Which Companies Make Multi Mode/ Switchable Class Mode Ebikes?

[jabberwocky]

If there is no enforcement, it doesn't matter what the laws are. People will ignore them. To attempt to get the class system to work, you would have to ban all DIY bikes. Maybe even register compliant bikes at the DMV and issue license plates so that you can identify abusers. It is a slippery slope that I don't think many people in the ebike community would support.

People ignore laws, of course. Thats not really an argument for not having laws, or an argument in favor of retailers selling things that aren't legal to actually use.

I think the "just enforce a speed limit!" crowd likes that argument because it punts the issue into a place where they know they can just do what they want. I live in the DC metro area (pretty far out, but used to live closer in and rode a ton on the VA side of the river and in DC proper) and pretty much all bike infrastructure is managed by agencies who simply don't have the resources to enforce that (park departments or local governments). Many of the MUPs don't even have speed limits (the only one local to me, the W&OD rail trail, has no speed limit). Going to them and arguing that how fast your ebike can go is irrelevant because they can just implement and enforce a speed limit is a straight up losing argument to make. They will take that as "my bike goes really fast" and "I expect you to spend a bunch of money on enforcement to prevent conflict issues so me and my compatriots can ride really fast on your trail". No park manager is going to accept that argument.

 

[Art Deco]

People ignore laws, of course. Thats not really an argument for not having laws, or an argument in favor of retailers selling things that aren't legal to actually use.

I think the "just enforce a speed limit!" crowd likes that argument because it punts the issue into a place where they know they can just do what they want. I live in the DC metro area (pretty far out, but used to live closer in and rode a ton on the VA side of the river and in DC proper) and pretty much all bike infrastructure is managed by agencies who simply don't have the resources to enforce that (park departments or local governments). Many of the MUPs don't even have speed limits (the only one local to me, the W&OD rail trail, has no speed limit). Going to them and arguing that how fast your ebike can go is irrelevant because they can just implement and enforce a speed limit is a straight up losing argument to make. They will take that as "my bike goes really fast" and "I expect you to spend a bunch of money on enforcement to prevent conflict issues so me and my compatriots can ride really fast on your trail". No park manager is going to accept that argument.

Nor should they. People walk their dogs, kids, and grandchildren on MUPs. High speeds don't really belong there, but I am still reluctant to ban class 3 bikes if they are riding like the other bikes.

 

[antboy]

They will only allow us to ignore the law for so long. Unplugging a throttle on a class 2 bike doesn't make it a class 1, it's still a class 2.

How so? By the PFB definition, the only difference between "Class 2" and "Class 1" is a throttle that allows unassisted speeds up to 20mph.

Is it the existence of the non-functional piece of plastic on the handlebar? Should said plastic be tossed in a backpack, or better yet left at home? Would that make it "Class 1"?

If a rider actually does bother to disconnect their throttle to be compliant on certain trails, does that not suggest they are MORE willing to abide by the law of the land than the opposite?

Serious questions.

 

[jabberwocky]

How so? By the PFB definition, the only difference between "Class 2" and "Class 1" is a throttle that allows unassisted speeds up to 20mph.

Is it the existence of the non-functional piece of plastic on the handlebar? Should said plastic be tossed in a backpack, or better yet left at home? Would that make it "Class 1"?

If a rider actually does bother to disconnect their throttle to be compliant on certain trails, does that not suggest they are MORE willing to abide by the law of the land than the opposite?

Serious questions.

Its definitely murky. VAs code says:

"Electric power-assisted bicycle" means a vehicle that travels on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground and is equipped with (i) pedals that allow propulsion by human power, (ii) a seat for the use of the rider, and (iii) an electric motor with an input of no more than 750 watts. Electric power-assisted bicycles shall be classified as follows:
1. "Class one" means an electric power-assisted bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches a speed of 20 miles per hour;
2. "Class two" means an electric power-assisted bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour; and
3. "Class three" means an electric power-assisted bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.

So class 2 says "may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle". I could make the argument that just because the throttle is unplugged, the bike still has the capability (even if temporarily defeated) to move under motor power alone, and therefore remains a class 2.

A bit of a stretch, and its hard seeing anyone enforcing it like that, but its an argument that I could see being made.

 

[J.R.]

Having been involved volunteering and then involved in overturning the ebike ban I know how difficult these entities have it. These days museums and parks are last in line for funds. Law enforcement budgets have been cut. Under funded pension plans account for a huge amount of budgets. Given the choice of more money for enforcement or just ban them, most people will say ban. I've heard it. Most people wouldn't have a problem banning all bikes if speed is a danger and money was needed to solve the problem.

I'm not anti speed, I also ride a MC. I'm not anti throttle, one of my ebikes has one. I will abide by the regs and ride off road trails and paths with my class 1. Most people on this forum aren't the problem, no matter what ebike they own. It's the 2% of users that could take all this away. I really don't want to see that.... again.

 

[Art Deco]

How so? By the PFB definition, the only difference between "Class 2" and "Class 1" is a throttle that allows unassisted speeds up to 20mph.

Is it the existence of the non-functional piece of plastic on the handlebar? Should said plastic be tossed in a backpack, or better yet left at home? Would that make it "Class 1"?

If a rider actually does bother to disconnect their throttle to be compliant on certain trails, does that not suggest they are MORE willing to abide by the law of the land than the opposite?

Serious questions.

How so? By the PFB definition, the only diffe between "Class 2" and "Class 1" is a throttle that allows unassisted speeds up to 20mph.

Is it the existence of the non-functional piece of plastic on the handlebar? Should said plastic be tossed in a backpack, or better yet left at home? Would that make it "Class 1"?

If a rider actually does bother to disconnect their throttle to be compliant on certain trails, does that not suggest they are MORE willing to abide by the law of the land than the opposite?

Serious questions.

Probably only those with real handicaps and those with vestigial ? pedals on a 3000w bike would object to removing a throttle . Telling which is which isn't realistic for trails.Try to make it easy for everyone if you can.

 

[jabberwocky]

I'm not anti speed, I also ride a MC. I'm not anti throttle, one of my ebikes has one. I will abide by the regs and ride off road trails and paths with my class 1. Most people on this forum aren't the problem, no matter what ebike they own. It's the 2% of users that could take all this away. I really don't want to see that.... again.

Yeah... locally we are dealing with two idiots on SurRons riding the mtb trails. They've been confronted and insisted they are legal and nobody can stop them (only one of them even has the pedal kit and it isn't actually connected to the rear wheel, it just freespins so he can pretend hes pedaling). Fortunately the local EMTB crowd has been pretty vocal about getting them off the trails. At this point their cars license plates have been circulated and law enforcement is on it, but its definitely a headache that people would rather not deal with and I'm sure will be a topic of discussion when ebike access is next discussed (the trails are only open to class 1s on a trial basis, with a meeting scheduled later this year to see about continuing it).

 

[J.R.]

How so? By the PFB definition, the only difference between "Class 2" and "Class 1" is a throttle that allows unassisted speeds up to 20mph.

Is it the existence of the non-functional piece of plastic on the handlebar? Should said plastic be tossed in a backpack, or better yet left at home? Would that make it "Class 1"?

If a rider actually does bother to disconnect their throttle to be compliant on certain trails, does that not suggest they are MORE willing to abide by the law of the land than the opposite?

Serious questions.

Disconnecting it does suggest that. It's that sort of willingness by members here that suggests we aren't the problem. I think it's an honest attempt to honor the spirit of the regs. As I said I'm not against class 2, I have one. We tried to get class 2 included, but given the public's testimony and some regulators we could only get class 1 accepted. I would back any effort to get them accepted. I can't spearhead it, the 2 years we spent getting through the last effort was enough for some of us. There needs to be more involvement by the faithful.

 

[jabberwocky]

Disconnecting it does suggest that. It's that sort of willingness by members here that suggests we aren't the problem. I think it's an honest attempt to honor the spirit of the regs. As I said I'm not against class 2, I have one. We tried to get class 2 included, but given the public's testimony and some regulators we could only get class 1 accepted. I would back any effort to get them accepted. I can't spearhead it, the 2 years we spent getting through the last effort was enough for some of us. There needs to be more involvement by the faithful.

Sometimes you just take what you can get and build on it later. Once ebikes have been in use without issue for a while its a stronger argument to allow more.

 

[Cramer Long]

Cramer, I think you are a far nicer person if you don't attempt to talk about social matters.

A road bike might weigh 19 lbs. Your full Vado is 53 lbs. Think of momentum of someone riding a 53 lb e-bike at 28 mph. It is you who could be killed on a bike path! I say so because I have actually had a crash with a hot-head cyclist who ran into me on a bike path. I was lucky as always but one's luck can be exhausted some '

True but respectfully . It's not the bike it's the Biker . The real problem is Societies in the West were founded by the principles of the Golden Rule and self governed people . Which history shows slowly dwindled at the onset of Darwinism . And it's just gotten worse . The vast majority of people regardless of their belief system have fallen away from that Golden Rule . So now we have a meaningless society . Loaded with people who believe they descended from some family of hybrid apes . Acting accordingly . Even many who don't believe that still act like animals . So we have more and more and more laws . I would bet money if European laws changed and you could get a class 3 Vado . You'd be doing video on mounting it doing cartwheels LOL JK
If you think about it . If we all still followed the do unto others Golden Rule . We wouldn't have all these really insignificant laws . After all there's been units to take Class 1 restrictions off your E-bike for a long time now . What good is a law restricting class 3 riding even worth ?
Plus the police shouldn't be reduced to Bike path detail. Nor should they need to be . Biking people for teh most part are like golfers . There's a normal etiquette that the average person naturally adheres to . Imagine if we did what we used to do even 40 years ago. When someone was ruining things for everyone else and wouldn't stop. You kicked their butt out and off . It was the common normal decent thing to do. Today it would seem they want to make laws to prevent the decent people from doing what they used to do . Self Governess

 

[J.R.]

Sometimes you just take what you can get and build on it later. Once ebikes have been in use without issue for a while its a stronger argument to allow more.

My 7+ years involved in ebiking and this forum show me there's a lot of people who need or think they need a throttle. There are people that would have never gotten back on a bike without that option. My class 2 is old, my first ebike when most bikes available had throttles. I have let people test ride my class 1, with torque sensor and most people seem to think they don't need a throttle after riding it. Still there are people that do and I hate seeing them excluded.

 

[Gordon71]

How so? By the PFB definition, the only difference between "Class 2" and "Class 1" is a throttle that allows unassisted speeds up to 20mph.

Is it the existence of the non-functional piece of plastic on the handlebar? Should said plastic be tossed in a backpack, or better yet left at home? Would that make it "Class 1"?

If a rider actually does bother to disconnect their throttle to be compliant on certain trails, does that not suggest they are MORE willing to abide by the law of the land than the opposite?

Serious questions.

Exactly. When I first started riding covid was raging so the campgrounds were closed and there was no one to ask. Still I always stopped and unplugged my throttle. I did that for a year until late this spring the campgrounds opened and I was able to stop in and ask a ranger. She told me what I was doing made me compliant and to enjoy my ride.

 

[Gordon71]

My 7+ years involved in ebiking and this forum show me there's a lot of people who need or think they need a throttle. There are people that would have never gotten back on a bike without that option. My class 2 is old, my first ebike when most bikes available had throttles. I have let people test ride my class 1, with torque sensor and most people seem to think they don't need a throttle after riding it. Still there are people that do and I hate seeing them excluded.

I almost never use mine either but I'm glad to have it when I have to come to stop and am in a high gear. A one second throttle use gets me rolling enough to easily pedal.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

if European laws changed

It's not going to happen.

and you could get a class 3 Vado

I already own EU L1e-B S-Pedelec Vado that is superior to the U.S. Class 3 Vados. Starting from Specialized 1.2s (speed) motor through premium TRP Zurich brakes through premium 11-speed Deore XT drivetrain with 48T chainring through Supernova M99 Pro headlight (around US$500 worth) to horn. Look up Vado 6.0.
How odd.

 

[tomjasz]

How odd.

Please don’t feed the troll!

 

[timacn]

I just discovered an ebike manufactured in Canada by the Dost company. I saw one review on youtube and it was very positively reviewed. They also allow their ebikes to be programmed to adhere to Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3 guidelines.

 

[J.R.]

They also allow their ebikes to be programmed to adhere to Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3 guidelines.

Well, that's the point, if they can be programmed, they don't adhere to the 3 class law. Sellers will tell you anything to sell.

 

[Cramer Long]

It's not going to happen.

I already own EU L1e-B S-Pedelec Vado that is superior to the U.S. Class 3 Vados. Starting from Specialized 1.2s (speed) motor through premium TRP Zurich brakes through premium 11-speed Deore XT drivetrain with 48T chainring through Supernova M99 Pro headlight (around US$500 wo

Not going to happen ? Sure it will practice the cartwheel in the grass . You can do it

Please don’t feed the troll!

grow up

 

[6zfshdb]

Well, that's the point, if they can be programmed, they don't adhere to the 3 class law. Sellers will tell you anything to sell.

User programmable bikes defeat the purpose of the 3 class system. There is no way to enforce regulations if a rider can simply reprogram a bike from a legal class 1 to an illegal class 2 or 3 and ride it wherever he likes.

Most of us adhere to these regulations but there are always a few who abuse them.

 

[Gordon71]

"Most of us adhere to these regulations but there are always a few who abuse them." When it comes to regulations that's true of pretty much everything. The answer is not to deny the majority that adhere but to catch and fine those that do not.