Where to look for replacement batteries?

[Telkwa]

Good morning!

I'd like to upgrade our Haibike and Liv Amiti batteries from 400Wh to 500Wh.

Even if we never upgrade, sooner or later we'll be replacing the existing batteries. From what I'm reading on the forum, after 500 cycles or so.

What sources have you guys found for e-bike batteries?

Rebuilt batteries make sense to me. Is anyone doing that? I wouldn't consider a rebuilt battery unless the rebuilder had a solid track record. A reputable rebuilder would use brand-new high quality cells. A disreputable rebuilder could load the battery up with used cells stripped out of dead laptop batteries.

 

[indianajo]

I bought a very completely specified battery with only 1 stack of 14 working from an Amazon seller. It went to 6 v and stayed there if I tried to draw more than 100 W. I figured that out in 3 weeks with a DVM and got my money back. I bought a "sun e-bike" battery via e-bay from a warehouse in LA. I couldn't diagnose the failures because the battery would bounce back to 48 v after the display blanked out and the motor shut off. That one took me 3 months to haul the battery to a place where I could test it and prove that one wouldn't source 15 amps either, collapsing to 8 v then rebounding. ( probably most stacks were disconnected). Usual specification is 50 amps limit. So I didn't get my money back.
So the third battery I bought cost 2.2 times as much, and it worked fine: From Luna cycle in LA. Not a bargain, but a solid product. I don't know who else in the US to buy quality from but e-bike sales companies. The one you bought your bike from. In generic batteries, people in Canada say nice things about Grin Technologies of vancouver, and people on here have said nice things about EM3EV in Hong Kong. Other than that buyer beware.
Court has written an article about a battery rebuilder in Denver, see under the maintenance topic. But you have to haul your battery there in your car. You are not an authorized hazardous material shipper to use UPS, as far as I know.
Buying from anybody but the original bike manufacturer, you have to figure out what connector to the battery is on the bicycle, what connector is on the new battery, and make a transistion harness with the mates to both connectors. I am pretty good at that sort of quest being a physicist with 60 years electronic experience, but that may strain the skillset of many others.

 

[LewSchiller]

try hicbattery.com

 

[Alex M]

Don't believe anybody when it comes to battery lifespan. Nobody knows exactly. Yours could kick the bucket after 400 cycles or 800.

Battery refill ("reportedly reputable"):
https://www.hicbattery.com/
https://ebikemarketplace.com/collections/rebuilt-batteries

3rd party batteries - not Hibike specific, see for yourself if size/shape fits. Listed "approximately" in bang for the back order:
https://em3ev.com/shop/?prod_cat_=ebike-battery-parts
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
https://lunacycle.com/18650-ebike-battery-pack/

(the first 2 are shipped from China, batteries are cheaper than Luna but shipping costs could be higher than Luna that ships from the US. I think Luna batteries are still assembled in China, quality control and cells quality/brand is what matters).

I would avoid Amazon, Ebay and Aliexpress - too many unknown sources/sellers there.

 

[Volt_Ampere]

IMO Bargain batteries are very likely to be junk. Buy quality cells or buy a battery from a trusted vendor. With batteries you will have to bite the bullet and pay what good quality cells cost.

 

[Alex M]

There is a good chance that you'll be served same horse, only on different plates at different prices

The cheapest source on the list - bmsbattery.com - is 20-25% cheaper than em3ev (which is in turn 25-30% cheaper than Luna), and at $400 incl. shipping (with Panasonic cells) it is not really a 99 cents store bargain.

IIRC, Luna offer same warranty as bmsbattery, either one inferior to em3ev warranty.

Happy New Year!

 

[Quantum Leap]

Good morning!

I'd like to upgrade our Haibike and Liv Amiti batteries from 400Wh to 500Wh.

Even if we never upgrade, sooner or later we'll be replacing the existing batteries. From what I'm reading on the forum, after 500 cycles or so.

What sources have you guys found for e-bike batteries?

Rebuilt batteries make sense to me. Is anyone doing that? I wouldn't consider a rebuilt battery unless the rebuilder had a solid track record. A reputable rebuilder would use brand-new high quality cells. A disreputable rebuilder could load the battery up with used cells stripped out of dead laptop batteries.

If I were going the rebuild route I would probably opt to do it myself. Quality control in Lithium-Ion battery packs is everything. If you want to do two batteries it might be worth it. Although you will probably invest way more of your time than it is really worth.

I would more likely just pony up for new batteries from an authorized local retailer when the old ones are worn out, and enjoy the peace of mind that comes with a good warranty from a known entity that supports it. Maybe put $1 in a battery fund each time you charge, to pay for eventual replacements?

 

[Feliz]

As this sport/hobby grows batteries will be available at lower prices and probably at every LBS. I'm hoping for more standardization too but if what I see with my other hobby.....RC flying, is any indication I wouldn't count on it, there's a plethora of connectors, radio protocols, batteries, etc and that sport is 75 years old.

 

[Telkwa]

Thanks for the input, everyone!

I contacted the shop that sold me the Haibike. $1000 for a 500Wh battery that would replace the 400Wh battery. The Haibike is a 2017 model, with the same generic battery mount they used across all or most of their Yamaha drivetrain bikes. I wonder how much these fancy newer batteries, such as the Trek RIB models, will cost to replace?

I was already an 18650 enthusiast before we bought the e-bikes, so I know quality cells aren't cheap. At least not at the retail level. But still, that's a lot of coin to keep your e-bike going.

I see an ethics problem developing in the near future. Let's say you buy an e-bike. You ride it enough times that the battery has degraded noticeably. Now you want to sell it. Are you gonna sell the bike as-is and hope a clueless buyer doesn't ask any questions? As-is and tell the prospective buyer that the expensive battery is not long for this world? Or spend $1000 on a new battery so you can sell the bike for - I don't know - maybe $1500?

Wait, those aren't the only options. The seller could purchase an eBay/Amazon replacement and hope the battery works long enough to sell the bike to some poor sucker. If Indianajoe's experience is not atypical, that sounds like a risky move.

 

[Telkwa]

Hi, JayVee -

Glad to hear you're still rolling at 600 cycles. I just picked 500 cause I read that somewhere on the forum. I assure you, we're not gonna buy new ones until we've gotten our money's worth out of the old ones.

 

[Alex M]

The seller could purchase an eBay/Amazon replacement and hope the battery works long enough to sell the bike to some poor sucker. If Indianajoe's experience is not atypical, that sounds like a risky move.

Amazon battery will be toss a coin. But, if you are looking to dupe a buyer by installing a working (though possibly short-lasting) low-quality battery from Amazon, you might succeed.

I would not bother, unless you can't sell it for any price as is - with original old battery that barely runs (just enough to show that everything works), but needs replacement. Just tell honestly that it needs replacement, and inform him of 3rd party sources.

 

[Ebiker01]

One 18650 cell is cheap-about 2-3$ compared to the newer 21700cell-5$.
The Yamaha bat. Maybe has 35-38of those 18650 cells . So, it costs about 70-80$ for the cells really, 1000$ for the 500wh pack is a ridiculous price. I’m getting a 2nd bat. For my Easy motion but is a 600wh with the newer 21700 cells and it costs 750$.
I wouldn’t try to get away with selling the bike with a heavily used bat. when is time to sell it, karma will come back esp. now in the electric times. We are the guinea pigs now, and we pay for it...later it will get a lot cheaper. Just like the Plasma/Lcd Tv’s tech. a decade+ ago.

 

[tomjasz]

EM3ev