitting your overall needs equal or better than many 'current models'.

But then again, I may have fully misunderstood who you are and what is most important to you in your purchase decisions. If that is the case, ignore the above and carry on. I do hope that you find the right e-bike for you soon! Too bad you are on the 'wrong' coast - I have lots of bikes (in the correct size for you) which you could test ride.

 

[wkearney99]

I wouldn't have figured 'acoustic' as a term for regular bikes. Analog, maybe. But the guitar power/no-power analogy seems an odd fit. Whatever works, right?

Haibike's NAINA differentiation is a concern. (Not Available in North America). Like not having their eConnect available in the US. Really puts me off when a brand does this (not just bikes). Oh, I get the justifications, just that those ring hollow when you're in a market they've chosen to under-serve.

I hear you on the 'buy once cry once' perspective. I'm not looking for 'perfection' as much as avoiding undershooting the mark. Overkill on components... well, I'm certainly not going to be beating on this bike like a lot of hardcore riders. But hauling my bulk around is likely putting equal, if not more, stress on the drivetrain/brakes. So buying a model that's already equipped with a higher-line of those components staves off breaking them that much sooner.

Likewise on the left-overs, but then I'm up against the same lack of large frame options.

I'm going to be burning up the phone lines today in search of a bike.

 

[TMH]

Remember that my perspectives are based on one with the same height and bulk of you (6'4", 245#). I continue to be amazed how these bikes, in combination with my own legs, continually and effectively haul my carcass around without complaint.

Having hopped back onto the old acoustic mountain bike recently, it reminded me of why I had given up bicycle riding those years ago (although BMW, KTM and Ducati instead served my 2-wheel fix). The acoustic bike was miserable to me. But every day my wife and I are able to get out on our e-bikes (we're retired), and every day it is something that we look forward to. But you probably can't tell that I'm hooked on them.

 

[wkearney99]

Remember that my perspectives are based on one with the same height and bulk of you (6'4", 245#). I continue to be amazed how these bikes, in combination with my own legs, continually and effectively haul my carcass around without complaint.

Having hopped back onto the old acoustic mountain bike recently, it reminded me of why I had given up bicycle riding those years ago (although BMW, KTM and Ducati instead served my 2-wheel fix). The acoustic bike was miserable to me. But every day my wife and I are able to get out on our e-bikes (we're retired), and every day it is something that we look forward to. But you probably can't tell that I'm hooked on them.

Totally hear you, thanks!

 

[Browneye]

And why I did not select a Haibike or BH - I had concerns about after-sale support. Bulls is another possibility, they make a really nice bike. There are several others worth looking at, depending on what your local dealer offerings are. Scott comes to mind, and the new Santa Cruz ebike is out. Lots of $$, both.

Turbo Levo Comp is a benchmark to which all others are compared.
IMO the Giant Trance E+1 Pro is on par, and is shown as 'in stock' in all sizes. A Giant dealer can order one for you directly from the distribution center. And you'll save about four hundred before any discounts over a Levo. The specialized model appears to be out of stock all over. I think the main advantage of the levo comp is the larger battery pack. If you don't need that then the regular Turbo Levo is a good option, for about a grand less. Giant also has a lower-spec model, the E+4, also about a grand less.


The Trek RAIL is brand new out, you should be able to find one of those available. I have not seen or ridden one - the Trek dealers here were only bringing in the CF versions. They have the new Bosch CX motor update.


2020 Trance E+1Pro:

Trek Rail 5 - I wanted to check one out, but none to be found locally. I passed on the $10K version. LOL
IIRC both turbo levo and Rail are 29'rs - 29" wheels.

 

[wkearney99]

That's a wild color!