Upgrading to a larger battery. Trade in the new existing battery for a credit or just buy the new one and have two batteries?

[Ebiker01]

It was many times I asked you to not express uninformed disinformationohre read the threads where i thought

oh my, now you acting as a special(ized)clown.
Reread the threads where i taught you :what is Sql, high rpm cadence , and many other lessons.

Sorry but i have to block you from now on . Don't write on OP thread unless you present usefull info.
When i was riding my fist BH EVO with a 500wh in '14 you didn't even knew what's a torque sensor . In 2012 BH had 8-9models of ebikes.

Go sell your Giant ,put a few more thousands of € and buy their newer 720wh,12 speed Atom X .21700cells . B/c it is only 7.590euros.
That's why i post, b/c i'm in it from the early days ..

 

[Ebiker01]

stop trolling us @ 2am. pleae go ride your f....g bikes instead. Power OFF.

It is 01:59 a.m... You even do not seem to understand world time

Learning English is also recommended

 

[Ebiker01]

If you owned at least one Giant e-bike with integrated EnergyPak Smart battery, you would even not mention "48 V" or Ah. Giant e-bikes belong to completely different world that you seem not to understand yet.

Stop spreading false information.

There's nothing outer space about the giant batteries - it allows either the 400 /500 wh pack ,36v or 48 v .

But ,You could be a top salesman pushing for their batteries and ebikes.

Customer: Why should i buy a Giant ebike ?

Top Salesman S.M. :

"Giant e-bikes belong to completely different world that you seem not to understand yet."

Customer: Ok, i'll buy two please.

 

[Ebiker01]

almost completely sure EnergyPak Smart batteries are interchangeable.

not almost. It is 100%. That's why they are called "smart".

EnergyPak Battery Systems | Giant Bicycles US

Within Hybrid Cycling Technology we have two levels of battery technology—EnergyPak Smart and EnergyPak. We also offer the EnergyPak Plus range extender that helps prevent you from running out of power before reaching your destination.

www.giant-bicycles.com

And if you want out of this world tech here it is:

Digest it well , i leave thread alone now.

 

[Ebiker01]

@digtigs sorry for invading your thread , but a fan keeps following me wherever i post.

Imho, you should get either a Trek ,Specialized , BH ,Stromer, Yamaha, Gazelle, Harley Davidson (Serial 1) , Fuell ,Giant or any other premium ebike with at least a 600wh pack. And a 48 volts system. Enjoy the ebike freedom !

 

[Johnny]

If you owned at least one Giant e-bike with integrated EnergyPak Smart battery, you would even not mention "48 V" or Ah.

He is right about one thing, 48V is better than 36V in terms of efficiency. I don't see the point of these so called major players staying with 36V unless it is some compatibility(but they are not even interchangeable) or legal regulation(maybe this is the reason) problem.

 

[Dallant]

I will be purchasing a new 2020 Giant Explore E+4 that comes with a Giant EnergyPak 400, 36V 11.3Ah Rechargeable Lithium-Ion. I want to upgrade to the 500 watt battery during the purchase. I was told I had two choices. (1) Buy a new 500 watt battery for $550 and keep the existing battery. (2) Trade in the new 400 watt battery towards the 500 watt and receive a $250 credit.

Although a new battery (as such) for $250 seems like a good deal, my question is (especially during the winter months) will I potentially shorten the life of one or both batteries from lack of use? So Questions are:

1. Trade the 400 watt battery in for the 500 watt and save $250 on the price?
2. Spend the $550 on the new 500 watt battery, have two batteries, and rotate them for different bike rides?
3. Will having two batteries extend the life of both batteries because of fewer charge cycles or will they both die at about the same expected time as one?

For now I may only ride the bike 2 or 3 times a month depending on cold and snow conditions until spring.

Larry G.

Back on topic...
I ordered a second, larger (625wh) PowerTube battery before we bought a second Allant+7. It was specifically for longer touring and I have no regrets. PowerTubes are decidedly more expensive also.

 

[kmccune]

I think a lot of this answer is going to depend on how frequently you plan on going on trips long enough to where you need 2 batteries. Personally, my butt hurts just thinking about this potential.

The second is, knowing full well a battery that's just sitting unused isn't going to last much longer than one used frequently, I would ask myself if I were going to be riding frequently enough to keep the extra battery in use regularly.

Again personally, I would most likely opt for a single battery big enough where I could get through a day with it. My vote, FWIW.

I have to agree with you AHicks. it just doesn't seem like such a good idea to have a lot of stuff around a person does not need.
One consideration you may want to change bikes and the battery is not swappable to the new bike, another side of this-in three years newer battery tech may make what we have now seem to be boat anchors, at the end of the day a quarter of a thousand dollars is a quarter of a thousand dollars and these trips are consuming how much battery? Even on steep ground and hilly areas that old 82# beast I had wiould still have plenty of charge when I got home, it was 13 ah and it seemed to be plenty, of course I did use low pedal assist and pedaled a good bit which helps things. Numb hands and Butt dictates too how much time you can stay in the saddle.
In the end it is up to you, you will find the "sweetspot" when you do I believe you will surprise yourself on how far one battery would take you, FWIW my vote goes to the single big battery .

 

[steve mercier]

Thanks. And you got the 500 and it fit just the same as the 400 that came with your 2020 Explorer? i have assumed you are in the States not Canada?

The bike is an Explore 2 . It came with a 500 and we ordered another 500. I am in Canada

 

[Stefan Mikes]

He is right about one thing, 48V is better than 36V in terms of efficiency. I don't see the point of these so called major players staying with 36V unless it is some compatibility(but they are not even interchangeable) or legal regulation(maybe this is the reason) problem.

There's no legal reason for it. EU allows up to 48 V in regular e-bikes. (Besides, there is no "Class 1" in Europe; it is just "bike" that might be electrically assisted; and the L1e-B, a moped). I'm sure you will agree with me all major players use 36 V batteries though (and the motor manufacturers such as Bosch, Brose, Shimano, Yamaha, Mahle, etc, know what they are making and why). For this reason, they don't talk "Ah" but "Wh" because all of them refer to 36 V batteries and specifying the amount of available energy is more practical for comparison.

Now, I'm asking @Jim Conboy:

Do the battery contacts and the battery shape are the same in yours? Is your battery 17" long?

If yes for both, you are free to use the 500 or 625 Wh EnergyPak (Smart) as these are compatible. If not, you need to order the EnergyPak 400 as a spare.

 

[Johnny]

I'm sure you will agree with me all major players use 36 V batteries though (and the motor manufacturers such as Bosch, Brose, Shimano, Yamaha, Mahle, etc, know what they are making and why).

Yeah most of the major mid drive manufacturers use 36v but I don't think this decision is for the rider's benefit. If it is not a legal compliance then probably it is compatibility between different offerings so that they give bike manufacturers choice of mixing and matching or simply not having to deal with manufacturing different V batteries.

For this reason, they don't talk "Ah" but "Wh" because all of them refer to 36 V batteries and specifying the amount of available energy is more practical for comparison.

I think you miswrote this statement. Wh is the better measure but it is independent of the voltage, if everyone agreed on a fixed voltage and it was common knowledge then Ah would have been ok too.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I think you miswrote this statement. Wh is the better measure but it is independent of the voltage, if everyone agreed on a fixed voltage and it was common knowledge then Ah would have been ok too.

Wh is voltage independent, hence it is the better measure of what range you could expect from given e-bike. (I might be not very clear with my statement indeed).

Regarding the standardisation on 36 V, I'm sure the major e-bike motor companies know what they are doing.

When I read threads related to Chinese motors, I can see excited comments like: "This and that e-bike even has a voltmeter on the bars!" That's because those systems "think" in volts and ampere-hours, while the major systems just tell you the battery %, and give it precisely. (Besides, have you seen what the BLEvo app can tell you about your Spesh e-bike and about your ride?)

To stay on topic: I wonder if Jim's battery is interchangeable or not: Post #52

 

[Johnny]

Wh is voltage independent, hence it is the better measure of what range you could expect from given e-bike. (I might be not very clear with my statement indeed).

Regarding the standardisation on 36 V, I'm sure the major e-bike motor companies know what they are doing.

When I read threads related to Chinese motors, I can see excited comments like: "This and that e-bike even has a voltmeter on the bars!" That's because those systems "think" in volts and ampere-hours, while the major systems just tell you the battery %, and give it precisely. (Besides, have you seen what the BLEvo app can tell you about your Spesh e-bike and about your ride?)

To stay on topic: I wonder if Jim's battery is interchangeable or not: Post #52

We agree in using Wh to measure the stored energy.

I believe you are referring to those external wattmeters. Actually they give you more information about the input power and state of the battery than those simple battery level gauges. The percentage you see is not very precise, it is just an estimation of the remaining capacity wrt battery voltage. I prefer to be able to see the power output/ total energy spent rather than a simple gauge. It is not only in Chinese motors, all of the major motors have hardware to give you similar information though they don't make it available to the rider most of the time.

Regarding Jim's problem, Probably 400 and 500W packs are interchangeable since they have the same cell count and pattern. The 600w probably will not fit , more cells/different form factor. Of course he needs to check.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Regarding Jim's problem, Probably 400 and 500W packs are interchangeable since they have the same cell count and pattern. The 600w probably will not fit , more cells/different form factor. Of course he needs to check.

Not correct. The 500 and 625 ones are interchangeable. The only worrying thing is Jim's battery is side-loaded, and the 500s and 600s are bottom-insertable. Might mean nothing as long as the Jim's battery format is the same. That's why I have shown the photo and gave the battery length.

Regarding this...

Actually they give you more information about the input power and state of the battery than those simple battery level gauges.

"Simple battery level gauges"
As I said to Ebiker01, it is a completely different world.

 

[Johnny]

Not correct. The 500 and 625 ones are interchangeable. The only worrying thing is Jim's battery is side-loaded, and the 500s and 600s are bottom-insertable. Might mean nothing as long as the Jim's battery format is the same. That's why I have shown the photo and gave the battery length.

Are you sure ? He has a 2020 Explore E which comes with 400 or 500wh. Maybe I am mistaken but that is not even an in tube battery, the in tube one is the newest model. I don't even think they have a 600wh option for the 2020 one. Moreover I would be very surprised if Giant had the same form factor for 400wh 500wh to 625wh , that is a wide range. For the new in tube batteries they have 500 and 625wh (no 400wh) and those are interchangeable which makes sense, probably lower capacity one uses lower capacity cells but same cell count.

 

[pmcdonald]

Are you sure ? He has a 2020 Explore E which comes with 400 or 500wh. Maybe I am mistaken but that is not even an in tube battery, the in tube one is the newest model. I don't even think they have a 600wh option for the 2020 one. Moreover I would be very surprised if Giant had the same form factor for 400wh 500wh to 625wh , that is a wide range. For the new in tube batteries they have 500 and 625wh (no 400wh) and those are interchangeable which makes sense, probably lower capacity one uses lower capacity cells but same cell count.

My understanding was the 400 and 500 batteries side loading batteries are interchangeable on the Explore but that's it. Stefan's 625 battery design is quite different from my 2020 Explore battery.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Johnny... I own a 2020 Trance E+ and 500 and 625 EnergyPak. They should be interchangeable with the EnergyPak 400 but no-one can be sure before it is verified.
Just for reference, showing the pics of both batteries.

EnergyPak 500 & 625. They both measure 17" or 432 mm in length.

Stefan's 625 battery design is quite different from my 2020 Explore battery.

How come? Isn't your EnergyPak similar to the ones in the picture?

 

[pmcdonald]

Johnny... I own a 2020 Trance E+ and 500 and 625 EnergyPak. They should be interchangeable with the EnergyPak 400 but no-one can be sure before it is verified.
Just for reference, showing the pics of both batteries.

View attachment 72367
EnergyPak 500 & 625. They both measure 17" or 432 mm in length.


How come? Isn't your EnergyPak similar to the ones in the picture?

@Stefan Mikes you've shown us yours, here's mine:

500Wh battery from my 2020 Explore E+1. Since we're measuring 365mm tip to tip

 

[Johnny]

Johnny... I own a 2020 Trance E+

His bike is a 2020 Explore E+. I believe close to this model. https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/explore-eplus-4-gts

It doesn't really have an in tube battery, more like a case that seamlessly follows the frame.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

500Wh battery from my 2020 Explore E+1. Since we're measuring 365mm tip to tip

It means Jim can order the 500 Wh battery but in the format of your battery, Paul. Thanks!

more like a case that seamlessly follows the frame.

The larger format EnergyPaks also seamlessly insert into the frame. One of the best designs of the battery integration I could see so far.