Which Companies Make Multi Mode/ Switchable Class Mode Ebikes?

[Cramer Long]

Basically any of the chinese import brands/chinese motor companies are pretty easy to modify to change the cutoff speed (or eliminate it). Its may not be as easy as flipping a switch, but its not usually more difficult than changing settings in a menu or maybe uploading a different firmware or unplugging a wire or something.

Strictly speaking, taking something like the Super 73 and setting the assist to cutoff at 20mph doesn't make it a class 1 bike, because it still has a motor capable of waaaaaaay more than 750 watts. But its almost completely unenforced.

There are definitely a fair number of bikes on the market in the US that are trying to pretend they are an ebike for safety/regulation purposes (meaning totally unregulated) but also wink-winking about how they can go 30mph+ on throttle. On private land only, of course. Obviously not legal in any state (too much power to be an ebike, but conforms to none of the safety regulations for a scooter), but at the moment its a bit of the wild west and nobody puts serious effort into regulating them.

I get why people would need a Throttle . I don't get why someone who doesn't wants one . I also agree that putting speed limits is next to impossible to enforce . What are they going to do ? Take the money they save from defunding the police who stop murders and make them patrol guards on Bike paths ? Most people obey the rules on bike paths . And for those who don't . What's that saying ? There's never a Cop around when you need one.

 

[jabberwocky]

I get why people would need a Throttle . I don't get why someone who doesn't wants one . I also agree that putting speed limits is next to impossible to enforce . What are they going to do ? Take the money they save from defunding the police who stop murders and make them patrol guards on Bike paths ? Most people obey the rules on bike paths . And for those who don't . What's that saying ? There's never a Cop around when you need one.

It would be pretty easy to enforce by just targeting importers and sellers. No need to go after users. It would take very little effort (for the government) to basically push unregulated bikes underground. You sell anything that can be easily modified to go over x speed, or with a motor over 750 watts but not compliant with moped regs? Big fines for you. Whats easily available would be compliant in very short order. Nobody with a US presence and web site could afford that sort of fight.

I don't see any appetite for those sort of solutions at the moment. That could potentially change if conflicts on public infrastructure becomes an issue and theres enough public pressure to push the feds to do something about it.

 

[ExPatBrit]

The bikes exceeding the local 15 mph limit on the paved trails where I live are almost all lightweight regular racing bikes.

Regular bikes also lack a speedometer ,although some riders add one or use their phone.

Most $1200+ e-bikes do have speedometers.

 

[J.R.]

Spending a couple years lobbying for ebike access and to overturn ebike bans, these non conforming ebikes are our biggest problem. They, their sellers and all the YouTube videos are the evidence the anti ebike regulators use as examples of why ebikes shouldn't be allowed on paths and trails. It was asked, if you can't abide by the class restrictions spelled out clearly in the law, why should we allow ebikes at all?

Class 1 and 3 cannot have a throttle. Class 2 has a throttle, therefore it can never be a class 1 or 3. In most instances class 3 are considered too fast for paths and trails. The law doesn't have hybrid class 2/3, etc...

Ignoring the law, just because we don't like it (there's a lot I don't like) is the worst thing we can do for the future of ebikes and access. In PA we were able to overturn bans and we have better access than the vast majority of states. On any state owned path or trail, there are restrictions.

State:
Electric Bike (E-bike) Use
Class 1 E-bikes are permitted on approved mountain bike trails and roads, provided they meet all the following standards:

1. Electric motor less than 750 watts
2. Fully functional pedals
3. Weight not exceeding 75 lbs.
4. Maximum speed less than 20 mph
5. Does not have capacity to be completely self-propelled (must be pedaled to engage electric motor)

Class 2 and 3 E-bikes are not permitted on approved mountain bike trails and roads in state forests.

There are ongoing discussions about class 2 access.

My county is the same except the weight is 100 pounds. National Parks in PA are open as well. You can do the bike tour of Gettysburg.

If you don't like the laws in your locale, work to change them. I wasn't hopeful to start, we had no support, in the end the support was 4 to 1 in the overturning of the ban.

If I was going to invest money in an ebike today, I would get a legal one for where I intend to ride most often. Enforcement is getting more strict and law enforcement is putting together a database of ebikes and brands that are illegal. I expect this to become a national database.

 

[jabberwocky]

Problem is that tactic didn't work to stop Prostitution in the 1980's . Going after Johns did . The Feds if you get them involved aren't going to go after the Sellers and Importers . They'll go after the little guy . Besides as crooked as our system is . Why would you want to give the Feds more chances to be dishonest and screw over John Q Public even more . I am on the bike trails a lot . Nobody is complaining about E-bikers Speeds . Road Bikers are actually the Pompous rude cyclists . Not Maw and Pa Kettle out for a Saturday Afternoon Scenery ride .

No idea what you mean or what prostitution has to do with anything. Ebikes are a product. The non-compliant ones are almost entirely from China (or built in the US out of chinese parts/electronics). There just aren't that many ways those things flow from China to US customers. If the government really wanted to make sure most of what was sold was class 1/2/3 compliant and not easily modified, they no doubt could. You'd still be able to import from alibaba/ebay yourself and get something moped-y, but it would get considerably more difficult. I'm just saying that "policing every path in the world" is far from the most efficient way to do something about it, if so inclined.

Like I said, I see no appetite for that at the moment. Ebikes are just not on the radar in most places as an issue, and places where they are its being handled locally (like in major cities with delivery riders riding fast throttle bikes getting pushback).

 

[jabberwocky]

Claims the person that has never been to a public debate over ebike access. Just so misinformed.

Yeah, seriously. Its a feature of literally every access meeting. The whole "road bikers go fast!" argument gets tiring, because A: going ebike speeds on a road bike is actually pretty hard and takes a lot of work, and B: agencies have been dealing with complaints about road bikers going too fast for decades, so coming into a meeting and saying "who cares how fast we go, road bikers can go fast too!" is not the winning argument people think it is.

 

[J.R.]

Yeah, seriously. Its a feature of literally every access meeting. The whole "road bikers go fast!" argument gets tiring, because A: going ebike speeds on a road bike is actually pretty hard and takes a lot of work, and B: agencies have been dealing with complaints about road bikers going too fast for decades, so coming into a meeting and saying "who cares how fast we go, road bikers can go fast too!" is not the winning argument people think it is.

Spot on. Few humans are as strong as an ebike, fewer still ride bikes and very few of that minority of road bikers are even considering riding a bike path or trail. You can't train and hit the numbers you want to on a path.

 

[Cramer Long]

Yeah, seriously. Its a feature of literally every access meeting. The whole "road bikers go fast!" argument gets tiring, because A: going ebike speeds on a road bike is actually pretty hard and takes a lot of work, and B: agencies have been dealing with complaints about road bikers going too fast for decades, so coming into a meeting and saying "who cares how fast we go, road bikers can go fast too!" is not the winning argument people think it is.

What meetings ? Obviously this must be in states that don't have better things to complain about . I never run into at all in the North . Maybe because we don't have the issue . I personally don't care how fast you go . As long as you announce you're coming up behind me or when you are coming my way . Stay in your lane around corners . Naturally someone going 20 mph is going to seem fast to someone going 8 mph . The whole problem in areas where these so called public complaint groups exist . Are people Not bikes . It's not the Bikes fault . Think about you're out breathing fresh air enjoying things . Most people you run into are nice people . But then here comes nancy ready to ruin everyone's day . These issues can easily be resolved as they were in the past. Be patient , but there's a time to quit turning the other cheek and punch nancy's lights out . She won't be holding complaint sessions again:

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Cramer, I think you are a far nicer person if you don't attempt to talk about social matters.

A road bike might weigh 19 lbs. Your full Vado is 53 lbs. Think of momentum of someone riding a 53 lb e-bike at 28 mph. It is you who could be killed on a bike path! I say so because I have actually had a crash with a hot-head cyclist who ran into me on a bike path. I was lucky as always but one's luck can be exhausted some day.

 

[jabberwocky]

What meetings ? Obviously this must be in states that don't have better things to complain about . I never run into at all in the North . Maybe because we don't have the issue . I personally don't care how fast you go . As long as you announce you're coming up behind me or when you are coming my way . Stay in your lane around corners . Naturally someone going 20 mph is going to seem fast to someone going 8 mph . The whole problem in areas where these so called public complaint groups exist . Are people Not bikes . It's not the Bikes fault . Think about you're out breathing fresh air enjoying things . Most people you run into are nice people . But then here comes nancy ready to ruin everyone's day . These issues can easily be resolved as they were in the past. Be patient , but there's a time to quit turning the other cheek and punch nancy's lights out . She won't be holding complaint sessions again:

Nancy? What the hell are you going on about?

By meetings I mean access meetings. Like, if I want to legally ride my emtb on the local singletrack, that doesn't just magically happen. Advocates need to get together and push for access. Generally, that entails public meetings with people representing the managing agency as well as other stakeholders and people from other user groups. You need to make your case as to why you think ebikes should have access. Generally, ranting about invisible people named nancy does not help your case.

 

[Gordon71]

All you have to do is unplug the throttle on your class 2, and, voila! You've "switched" to class 1 .

Exactly! I do that every time I get to my park trail that only allows class 1 Ebikes. Takes less than 5 seconds and makes my bike legal to ride those trails.

 

[tomjasz]

Grin, ebikes.ca, sells controllers that can be used with a range of batteries. (27-60V and 31-88V)

 

[mschwett]

from a united states point of view, given that the difference between class 1 and class 3 is essentially the software controlling the motor, i actually really like the idea of a switchable bike. my creo could have a switch which enables assist past 20mph, perhaps different profiles for each assist level, and when switched to “1” the bike would be fully legal to operate on mixed use paths. switched to “3” it would assist up to 28, and not be legal on mixed use paths. put a small light somewhere that’s either green or yellow. make a working “mode” light a requirement. enforcement and common sense will take care of the rest.

yes, of course i can pedal it way past 20. even turned off completely. that’s really not the point - that situation has existed since the dawn of road bikes and would be dealt with in other ways (enforcement, civil liability) as needed.

i’ve stated elsewhere that i believe there should also be a power and weight limit on ALL ebikes, beyond which they’re not bikes, they’re mopeds or motorcycles. because physics. as a 190lb 6’2 male who rides in a city with 20% grades all over the place, the current 750w limit seems insanely high, and it seems insanely unsafe for someone to ride down said hills at high speed expecting brakes of varying quality to bring 300+ lb to a stop when a kid pops out into the crosswalk from behind a parked truck. a bike should be lightweight and in the realm of human power, or it’s not a bike.

 

[RunForTheHills]

I know that the three class laws are not easy to change. However, speed limits are a lot easier to enforce than software limited speed assist on a bike. If there are a lot of unsafe and disrespectful riders on a particular stretch of MUP, occasionally sending out an officer with a radar gun wouldn't be a horrible waste of resources and may prevent an accident. That just makes more sense to me. I used to run on a MUP up in the San Francisco East Bay where I have seen them take a police cruiser regularly down the MUP to roust the homeless. The car took up the whole trail and I had to step off to the side of the trail to let them pass.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

from a united states point of view, given that the difference between class 1 and class 3 is essentially the software controlling the motor, i actually really like the idea of a switchable bike. my creo could have a switch which enables assist past 20mph, perhaps different profiles for each assist level, and when switched to “1” the bike would be fully legal to operate on mixed use paths. switched to “3” it would assist up to 28, and not be legal on mixed use paths. put a small light somewhere that’s either green or yellow. make a working “mode” light a requirement. enforcement and common sense will take care of the rest.

It's because you're riding a Specialized SL e-bike. Specialized designed the motor and outsourced manufacturing to Mahle. Specialized made the SL 1.1 motor "switchable" but it does not mean it is not a subject to legal limitations. For instance, Canadian Creo SL will be 32 km/h, and European one will be 25 km/h. No sane Specialized dealer will reset a Creo to 45 km/h either in Europe or Canada.

Now, if we are talking Bosch bikes, you won't get a Class 3 e-bike if it is not the Performance Line Speed motor.

Finally, there is no EU road e-bike with more than 25 km/h assistance. The reason is, any faster Creo would be a moped, and you cannot equip a road bike with all moped bells & whistles. That's why road e-bikes sell poorly in Europe.

 

[J.R.]

I understand people that live in urban and suburban places think enforcing speed is the answer. It might be in those locations. There are far more miles of rail trails and paths in rural America and those are destination trails for many millions of riders, hikers and walkers. For instance I have a local rail trail in my county, it runs for nearly 30 miles. There are 3 full time Rangers for enforcement of 5000 acres. The trail goes through many rural townships, many without police departments. My rural township doesn't have the need for a police department. No traffic signals, no retail establishments, no real crime. The only law enforcement for much of the county is state police and I can go years without seeing one.

The trail is a destination that gets a million visitors a year. There isn't the will or the money to police speed. That's why there was a ban. Now class 1 bikes are allowed. This year there are many motocross/mini bike ebikes using the trail. They are riding fast and blinding people with moped size headlights. If it keeps up the ban will return. It's easy enough for one of the rangers to sit at a trailhead and nab all the ebikers. With a ban, there's nothing to figure out what's legal and what's not. They all are illegal. They will only allow us to ignore the law for so long. Unplugging a throttle on a class 2 bike doesn't make it a class 1, it's still a class 2.

 

[ExPatBrit]

Exactly! I do that every time I get to my park trail that only allows class 1 Ebikes. Takes less than 5 seconds and makes my bike legal to ride those trails.

Is there actually a person checking this, do they have any job openings?

 

[Art Deco]

Spending a couple years lobbying for ebike access and to overturn ebike bans, these non conforming ebikes are our biggest problem. They, their sellers and all the YouTube videos are the evidence the anti ebike regulators use as examples of why ebikes shouldn't be allowed on paths and trails. It was asked, if you can't abide by the class restrictions spelled out clearly in the law, why should we allow ebikes at all?

Class 1 and 3 cannot have a throttle. Class 2 has a throttle, therefore it can never be a class 1 or 3. In most instances class 3 are considered too fast for paths and trails. The law doesn't have hybrid class 2/3, etc...

Ignoring the law, just because we don't like it (there's a lot I don't like) is the worst thing we can do for the future of ebikes and access. In PA we were able to overturn bans and we have better access than the vast majority of states. On any state owned path or trail, there are restrictions.

State:
Electric Bike (E-bike) Use
Class 1 E-bikes are permitted on approved mountain bike trails and roads, provided they meet all the following standards:

1. Electric motor less than 750 watts
2. Fully functional pedals
3. Weight not exceeding 75 lbs.
4. Maximum speed less than 20 mph
5. Does not have capacity to be completely self-propelled (must be pedaled to engage electric motor)

Class 2 and 3 E-bikes are not permitted on approved mountain bike trails and roads in state forests.

There are ongoing discussions about class 2 access.

My county is the same except the weight is 100 pounds. National Parks in PA are open as well. You can do the bike tour of Gettysburg.

If you don't like the laws in your locale, work to change them. I wasn't hopeful to start, we had no support, in the end the support was 4 to 1 in the overturning of the ban.

If I was going to invest money in an ebike today, I would get a legal one for where I intend to ride most often. Enforcement is getting more strict and law enforcement is putting together a database of ebikes and brands that are illegal. I expect this to become a national database.

Well said, and another Like that means

 

[Gordon71]

from a united states point of view, given that the difference between class 1 and class 3 is essentially the software controlling the motor, i actually really like the idea of a switchable bike. my creo could have a switch which enables assist past 20mph, perhaps different profiles for each assist level, and when switched to “1” the bike would be fully legal to operate on mixed use paths. switched to “3” it would assist up to 28, and not be legal on mixed use paths. put a small light somewhere that’s either green or yellow. make a working “mode” light a requirement. enforcement and common sense will take care of the rest.

yes, of course i can pedal it way past 20. even turned off completely. that’s really not the point - that situation has existed since the dawn of road bikes and would be dealt with in other ways (enforcement, civil liability) as needed.

i’ve stated elsewhere that i believe there should also be a power and weight limit on ALL ebikes, beyond which they’re not bikes, they’re mopeds or motorcycles. because physics. as a 190lb 6’2 male who rides in a city with 20% grades all over the place, the current 750w limit seems insanely high, and it seems insanely unsafe for someone to ride down said hills at high speed expecting brakes of varying quality to bring 300+ lb to a stop when a kid pops out into the crosswalk from behind a parked truck. a bike should be lightweight and in the realm of human power, or it’s not a bike.

I understand people that live in urban and suburban places think enforcing speed is the answer. It might be in those locations. There are far more miles of rail trails and paths in rural America and those are destination trails for many millions of riders, hikers and walkers. For instance I have a local rail trail in my county, it runs for nearly 30 miles. There are 3 full time Rangers for enforcement of 5000 acres. The trail goes through many rural townships, many without police departments. My rural township doesn't have the need for a police department. No traffic signals, no retail establishments, no real crime. The only law enforcement for much of the county is state police and I can go years without seeing one.

The trail is a destination that gets a million visitors a year. There isn't the will or the money to police speed. That's why there was a ban. Now class 1 bikes are allowed. This year there are many motocross/mini bike ebikes using the trail. They are riding fast and blinding people with moped size headlights. If it keeps up the ban will return. It's easy enough for one of the rangers to sit at a trailhead and nab all the ebikers. With a ban, there's nothing to figure out what's legal and what's not. They all are illegal. They will only allow us to ignore the law for so long. Unplugging a throttle on a class 2 bike doesn't make it a class 1, it's still a class 2.

Sorry but if these are the criteria for a class 1 Ebike then unplugging a throttle does make it a class 1. When I unplug mine it it MUST be pedaled to engage the motor.

1. Electric motor less than 750 watts
2. Fully functional pedals
3. Weight not exceeding 75 lbs.
4. Maximum speed less than 20 mph
5. Does not have capacity to be completely self-propelled (must be pedaled to engage electric motor)

 

[RunForTheHills]

I understand people that live in urban and suburban places think enforcing speed is the answer. It might be in those locations. There are far more miles of rail trails and paths in rural America and those are destination trails for many millions of riders, hikers and walkers. For instance I have a local rail trail in my county, it runs for nearly 30 miles. There are 3 full time Rangers for enforcement of 5000 acres. The trail goes through many rural townships, many without police departments. My rural township doesn't have the need for a police department. No traffic signals, no retail establishments, no real crime. The only law enforcement for much of the county is state police and I can go years without seeing one.

The trail is a destination that gets a million visitors a year. There isn't the will or the money to police speed. That's why there was a ban. Now class 1 bikes are allowed. This year there are many motocross/mini bike ebikes using the trail. They are riding fast and blinding people with moped size headlights. If it keeps up the ban will return. It's easy enough for one of the rangers to sit at a trailhead and nab all the ebikers. With a ban, there's nothing to figure out what's legal and what's not. They all are illegal. They will only allow us to ignore the law for so long. Unplugging a throttle on a class 2 bike doesn't make it a class 1, it's still a class 2.

If there is no enforcement, it doesn't matter what the laws are. People will ignore them. To attempt to get the class system to work, you would have to ban all DIY bikes. Maybe even register compliant bikes at the DMV and issue license plates so that you can identify abusers. It is a slippery slope that I don't think many people in the ebike community would support.

I don't actually live in an urban area. I was up in the Bay Area for a work contract. I live in a mountain community where we might see a sheriff's vehicle once or twice a year. Here, it is illegal to drive ATVs and golf carts on the road. However, there are a lot part time residents (weekenders) up here that think it is cool to do that. I have never seen anything done to stop it. We just have to drive slowly and look out for them and put up with the noise of ATVs zooming up and down the road.